[Bridster]

Wait...what? How? Why?
I've had girlfriends tease less than you bro...

The power figure is a bit of a mess.

Initially the target was 650 "hp". Then, once they revealed the car, the engine was to have 654hp or 663PS. That is the most widely accepted and reported figure. However, some time after that they said the engine now makes 669PS (probably the 670 "hp" they are talking about). BUT, if you look at their website, it currently says 650PS (and the 615PS the T.33 was supposed to have, has now gone down to 600PS).

The reason for that is probably the ISG and the fan. The fan normally draws 8.5kW (12PS) and the IGS is capable of drawing (or supplying) 20kW (27PS). Normally you report the engine power with all the parasitic losses that come from powering pumps or alternators or whatever included, but it seems that the ISG (Integrated Starter Generator) - which they use instead of a normal starter/alternator - is not included in that. But, you still need some electrical power to power the ignition and all the electronics, and the fan, so there will be some parasitic loss. So if the engine made 669PS and then you deducted the 12PS that the fan takes and maybe another 7PS for other stuff, you would be at 650PS. However, the fan doesn't necessarily run all the time, so maybe you generally have more like 662PS.

Then, to make it a bit more complicated, the car also has a relatively large 48V battery that can power the fan and the ISG for a limited amount of time. From what they said about the weight of the battery, it's probably around 0.25kWh or something like that. That would allow you to run the fan for just under 2 minutes. In addition, you can also have the ISG draw power from the battery, which would give you additional 27PS - so around 697PS in total - for about 30 seconds.

Lastly, to make it even more complicated, the car can get a bit more power from ram air effect. Basically, the faster you go, the higher the pressure in the intake is and you can force in more air into the engine each stroke and make more power. So add that to the 697PS you can make in "Vmax mode" with the ISG running on battery and helping you, and you might be at 700PS+ at high speeds.

Well, at least that's my best guess at how that works, we still haven't been told the details.

 

[Zeus]

The power figure is a bit of a mess.

Initially the target was 650 "hp". Then, once they revealed the car, the engine was to have 654hp or 663PS. That is the most widely accepted and reported figure. However, some time after that they said the engine now makes 669PS (probably the 670 "hp" they are talking about). BUT, if you look at their website, it currently says 650PS (and the 615PS the T.33 was supposed to have, has now gone down to 600PS).

The reason for that is probably the ISG and the fan. The fan normally draws 8.5kW (12PS) and the IGS is capable of drawing (or supplying) 20kW (27PS). Normally you report the engine power with all the parasitic losses that come from powering pumps or alternators or whatever included, but it seems that the ISG (Integrated Starter Generator) - which they use instead of a normal starter/alternator - is not included in that. But, you still need some electrical power to power the ignition and all the electronics, and the fan, so there will be some parasitic loss. So if the engine made 669PS and then you deducted the 12PS that the fan takes and maybe another 7PS for other stuff, you would be at 650PS. However, the fan doesn't necessarily run all the time, so maybe you generally have more like 662PS.

Then, to make it a bit more complicated, the car also has a relatively large 48V battery that can power the fan and the ISG for a limited amount of time. From what they said about the weight of the battery, it's probably around 0.25kWh or something like that. That would allow you to run the fan for just under 2 minutes. In addition, you can also have the ISG draw power from the battery, which would give you additional 27PS - so around 697PS in total - for about 30 seconds.

Lastly, to make it even more complicated, the car can get a bit more power from ram air effect. Basically, the faster you go, the higher the pressure in the intake is and you can force in more air into the engine each stroke and make more power. So add that to the 697PS you can make in "Vmax mode" with the ISG running on battery and helping you, and you might be at 700PS+ at high speeds.

Well, at least that's my best guess at how that works, we still haven't been told the details.

Good post. So do we know if the ISG provides torque fill to the V12 some of the time, all of the time or not at all?

 

[TougeSpirit]

Good post. So do we know if the ISG provides torque fill to the V12 some of the time, all of the time or not at all?

Not at all. It only provides power in VMAX mode

 

[Zeus]

Not at all. It only provides power in VMAX mode

Wierd...you'd only have full power for about 30 seconds then?

 

[TougeSpirit]

Wierd...you'd only have full power for about 30 seconds then?

From the GMA site

In full V-Max Boost mode the system reduces drag to a minimum and, uses the car’s 48 volt starter-generator to drive the fan which frees up power, allowing a swift burst of boost up to 700 PS for short periods of maximum acceleration.

 

[Zeus]

Now that we all know how loud the Valkryie is inside, is there any concern the T.50 will suffer the same fate? I've watched nearly all the videos on GMA's YouTube channel, and while it does sound a little more quiet, how is Gordon and his team managing this? I take it the T.50 must have some kind of sound deadening, but why would you if you were chasing every gram of weight savings?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Now that we all know how loud the Valkryie is inside, is there any concern the T.50 will suffer the same fate? I've watched nearly all the videos on GMA's YouTube channel, and while it does sound a little more quiet, how is Gordon and his team managing this? I take it the T.50 must have some kind of sound deadening, but why would you if you were chasing every gram of weight savings?

They've done a few videos driving/talking in the cabin and it seemed to be a nice place to sit and even chat. Gordon's philosophy couldn't be more different. He actually wants to make the best ROAD car, one youd actually want to drive on the road.

