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I got my Evo though the post this morning. Full 32 pages of comparative tests...

12C gets good review, but....1 second slower around Bedford than the 458....

Out of the 5 reviewers not one placed the 12C top....
 

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Truly, it starts to give the feeling that McLaren pays a bit their marketing arrogance.
Like it would be disturbing for a journalist to write "yes they were right it is the best car", it become a bit trendy to make the buzz to tell the Ferrari is still well there.

Personally i don't care, as i never got into the Ferrari thing, never got and will never get one, but well i really think all these test starts to stink a bit some complete lack of objectivity.
 

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Slower than the 458 around bedford is really shocking after all the specs, reports, claims etc..
Ron said that this car is quantifiably better/ faster than any other sports car.. And so did Sutcliff and bunch of others. What is this now?
 

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Relax, guys. We already know the 458 making the rounds is a ringer. An independent test with CUSTOMER cars is the only reliable data. If McLaren says they engineered the 12C to be faster than a customer 458, to which they clearly had access, then I have no doubt it is faster in real life.
 

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Relax, guys. We already know the 458 making the rounds is a ringer. An independent test with CUSTOMER cars is the only reliable data. If McLaren says they engineered the 12C to be faster than a customer 458, to which they clearly had access, then I have no doubt it is faster in real life.
Well, no, that does not work. Italia was 1.4 secs faster than the Scud and 1.6 secs faster than GT3 RS mk2. If McLaren is slower than Italia by a sec it means that it was faster than the Scud/GT3 by less than .5 sec. Even if the scud was also a ringer, GT3 definitely was not. It is very bad. Evo times do tend to be somewhat idiosyncratic, since it's journalists who drive them, but if the stig fails to beat Italia (and RS2) convincingly at Rockingham (in CAR test), then It's a total failure for McLaren.

I am sorry I said it was bad. It's not bad, it's pathetic if it can shade GT3 by only .5 sec.
 

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What is confusing is that McLaren purchased a 458 within weeks of launch and, I understand , kept it for many months; and may still own it.

During this time the two key test drivers spent many hours driving it in all conditions, the tech heads stripped out the software of all components for analysis ( I asked one employee why the 458 gearbox fails to change down when in automatic mode and he said because when they stripped out the box control software it was binary blah blah blah and thus kept the car ib high gears in certain situations), the engineers stripped down the assembly for complete knowledge. They know all that needs to be known about the dynamics, performance and how it is achieved.

So they made claims based on facts derived from a customer type purchase!

What has changed and why the surprise? Different car and different people is the simple answer. I wonder if any publication has the back bone and commercial disassociation to get to the 'real facts'?

The 458 may be better for some drivers but not all and if Ferrari have supplied a 'ringer' then a customer car comparison will surely sell mags if they have the balls.

In the motorcycle industry most tell Porky's about weight as if one misrepresents they all 'have to' in the superbike and touring categories.

Time and a test drive is needed before a balanced view is developed me thinks!!!!
 

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What is confusing is that McLaren purchased a 458 within weeks of launch and, I understand , kept it for many months; and may still own it.

During this time the two key test drivers spent many hours driving it in all conditions, the tech heads stripped out the software of all components for analysis ( I asked one employee why the 458 gearbox fails to change down when in automatic mode and he said because when they stripped out the box control software it was binary blah blah blah and thus kept the car ib high gears in certain situations), the engineers stripped down the assembly for complete knowledge. They know all that needs to be known about the dynamics, performance and how it is achieved.

So they made claims based on facts derived from a customer type purchase!

What has changed and why the surprise? Different car and different people is the simple answer. I wonder if any publication has the back bone and commercial disassociation to get to the 'real facts'?

The 458 may be better for some drivers but not all and if Ferrari have supplied a 'ringer' then a customer car comparison will surely sell mags if they have the balls.

In the motorcycle industry most tell Porky's about weight as if one misrepresents they all 'have to' in the superbike and touring categories.

Time and a test drive is needed before a balanced view is developed me thinks!!!!
Forget Italia. McLaren is barely faster (.6 sec) than GT3!!! A car it has almost 150 hp on. Plus all the advanced chassis technology, and so on so forth. This is a PATHETIC failure.
 

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Forget Italia. McLaren is barely faster (.6 sec) than GT3!!! A car it has almost 150 hp on. Plus all the advanced chassis technology, and so on so forth. This is a PATHETIC failure.
and it does not seem to you there is obviously something wrong in these result, when after first drive ALL journalist clearly said the MP4 felt MUCH faster?
 

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I don't mean to be rude ?? But am i the only person on this forum who does'nt give a F$$K what magazines write about a car ??? I have had a lot of awesome cars over the years and i can honestly say i have never been influenced by a mag in one of my buying decisions !!! Come on boys get real !!!!
 

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and it does not seem to you there is obviously something wrong in these result, when after first drive ALL journalist clearly said the MP4 felt MUCH faster?
Yes, it seems very strange. Maybe there is some error of unknown source. The stig's lap at Rockingham will be much more representative. We will find out on Sunday.
 

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Amorak. I'm with you, I drive the cars and make my own decisions but I read what they, the journo's, have to say to get a perspective, irrelevant or otherwise. Motorcycle companies research claim 90% of 'new interest' results from test reports hence the cheating that goes on - have you noticed the 458 in the current tests has Italian plates?
 

