[GeorgeSSS]

McLaren makes the 12C and will make the P1. Those two are brand consistent. The questions I pose to everyone are: Should McDaddy go down market into what seems to be P13 - 911 territory? Is that good or bad for the brand?

Volkswagon owns:
Bugatti
Bentley
Lamborghini
Porsche
Audi
Volkswagen
Skoda
(and some others at the bottom end)

They preserve each brand distinct.

What should McLaren do?

 

[roundincircles]

Are they going down the 911 territory? If it is priced at the Turbo level then they will be going down the 'let's make big money' territory. Porsche net profit per unit is £15,000, yes net profit. Just think about that. That's after all costs, overhead, fixed and product cost. It is driven by selling price, not cost, and unit volume.

So 4000 units or so in the upper 911 territory makes BIG money and the MPC profitable as it will cover a lot of overhead and fixed costs.

Additionally the 911 derivative will make the MP4-12C the halo, achievable aspiration, for the P13 owners. The P1 is left field for P13 wannabe's.

Brand wise, being the best in the chosen performance section, is what supports the Brand.

But what do I know? That's my take. Bring it on.

The Mk 2 MP4-12C will certainly have to be better and distance itself from the P13.

 

[widowmaker911]

Are they going down the 911 territory? If it is priced at the Turbo level then they will be going down the 'let's make big money' territory. Porsche net profit per unit is £15,000, yes net profit. Just think about that. That's after all costs, overhead, fixed and product cost. It is driven by selling price, not cost, and unit volume.

So 4000 units or so in the upper 911 territory makes BIG money and the MPC profitable as it will cover a lot of overhead and fixed costs.

Additionally the 911 derivative will make the MP4-12C the halo, achievable aspiration, for the P13 owners. The P1 is left field for P13 wannabe's.

Brand wise, being the best in the chosen performance section, is what supports the Brand.

But what do I know? That's my take. Bring it on.

The Mk 2 MP4-12C will certainly have to be better and distance itself from the P13.

991 GT3 is already 12C quick! McLaren will have all it can handle going up against the Turbo and all the practically it brings to the table. The Turbo is a bonafide DD plus some room for the little ones i use mine as such n is a wonderful weekender for a short 3-4 hr trip it is rock solid, I just luv it! 991 Turbo will be that much better, pegged to go against the 458 n 12C. It is n will continue to be a cash cow for Porsche. Could be the same result for McLaren if they do it right. 450-500hp rumored for P13 is gonna be tough unless they can keep the weight down. The turbo will be at about 550hp with all wheel drive, 4wheel steering, torque vectoring, etc to help it be a RING master! I myself can't wait for this epic battle to unfold. We will see if Ron can pull this one off
Your right about the mk2 12C having to go up the ladder nxt time

 

[LimeyBloke]

Porsche people expect built-in perfection. I bet they won't put up with the niggles McLarens seem to have; and the inability that McLaren has for quickly getting rid of them.
Then, there will be the issue of dealership service. There aren't enough dealers conveniently located and (face it) some of the dealers do not have top notch service from, my experience, and things that I've read here.

 

[M444TTB]

The dealer network is a good point. What's the arrangement with McLaren? Could the likes of Dick Lovett in the UK open a DL McLaren in the same way they have a Ferrari dealership?

Overall I think the idea of a three car range works for McLaren. I'd also assume the next 12C with be starting in the £200k region.

 

[Jerry]

Porsche people expect built-in perfection. I bet they won't put up with the niggles McLarens seem to have; and the inability that McLaren has for quickly getting rid of them.
Then, there will be the issue of dealership service. There aren't enough dealers conveniently located and (face it) some of the dealers do not have top notch service from, my experience, and things that I've read here.

I put up with as many, if not more, niggles on my last 911 Turbo as I have with the 12C. Porsche perfection is unfortunately a myth (I say this as a big Porsche fan, not a hater) and Porsche service is some of the worst I have ever experienced. In fact, it is probably the worst. McLaren may not be quick to get rid of the niggles but I feel that they care for their customer far more than Porsche ever did .... As usual, just my opinion.

 

[Osiris_x11]

991 GT3 is already 12C quick...

Which metrics are we speaking of: 0-60mph, 0-120mph, 0-150mph, 1/4mi, lap splits at notable racing-venues, etc...

