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Discussion Starter #1
... you might want to respect it a little bit by running a tighter shop. An analogy: If you held an event, say a Cars & Coffee type of get together, specifically for your Porsche buddies - and some loud-mouth shows up talking about how Porsche cars are crap and the company's management is idiotic, etc., would you not kindly show him the door?

All these trolls hiding behind the tired, simpleton excuse that "I just have a different opinion, so I'm not a troll" and claiming they have no agenda, just like every other troll that has come before them, and all others that will come after them. While the forum, which was once a decent site, continues its decay as real McLaren owners and genuine fans of the company stop posting.

Why bother calling it McLarenLife at all? It should just change to a non-marque specific board, so the free for all is at least more relevant, if not justified. Seriously, I think the new owners of this forum need to decide - do you want this board to continue deteriorating so that it becomes a cess-pool like Ferrarichat.com, or do you want to respect the original owner's intent and the reason most of the original owners came here in the first place - which was intelligent debate with like-minded enthusiasts.

If the former, I would change the name of this forum. There is very little that goes on here that is representative of the rest of the McLaren ownership and fan experience (i.e. real McLaren "Life"), that's for sure. Food for thought and good day! :)
 

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6th I agree. This is an enthusiast site. And it's a great place for people who are enthused about McLaren to get together and chat. That seems to be it's self evident purpose.

I think it should be welcome to all who are interested and enthusiastic about the cars.

I think there should also be healthy debates, constructive criticism, and critical eyes about all things McLaren. But all that is in helping the primary purpose of being a site dedicated to enthusiasm for McLaren.

To use another analogy, if you had a house party and invited folks over, and they started telling you and each other how the house stinks, how the area is awful, how you overpaid, how the schools stink, how only an idiot would buy this place. All of it may be 100% true. But all of it is 100% ill mannered bile inappropriate to the occasion and forum. Now perhaps, some of those folks are really good friends, and some of those folks were asked to be critical, or some other context may make it appropriate to have those conversations, but people with good manners would do it deftly, and in a way that keeps the purpose of the overall occasion (enthusiasm for someones new home) in tact. Like, hey, you can do some great improve nets here and the resale value will sky rockets. Its always smartest to get the worst house in a good area to build it up and make a profit, thats smart. You're right to find a place where there aren't high taxes for the schools since you don't have kids. etc. etc. It really is a simple matter of manners.

Another analogy, your kids' recital at school. Someone may come in and say, these kids suck. They are not only terrible by professional standards, the kids in the next town are 100% better. All of which may be clearly and objectively true. Still, it's highly discourteous and inappropriate to the forum to say that. If the kids hear, and see the turmoil, they may just stop with the entire endeavor. It totally destroys the purpose of the event, despite being 100% true.

So these things are not cut and dry. There are grey lines all over the place. But generally, you should apply the golden rule here. Will a post you put up be something akin to crapping all over someone's house during a house warming party, or crapping about the abilities of someone's kid during a recital. Your post may be 100% correct and accurate. But you got to ask yourself, if you had that house warming party or it was your kid, would you appreciate that kind of truth in that occasion?

I think the forum's best weapon here is just to report someone you think went over the line and let the mods clear them out. They've cleared out a bunch, and things have improved, and if the current folks can't grasp the above concepts, I'm with you in having them shown the door.

Doom, to your question. Huyara is clearly over the above line, IMO; his posts are designed to be antagonistic, IMO. As always, YMMV.
 

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6th I agree. This is an enthusiast site. And it's a great place for people who are enthused about McLaren to get together and chat. That seems to be it's self evident purpose.

I think it should be welcome to all who are interested and enthusiastic about the cars.

I think there should also be healthy debates, constructive criticism, and critical eyes about all things McLaren. But all that is in helping the primary purpose of being a site dedicated to enthusiasm for McLaren.