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Amorak. I'm with you, I drive the cars and make my own decisions but I read what they, the journo's, have to say to get a perspective, irrelevant or otherwise. Motorcycle companies research claim 90% of 'new interest' results from test reports hence the cheating that goes on - have you noticed the 458 in the current tests has Italian plates?
Are you saying, it would not bother you if the best handling car in the world (Ron's words), barely beats GT3 on track?
 

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I don't mean to be rude ?? But am i the only person on this forum who does'nt give a F$$K what magazines write about a car ??? I have had a lot of awesome cars over the years and i can honestly say i have never been influenced by a mag in one of my buying decisions !!! Come on boys get real !!!!
Well said, at the end of the day it's about my purchase decision, not a magazines test result.
 

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If a car is slower on track and rocks my boat, is more engaging, keener to the eye then Job DONE. But the GT3 is a fabulous drive and engaging, just now bored with 911 after 20 years of enjoyment, but it is a bargain!

Roll on the MP12 test drive>>>>
 

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If a car is slower on track and rocks my boat, is more engaging, keener to the eye then Job DONE. But the GT3 is a fabulous drive and engaging, just now bored with 911 after 20 years of enjoyment, but it is a bargain!

Roll on the MP12 test drive>>>>
Sure. Yet, I am really tired of Ferrari-style lies and obfuscation. I wouldn't buy a car from a company that is caught exaggerating so blatantly.
 

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Are you saying, it would not bother you if the best handling car in the world (Ron's words), barely beats GT3 on track?
I have not read the article. What else was said? Did the 12C have Corsa tires? What about the 458's tires? I know the GT3 comes on Cups. Were they at all surprised that the 458 was faster after they were positive it wouldn't be? Or was that brushed under the carpet? Did they not feel a need to explain how it is possible?

If the 12C posts a Dunsfold time congruent with Chris Goodwin's claims, as well as a low Ring time, it sounds like the EVO boys may have some explaining to do.

Either way, this is shaping up to be just like the GTR vs. 911 Turbo controversy. Nissan wins some, Porsche wins some, the truth is never really known....

Well, we know that Ferrari cheats. ;)
 

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I have not read the article. What else was said? Did the 12C have Corsa tires? What about the 458's tires? I know the GT3 comes on Cups. Were they at all surprised that the 458 was faster after they were positive it wouldn't be? Or was that brushed under the carpet? Did they not feel a need to explain how it is possible?

If the 12C posts a Dunsfold time congruent with Chris Goodwin's claims, as well as a low Ring time, it sounds like the EVO boys may have some explaining to do.

Either way, this is shaping up to be just like the GTR vs. 911 Turbo controversy. Nissan wins some, Porsche wins some, the truth is never really known....

Well, we know that Ferrari cheats. ;)
It should not matter what RS's tires are. McLaren should simply blitz the competition with the technology it has. Yes, the result looks very strange, but it's not the first time a F1-based mfr sold us a bill of goods. I suspend my judgement till Sunday and the Rockingham lap by Ben Collins. If we get a similar story, it's game over for me. I take back my deposit and goodbye McLaren.
 

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It should not matter what RS's tires are. McLaren should simply blitz the competition with the technology it has. .
well, if u drive on tracks, u probably know that a semi race tyres type as the Corsa worth easily save 2-3 seconds a lap, so whatever the technology is, a really grippy tyre usually beats all technology very easily.
BUT, as it is an original option, McLaren would have been damned idiot not to put Corsa on the car provided, so i dont think it must be the problem.
 

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It should not matter what RS's tires are. McLaren should simply blitz the competition with the technology it has. Yes, the result looks very strange, but it's not the first time a F1-based mfr sold us a bill of goods. I suspend my judgement till Sunday and the Rockingham lap by Ben Collins. If we get a similar story, it's game over for me. I take back my deposit and goodbye McLaren.
do you not find it strange that the 458 beats the gt2rs time and gumpert sport aswell on this test,but at no other time has it done so?
 

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It should not matter what RS's tires are. McLaren should simply blitz the competition with the technology it has. Yes, the result looks very strange, but it's not the first time a F1-based mfr sold us a bill of goods. I suspend my judgement till Sunday and the Rockingham lap by Ben Collins. If we get a similar story, it's game over for me. I take back my deposit and goodbye McLaren.
Really?? Wow, that's kinda drastic. What if the hopped up Italia wins the Rockingham test and then the 12C goes fastest at Dunsfold like Goodwin said and then backs it up with a near 7 min Ring time? Are you gonna call the dealer back and jump back in line?

Or, if not, what will you spend the money on? Not trying to be a smart-a$$ - I'm just shocked that you would take such action based on two mags reviews. Who knows, maybe McLaren did something to pi$$ off the British auto press and this is their payback? A lot more evidence will be coming over the next several months, so I really don't think you should jump to conclusions. I'm not worried about keeping up with a customer 458, not worried one bit.

p.s. the GT3 is a fabulous track car. With the infinite variables falling as they may, I wouldn't be shocked to see it close to the 12C in a single test. In ALL tests, I should hope not.
 
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