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2200 lbs is insane. The V12 has to weigh around 550lbs (without a tranny) even if it's relatively small displacement, right? The transmission probably weighs, what, say another 250lbs. So say around 800lbs for just engine/transmission. That leaves 1400lbs for the rest. The car is probably 100% carbon fiber at that point. But even then, man, that's tight.

I think the new mazda miata is 2600lbs. It's engine and transmission is say half the weight, that still leaves that tiny car at 2200lbs.
 

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2200 lbs is insane. The V12 has to weigh around 550lbs (without a tranny) even if it's relatively small displacement, right? The transmission probably weighs, what, say another 250lbs. So say around 800lbs for just engine/transmission. That leaves 1400lbs for the rest. The car is probably 100% carbon fiber at that point. But even then, man, that's tight.

I think the new mazda miata is 2600lbs. It's engine and transmission is say half the weight, that still leaves that tiny car at 2200lbs.
But as you know vaporware is lighter than air ….
>:)
 

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2200 lbs is insane. The V12 has to weigh around 550lbs (without a tranny) even if it's relatively small displacement, right? The transmission probably weighs, what, say another 250lbs. So say around 800lbs for just engine/transmission. That leaves 1400lbs for the rest. The car is probably 100% carbon fiber at that point. But even then, man, that's tight.

I think the new mazda miata is 2600lbs. It's engine and transmission is say half the weight, that still leaves that tiny car at 2200lbs.
A manual gearbox shouldn't weigh much if any more than 150lbs even if comes with a limited slip diff.

imo 2200lbs in a modern road car with a v12 just isn't going to happen. full stop. no matter what GM says.
 

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2200 lbs is insane. The V12 has to weigh around 550lbs (without a tranny) even if it's relatively small displacement, right? The transmission probably weighs, what, say another 250lbs. So say around 800lbs for just engine/transmission. That leaves 1400lbs for the rest. The car is probably 100% carbon fiber at that point. But even then, man, that's tight.

I think the new mazda miata is 2600lbs. It's engine and transmission is say half the weight, that still leaves that tiny car at 2200lbs.
But as you know vaporware is lighter than air ….
<img src="http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/images/MclarenLife_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />
True, but this is someone with lots of experience and credibility. If they get close, it's going to be something special.
 

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True, but this is someone with lots of experience and credibility. If they get close, it's going to be something special.
I might become a pariah saying this but.... that was the case about 20 years ago. I'm not sure that's still the case today. The istream manufacturing process hasn't really come to anything and while he has produced a fair number of car concepts, nothing has even come close to fruition. Now I accept that the seemingly endless delays with TVR might have little to nothing to do with GMD but it's the biggest scale project GMD has been involved with and the lack of progres on the TVR doesn't exactly inspire any confidence that GM is going to be able to actually produce any of the mid engine cars shown to the automotive press nevermind meet the claimed specs.
 

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True, but this is someone with lots of experience and credibility. If they get close, it's going to be something special.
I might become a pariah saying this but.... that was the case about 20 years ago. I'm not sure that's still the case today. The istream manufacturing process hasn't really come to anything and while he has produced a fair number of car concepts, nothing has even come close to fruition. Now I accept that the seemingly endless delays with TVR might have little to nothing to do with GMD but it's the biggest scale project GMD has been involved with and the lack of progres on the TVR doesn't exactly inspire any confidence that GM is going to be able to actually produce any of the mid engine cars shown to the automotive press nevermind meet the claimed specs.
Gordon Murray with Ron Dennis might get something done ……. separated its a dream. Focus on selling books and retirement
0:)
 

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2012 MP4-12C
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A manual gearbox shouldn't weigh much if any more than 150lbs even if comes with a limited slip diff.

imo 2200lbs in a modern road car with a v12 just isn't going to happen. full stop. no matter what GM says.
Ok let's say he gets the engine and transmission down to 650lbs, that still leaves 1550 for the rest of the car. That is still mighty mighty small/tiny, and yet it's a 3 seater!?!? The original F1 was 2,500lbs curb. So shaving another 300lbs with all the advances since then, is within the realm of possibility, but with all the new regulations, I'm not sure it's possible. Perhaps it will be a 'track only' car?

All I can say is, regardless, I'm rooting for him!

That also said, this thing sounds like it's destined to be priced as unobtanium.
 

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The original F1 was miata-sized. The second and third "seats" are surprisingly comfortable but they're not exactly seats, more like nooks where you can wedge your body in.

You could definitely cut from the F1. Erik could give us some good figures, but the GTRs cut at least a couple hundred pounds to start. A race car isn't exactly a great comparison, but depending on who GM gets to build it, it could be pretty kit-car-ish, e.g. ultima, hennesy venom.

Modern amenities like carbon ceramics or lighter rims wouldn't save that much weight because the F1 didn't have huge wheels or brakes to begin with. You could ditch the kenwood audio, all the compartments for the fitted luggage, trade 4 rearview mirrors for 2 cameras, and scrape all that heavy gold foil... but again there's only so much. I imagine savings would come down to a lighter overall structure due to better carbon tech and component design.

But most likely, the designer specs are always off by at least 10% (the F1's was), and voila 2,200 lbs turns into 2,420 rounded to 2,500lbs aka 2,700lbs curb DIN wet weight. ;) Which is right around the time when you ask BMW to crank up the power a little bit on the V12 and then you have a winner on your hands.
 

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I might become a pariah saying this but.... that was the case about 20 years ago. I'm not sure that's still the case today. The istream manufacturing process hasn't really come to anything and while he has produced a fair number of car concepts, nothing has even come close to fruition. Now I accept that the seemingly endless delays with TVR might have little to nothing to do with GMD but it's the biggest scale project GMD has been involved with and the lack of progres on the TVR doesn't exactly inspire any confidence that GM is going to be able to actually produce any of the mid engine cars shown to the automotive press nevermind meet the claimed specs.
All the claimed specs for Gordon's new car are looking feasible. ;)
 

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Ok let's say he gets the engine and transmission down to 650lbs, that still leaves 1550 for the rest of the car. That is still mighty mighty small/tiny, and yet it's a 3 seater!?!? The original F1 was 2,500lbs curb. So shaving another 300lbs with all the advances since then, is within the realm of possibility, but with all the new regulations, I'm not sure it's possible. Perhaps it will be a 'track only' car?

All I can say is, regardless, I'm rooting for him!

That also said, this thing sounds like it's destined to be priced as unobtanium.
Isn't the Valkyrie around 2200 lbs? That's including an electric motor/battery, a large V12, etc
 

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Feasible specs are one thing - do you believe that GMD are going to actually be able to bring this projected car to production?
I meant technically feasible. The most complicated and expensive part of the project, the drive-train, has been confirmed by the suppliers in terms of performance, weight and dimensions. His team have calculated the total weight of all the parts. I don't think there is any question about whether GM knows how to design a chassis or an aerodynamic package. In other words, what he has said he intends to offer he would actually be able to offer.

Commercial feasibility is a separate question, on which by coincidence I expect to get more illumination today. I hope the car happens: the concept is far more inspiring than yet more over-powered hybrid eyesores from companies trying to contrive "halo" products because the rest of their products hold no interest.
 
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