To use another analogy, if you had a house party and invited folks over, and they started telling you and each other how the house stinks, how the area is awful, how you overpaid, how the schools stink, how only an idiot would buy this place. All of it may be 100% true. But all of it is 100% ill mannered bile inappropriate to the occasion and forum. Now perhaps, some of those folks are really good friends, and some of those folks were asked to be critical, or some other context may make it appropriate to have those conversations, but people with good manners would do it deftly, and in a way that keeps the purpose of the overall occasion (enthusiasm for someones new home) in tact. Like, hey, you can do some great improve nets here and the resale value will sky rockets. Its always smartest to get the worst house in a good area to build it up and make a profit, thats smart. You're right to find a place where there aren't high taxes for the schools since you don't have kids. etc. etc. It really is a simple matter of manners.

Another analogy, your kids' recital at school. Someone may come in and say, these kids suck. They are not only terrible by professional standards, the kids in the next town are 100% better. All of which may be clearly and objectively true. Still, it's highly discourteous and inappropriate to the forum to say that. If the kids hear, and see the turmoil, they may just stop with the entire endeavor. It totally destroys the purpose of the event, despite being 100% true.

So these things are not cut and dry. There are grey lines all over the place. But generally, you should apply the golden rule here. Will a post you put up be something akin to crapping all over someone's house during a house warming party, or crapping about the abilities of someone's kid during a recital. Your post may be 100% correct and accurate. But you got to ask yourself, if you had that house warming party or it was your kid, would you appreciate that kind of truth in that occasion?

I think the forum's best weapon here is just to report someone you think went over the line and let the mods clear them out. They've cleared out a bunch, and things have improved, and if the current folks can't grasp the above concepts, I'm with you in having them shown the door.

Doom, to your question. Huyara is clearly over the above line, IMO; his posts are designed to be antagonistic, IMO. As always, YMMV.
You're spot on here John in my opinion... a lot of stuff that has been put on here recently is factually correct and logically sound. It's a matter of presentation and some stuff is designed to antagonize. It's going to happen and almost impossible to stop... probably relatively immature behaviour but c'est la vie... thankfully it doesn't take too long to move on a next post and hopefully find some banter. Also I think we would have to be honest and say is it the post is annoying that's the irritating thing are the fact that there is possibly more than a grain of truth in it...
 

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You're spot on here John in my opinion... a lot of stuff that has been put on here recently is factually correct and logically sound. It's a matter of presentation and some stuff is designed to antagonize. It's going to happen and almost impossible to stop... probably relatively immature behaviour but c'est la vie... thankfully it doesn't take too long to move on a next post and hopefully find some banter. Also I think we would have to be honest and say is it the post is annoying that's the irritating thing are the fact that there is possibly more than a grain of truth in it...
Agreed Mikey. And every good and bad revolution/brain washing uses the truth as a lever. It's a selective truth, not the entire truth, but a truth nonetheless.
 

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... you might want to respect it a little bit by running a tighter shop. An analogy: If you held an event, say a Cars & Coffee type of get together, specifically for your Porsche buddies - and some loud-mouth shows up talking about how Porsche cars are crap and the company's management is idiotic, etc., would you not kindly show him the door?

All these trolls hiding behind the tired, simpleton excuse that "I just have a different opinion, so I'm not a troll" and claiming they have no agenda, just like every other troll that has come before them, and all others that will come after them. While the forum, which was once a decent site, continues its decay as real McLaren owners and genuine fans of the company stop posting.

Why bother calling it McLarenLife at all? It should just change to a non-marque specific board, so the free for all is at least more relevant, if not justified. Seriously, I think the new owners of this forum need to decide - do you want this board to continue deteriorating so that it becomes a cess-pool like Ferrarichat.com, or do you want to respect the original owner's intent and the reason most of the original owners came here in the first place - which was intelligent debate with like-minded enthusiasts.

If the former, I would change the name of this forum. There is very little that goes on here that is representative of the rest of the McLaren ownership and fan experience (i.e. real McLaren "Life"), that's for sure. Food for thought and good day! :)
I would kindly show him the door!

But the last time I went there that it was erased ... so good luck with the above.

If the next time I logged in it showed "banned' it would be no surprise and fine as this place has become ... no joy.
 

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Name them please , very interested .
CarMeister is one - look at the history of his posts.

Just prior to his latest adventures here he posted on another forum in response to the story of McLaren not releasing a lap time (paraphrasing here) that the 918 was still the best despite all claims to the contrary about the P1 from McLaren fanboys and that he was going to have some fun with this onel! :D

His posts add nothing of value to the discussions here on McLarenLife - he is in it simply for his own personal amusement. That is the very definition of trolling.