 

[TougeSpirit]

Now that we all know how loud the Valkryie is inside, is there any concern the T.50 will suffer the same fate? I've watched nearly all the videos on GMA's YouTube channel, and while it does sound a little more quiet, how is Gordon and his team managing this? I take it the T.50 must have some kind of sound deadening, but why would you if you were chasing every gram of weight savings?

For one, the engine is semi structural from the get go. So there's bushings in there to keep some of the vibration down. The transmission also is significantly different, both the manual and the T.50s IGS trans. PS4s tire is going to be quieter than Cup 2. Drag of T.50s is likely lower, less wind noise. The only thing that would be louder would be the fan. But that's as far away from the driver as it could be

 

[Bridster]

Now that we all know how loud the Valkryie is inside, is there any concern the T.50 will suffer the same fate? I've watched nearly all the videos on GMA's YouTube channel, and while it does sound a little more quiet, how is Gordon and his team managing this? I take it the T.50 must have some kind of sound deadening, but why would you if you were chasing every gram of weight savings?

One of the big reasons the Valkyrie is so loud, is that the engine is fully structural and bolted straight to the chassis. They probably also don't use any sound deadening, but it wouldn't probably be too effective anyway for that reason. The engine itself, on the Valkyrie or the T.50, isn't, I'd imagine, any louder that any other engine.

The T.50 has the engine only semi-structurally mounted, so they can still use some rubber or whatever to isolate it - and isolate the noise. Probably much more sound deadening used as well. That said, the car didn't seem that quiet. Especially the gearbox whine is ever-present. Not sure yet if that was because the cars we've seen were prototypes and didn't have sound deadening fitted (that was the case for the early ones), or if that's how the car is gonna be in its production guise. I do hope that the noise is lessened somewhat, since the car being very usable and streetable is one of its main selling points.

 

[Zeus]

For one, the engine is semi structural from the get go. So there's bushings in there to keep some of the vibration down. The transmission also is significantly different, both the manual and the T.50s IGS trans. PS4s tire is going to be quieter than Cup 2. Drag of T.50s is likely lower, less wind noise. The only thing that would be louder would be the fan. But that's as far away from the driver as it could be

Thank you.

I tried to find out how many quarts of oil the engine took, but the link on their site seems off. Do you happen to know? Just curious...

 

[Bridster]

Thank you.

I tried to find out how many quarts of oil the engine took, but the link on their site seems off. Do you happen to know? Just curious...

14L ☝

 

[Zeus]

14L ☝

That can't be correct... So, 14.8 quarts? Are you sure? We're talking engine oil capacity...right? My former Hellcat Redeye with a supercharged 6.2L V8 was 7 quarts.

 

[Bridster]

That can't be correct... So, 14.8 quarts? Are you sure? We're talking engine oil capacity...right? My former Hellcat Redeye with a supercharged 6.2L V8 was 7 quarts.

I am not just sure, I am cocksure!

14L comes straight from GMA's data sheet. The big V12s use a lot of oil - and also dry sump engines usually hold more oil. The Aventador engine is 15L, the 812 Superfast is 13.2L. The GMA V12 is not as big, but they also use more of the oil for cooling than on a normal engine.

 

[Zeus]

I am not just sure, I am cocksure!

14L comes straight from GMA's data sheet. The big V12s use a lot of oil - and also dry sump engines usually hold more oil. The Aventador engine is 15L, the 812 Superfast is 13.2L. The GMA V12 is not as big, but they also use more of the oil for cooling than on a normal engine.

Thanks for the clarification! Wow...just wow, what an engine.

I was told by a car mechanic much smarter than me years ago that a car's engine oil capacity was a discreet yet sure sign of a well engineered engine's lubrication and cooling system, especially when it comes to efficiency and longevity.

This thing is awesome. Thanks again.

 

[A West]

The engine itself, on the Valkyrie or the T.50, isn't, I'd imagine, any louder that any other engine.

not louder than any other engine revving to 11 or 12k

 

[ChrisK1982]

not louder than any other engine revving to 11 or 12k

… it’s always good to be in a class of your own … esp if someone wants to compare you to someone else … 😉

 

[Bridster]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1635652041639882753

Assembly should be 5 weeks, so we should see first cars in April.

 

[eMcL]

Gordon Murray Automotive T50: V12 supercar enters production | Autocar

“Purest, lightest supercar ever built” has a 650bhp atmospheric V12 and a three-seat carbonfibre cabin

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[gsxrian]

I think i would rather have a dedicated track car, than these 'compromised' street cars.

http://www.artandrevs.com/car.php?id=621

 

[Chimaera]

I was wondering if there would be any service centers outside the UK. Not only the cars seem great but also the company and the vision it self. I'm also really curious what project 3 (after the 300 T.33s) is going to be.

With just 100 units planned for production, most of you are probably asking yourself who is going to provide maintenance and warranty services for the supercar. Gordon Murray Automotive says it is establishing a network of five global service centers, located in the US (East and West coasts), UK, Japan, and Abu Dhabi that will cover those tasks.

These centers will be staffed with maintenance and service expert technicians trained by GMA to work and repair the T.50. In addition, Gordon Murray Automotive works on a network of 14 support centers around the globe, including Germany, Spain, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Australia, and others. Further six centers will be established in key states around the US.

Gordon Murray Automotive Produces First T.50 Supercar

Gordon Murray Automotive says it is establishing a network of five global service centers, located in the US (East and West coasts), UK, Japan, and Abu Dhabi.

www.motor1.com