And are we talking 991 911 GT3 or (forthcoming) GT3 RS?

 

[garyw]

I'd of thought that exclusivity has to come into it at some point, when I first went to Porsche as a brand they were quite exclusive, certainly not the case now but then again the profits are way up!!!
I don't think you can charge top money for a motor that is not exclusive.. and what the P13 will do to that I don't know..

Given a 12C or a GT3, the 12C wins from an exclusive point. the 12C attracts a crowd even at a cricuit, where the GT3 not quite so much, and there's a value to that

 

[LimeyBloke]

I put up with as many, if not more, niggles on my last 911 Turbo as I have with the 12C. Porsche perfection is unfortunately a myth (I say this as a big Porsche fan, not a hater) and Porsche service is some of the worst I have ever experienced. In fact, it is probably the worst. McLaren may not be quick to get rid of the niggles but I feel that they care for their customer far more than Porsche ever did .... As usual, just my opinion.

I suppose, like everything, it depends on the dealership. My cousin has had exemplary customer service from his Porsche dealer; so have other friends with their P. dealers.
I would not find much fault with McLaren's customer service, if they had not gone out of their way to hype the fact of 'a world class service experience'. My experience has not seen this, so far. (As I said, every dealership runs differently.)

I once tossed the following idea out to Ford Motor Company:
Since all manufacturers always tell you that their dealers are independent businesses and they cannot tell them how to run the operations ...... Why can't the manufacturer (in their contract with dealers) state: High level of customer complaints = 5% surcharge on parts ordered; Low level of complaints = 5% discount on parts ordered. Encourage high standards!
The bottom line is important to dealership owners, isn't it?

The actual vehicle, I find, is quite wonderful.

 

[TAG]

What McLaren needs is a vehicle, that's weigh in at a groundbreaking 2700 lbs. A design that's in size with a McLaren F1. Then the rest takes cares of itself. Period.

 

[isv]

Are they going down the 911 territory? If it is priced at the Turbo level then they will be going down the 'let's make big money' territory. Porsche net profit per unit is £15,000, yes net profit. Just think about that. That's after all costs, overhead, fixed and product cost. It is driven by selling price, not cost, and unit volume.

So 4000 units or so in the upper 911 territory makes BIG money and the MPC profitable as it will cover a lot of overhead and fixed costs.

Additionally the 911 derivative will make the MP4-12C the halo, achievable aspiration, for the P13 owners. The P1 is left field for P13 wannabe's.

Brand wise, being the best in the chosen performance section, is what supports the Brand.

But what do I know? That's my take. Bring it on.

The Mk 2 MP4-12C will certainly have to be better and distance itself from the P13.

Is the quoted profit per unit of 15k for the 911 or an average throughout the Porsche range?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAAABOU/HqwjblrTxaE/s455/Porsche+sales.JPG

Per above that someone had sent me not long ago, it seems to be across the range but I would definitely think that the cayenne and panamera account for the bulk of that unit profit compared to the 911/Boxster.

In terms of being able to spread out development costs, the P13 will be a good thing for Mclaren but only if they can successfully break into the 911 market. Shifting 4000 cars at turbo prices is not going to be easy at all and higher volumes I think is something Mclaren are going to need in order to continue the pace of tech development and not have their prices skyrocket.

 

[West Britannia]

2000-2500 p13

Porsche aims to build 7500-8000 991 turbo's a year. McLaren aims to build between 2000-2500 units a year. Last year Stuttgart sold about 6700 units of the 911 turbo.

 

[roundincircles]

Is the quoted profit per unit of 15k for the 911 or an average throughout the Porsche range?
[/QUOTE

Porsche aims to build 8000 991 turbo's a year. McLaren aims to build btw 2000-2500 units a year.

West Brittania. Indeed the £15000k net profit is across the whole range of Porsche which has an ex works selling price net of tax significantly below £100k ( probably closer to £70k in reality). An analyst found out that Porsche were paying for the Cayenne delivered delivered to works by VW and worked out the numbers. The Cayenne was 55% of sales at the time.

The point is that there is a very healthy margin, at low volumes, when selling price is north of £70k.