>8^)
ER
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You're spot on here John in my opinion... a lot of stuff that has been put on here recently is factually correct and logically sound. It's a matter of presentation and some stuff is designed to antagonize. It's going to happen and almost impossible to stop... probably relatively immature behaviour but c'est la vie... thankfully it doesn't take too long to move on a next post and hopefully find some banter. Also I think we would have to be honest and say is it the post is annoying that's the irritating thing are the fact that there is possibly more than a grain of truth in it...
Mikey, a proactive approach can make a big difference. The reason these guys keep coming back is because they know that they can simply sign up with a different user name and get a good run of 20 inflammatory posts in before anybody does anything about it. Meanwhile, Joe Owner that logs in once every few days comes in and finds a heap of sh!t to wade through, just to see if the P1 has posted a lap time, or whatever. No wonder he leaves without saying a word. What a great site it might be if a good percentage of the P1 buyers joined and shared their experiences of spec'ing, taking delivery, driving and owing this once in a lifetime car. Sadly, I doubt that is going to happen as the last thing I would want to do if I was a P1 owner, is read pig in a poke BS from a douchebag like Huayra. If there were published posting guidelines and more active moderation, you'd be surprised at the difference. McLaren does not officially sanction this site. The only thing that made it special is that a good number of early 12C owners found it and started to convene. If they leave, then it's just another crappy car forum. They'll be five more McLaren forums within the next year or two, guaranteed. So, that's why I put it to the site owners.
 

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Mikey, a proactive approach can make a big difference. The reason these guys keep coming back is because they know that they can simply sign up with a different user name and get a good run of 20 inflammatory posts in before anybody does anything about it. Meanwhile, Joe Owner that logs in once every few days comes in and finds a heap of sh!t to wade through, just to see if the P1 has posted a lap time, or whatever. No wonder he leaves without saying a word. What a great site it might be if a good percentage of the P1 buyers joined and shared their experiences of spec'ing, taking delivery, driving and owing this once in a lifetime car. Sadly, I doubt that is going to happen as the last thing I would want to do if I was a P1 owner, is read pig in a poke BS from a douchebag like Huayra. If there were published posting guidelines and more active moderation, you'd be surprised at the difference. McLaren does not officially sanction this site. The only thing that made it special is that a good number of early 12C owners found it and started to convene. If they leave, then it's just another crappy car forum. They'll be five more McLaren forums within the next year or two, guaranteed. So, that's why I put it to the site owners.
Fair point 6th... I just wonder if that will ever happen. It's irritating I couldn't agree more, but equally if a better than 7 was proven there would be no conversation. Sadly I have no experience of moderation outside this forum, so can't speak from experience where I have seen it be more effective. This place thankfully is still a great place to be for owners, I for one won't give up because of some slightly irritating and tiring behaviour. Most of what is put up is interesting and more often than not entertaining.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Fair point 6th... I just wonder if that will ever happen. It's irritating I couldn't agree more, but equally if a better than 7 was proven there would be no conversation. Sadly I have no experience of moderation outside this forum, so can't speak from experience where I have seen it be more effective. This place thankfully is still a great place to be for owners, I for one won't give up because of some slightly irritating and tiring behaviour. Most of what is put up is interesting and more often than not entertaining.
I have moderated sites in the past, and also been a member of sites that were well moderated. It doesn't take much, just a daily surveillance of activity. The trolling activity is easily spotted because there is always a flurry of posts in the thread that have quickly descended into name calling and the like. Most of the time, banning users or closing or removing the thread is not even required. Rather a gentle reminder to participants to keep things civil. Now that this site has been absorbed into a larger network of forums, across which they are selling advertising, they should invest some resources in more active moderation. Again, you'd be surprised at how quickly the trolls give up and better still, how insightful people that never bothered to post before start coming out of the woodwork to share their thoughts, positive and negative.
 

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The Huayra account is now banned ( permanently? ) and his purposefully antagonistic 'pig' thread appears to have been deleted. No idea if he was the reincarnation of a previously banned user, but it is pretty simple to mask your IP when posting on a message forum.

>8^)
ER
 

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The Huayra account is now banned ( permanently? ) and his purposefully antagonistic 'pig' thread appears to have been deleted. No idea if he was the reincarnation of a previously banned user, but it is pretty simple to mask your IP when posting on a message forum.

>8^)
ER
Could you please pm me the stuff you mentioned on the other forum ?
You know regarding the fact that he was coming here to basically cause trouble .
Thanks
 

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It's a private forum, hence my lack of simply linking to the post for all to see.

>8^)
ER
 

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Mikey, a proactive approach can make a big difference. The reason these guys keep coming back is because they know that they can simply sign up with a different user name and get a good run of 20 inflammatory posts in before anybody does anything about it. Meanwhile, Joe Owner that logs in once every few days comes in and finds a heap of sh!t to wade through, just to see if the P1 has posted a lap time, or whatever. No wonder he leaves without saying a word. What a great site it might be if a good percentage of the P1 buyers joined and shared their experiences of spec'ing, taking delivery, driving and owing this once in a lifetime car. Sadly, I doubt that is going to happen as the last thing I would want to do if I was a P1 owner, is read pig in a poke BS from a douchebag like Huayra. If there were published posting guidelines and more active moderation, you'd be surprised at the difference. McLaren does not officially sanction this site. The only thing that made it special is that a good number of early 12C owners found it and started to convene. If they leave, then it's just another crappy car forum. They'll be five more McLaren forums within the next year or two, guaranteed. So, that's why I put it to the site owners.
Usually I try not to get involved with the politics of a forum but hell why not...

With all due respect, i think you and a few others tend to take any criticism of Mclaren way too personally. There has been a good amount of silliness and baiting going on which clearly is tiring but that has also happened on both sides of the fence where some not unjustified criticism of Mclaren has triggered some fairly unbelieveable responses as well.

For what it's worth I'm glad of the diversity of opinions and discussion amongst majority of the more considered posters/owners here and not that everyone here is simply a Mclaren shill toeing the party line where Ron can do no wrong.
 

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I would suggest more active moderation and clear posting guidelines. Other sites that I have been apart of have more moderation and trolls are dealt with quickly.

I personally love this site even though I don't contribute much. I don't like the McLaren bashing that goes on at times. But all car companies can do things better. As a fan and former Corvette owner, there was lots of criticism on all the sites I belong to of the new models as they came out.
At least with the vette, I had a frame of reference. I don't know what the shortcomings are of the 12C other than what I read here.

I expect the site to grow over the next few years as the P1 and P13 owners find the site.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Usually I try not to get involved with the politics of a forum but hell why not...

With all due respect, i think you and a few others tend to take any criticism of Mclaren way too personally. There has been a good amount of silliness and baiting going on which clearly is tiring but that has also happened on both sides of the fence where some not unjustified criticism of Mclaren has triggered some fairly unbelieveable responses as well.

For what it's worth I'm glad of the diversity of opinions and discussion amongst majority of the more considered posters/owners here and not that everyone here is simply a Mclaren shill toeing the party line where Ron can do no wrong.
Again, my friend, it's not about taking things personally. It's about logging into a community that some others are treating as a personal latrine. If users like widow, citlylad and Huayra actually add value to your experience here, then we obviously see things a little bit differently.

This 'toeing the party line' and everybody 'kissing Ron's anus' insinuation is also very tired. Can members not appreciate some of the amazing things that McLaren has done, without being labelled as a shill? C'mon, that's old. You know we all have our individual complaints about the car and company, many of which expressed legitimately on this forum. Maybe if there was some moderation, any at all in fact, then many members wouldn't feel the need to big up Ron and McLaren to counter the senseless bashing of the company and its employees and products.

I'm not asking for a lot; just some proactive effort to keep conversations moving constructively instead of having these constant flame-ups initiated by some degenerate people saying stupid sh!t that they would never say to somebody in a real life meeting.

So go ahead, CRITICIZE MCLAREN - FOR THE LAST TIME THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE. Just do it like an adult, not some 5 year old who can't hold a conversation without it turning into "I know you are, but what am I..." or "my Dad's willy is longer than your Dad's".
 
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