The P13 will surely compete with the higher end Porsche 911, fully specced, at £100k plus with an added premium for the Mclaren Brand. The Turbo 911 may be pushed into MP4-12C territory.

4000 units World wide will be a doddle as China, Russia, Middle East for school runs and Australia ( miners will not know what to do with their money) will eat the output.

 

[Osiris_x11]

The purported price-point of the P13 which has been alluded to being ~$160k'ish (namely 911 Turbo realm) isn't always occupied by prospective Porsche Turbo buyers. There's a plenty 'o clientele in that strata who are trolling around in California GTs & GranTurismos, Vantages & DB9s, R8s & XKs, SL AMGs & M6s, ZR1s & Vipers, and the like who would be keen towards being able to get in a near-exotic (whatever that may mean) w/o having to go $225k+.

Throw'in the novelty (and advantage) of a carbon-tub, McLaren pedigree, P1 trickle-down design language, Formula One DNA, possible hybrid/electric assist, and perhaps even flip'up doors D), prospective buyers have a lot to look forward from the boys (and girls) from Woking!

 

[SSO]

McLaren makes the 12C and will make the P1. Those two are brand consistent. The questions I pose to everyone are: Should McDaddy go down market into what seems to be P13 - 911 territory? Is that good or bad for the brand?

Volkswagon owns:
Bugatti
Bentley
Lamborghini
Porsche
Audi
Volkswagen
Skoda
(and some others at the bottom end)

They preserve each brand distinct.

What should McLaren do?

Long term it is critical to growing the brand.

Despite my own opinion on it, the California has been great for Ferrari and brought a whole new group of owners into the brand. For McLaren, the P13 will serve the same purpose.

 

[Ritesh]

991 GT3 is already 12C quick!

HAHAHAHA..... Sorry I started laughing at this comment and never read the rest of your post. Please step away from the Porsche Crack pipe Sir!

450-475 HP and more weight can't compete with a 12C. As a track package.. a GT3 *might* be better but saying it is as quick as a 12C is Ludicrous.

 

[andy c]

HAHAHAHA..... Sorry I started laughing at this comment and never read the rest of your post. Please step away from the Porsche Crack pipe Sir!

450-475 HP and more weight can't compete with a 12C. As a track package.. a GT3 *might* be better but saying it is as quick as a 12C is Ludicrous.

Maybe with a pro-driver? All i know was that i was all over a 997 gt3rs on the road,he had to let me past and then tried to follow.We stopped for a chat and he admitted he had no chance on country roads,but a track might be different!!

 

[extremeride22]

All of your comments make a lot of sense, but the key right now is resolving all of the current issues with our beautiful little putt putts. I'm hoping that they can before they release the up and coming hypercar aka P1. I can't imagine buying a car like that, in that price range and not having a proper Navi or for that matter a audio system that functions to perfection like the car itself. Are these little necessities things that I would be using, probably not, but why offer them if they don't work properly. So I guess we have a least another year before all of these little gremlins can be resolved once and for all, fingers crossed. Cheers.....??

 

[Champagne612]

I once tossed the following idea out to Ford Motor Company:
Since all manufacturers always tell you that their dealers are independent businesses and they cannot tell them how to run the operations ...... Why can't the manufacturer (in their contract with dealers) state: High level of customer complaints = 5% surcharge on parts ordered; Low level of complaints = 5% discount on parts ordered. Encourage high standards!
The bottom line is important to dealership owners, isn't it?

The actual vehicle, I find, is quite wonderful.

All dealers especially Porsche does offer a higher "rebate" to dealers that score high in customer service etc.

Manufactures are very aware of how the dealers are treating their customers.

There are point systems from every manufacturer and the higher the dealer scores determines the size of the owners private jet!

 

[widowmaker911]

HAHAHAHA..... Sorry I started laughing at this comment and never read the rest of your post. Please step away from the Porsche Crack pipe Sir!

450-475 HP and more weight can't compete with a 12C. As a track package.. a GT3 *might* be better but saying it is as quick as a 12C is Ludicrous.

OK maybe a stretch with a what the 12C (2013 not OEM tires though) just ran at PBIR.....but if P13 is going to go head to head with the 991 TURBO, P13 better be 2013 12C quick cause the new TURBO definitely will be if not quicker