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Discussion Starter #1
It was interesting to see Markjayw commenting that he had not seen many reliability issues reported in another thread. But I guess that's due to the fact that he does not have access to the "Owner's Lounge" and is unlikely to ever have.

It also got me thinking about the issues I've had with my car and wondering whether I got a "Friday afternoon" car or not. (For those unaware, "Friday afternoon" being an expression from the old British Leyland days when the work force were desperate to nob off to the pub to start the weekend and therefore lashed the last few cars of the week together with very little care and attention).

So far I've had:

1.) Problems with the "passenger seat belt not fastened" warning. All 4 passenger seat sensors replaced.
2.) Intermittent "Tyre pressure monitoring fault" warnings. No fault ever found.
3.) Windscreen strips becoming detached. Both driver and passenger side replaced at least 4 times and now bonded on with a new process (stronger double sided tape?)
4.) Excessive wind noise from the driver's door. Seals replaced/re-aligned at least 3 times. I eventually pointed out to them that the door was badly aligned and the seal was being pulled loose every time the door was opened/closed. Door has now been realigned but I wait to see if the wind noise is fixed.
5.) Driver's door failed to latch shut. Door latch replaced (a result of 4 perhaps?).
6.) Failure of the fuel filler cap solenoid leaving the flap locked shut even with the car unlocked. Awaiting replacement.
7.) A windscreen wiper that fails to clear the bottom 4 inches of the screen.
8.) A front bumper that has deformed leaving significant gaps between the bumper and the sides of the headlights.
9.) Paint problems around the rear quarter lights. Resprayed 3 or 4 times and the seals now replaced with the new ones.
10.) Horn either not working at all or working intermittently. Replacement steering wheel, replacement high and low tone horns, various tweeking to finally make it work.

I did expect a few teething issues with a new, hand built car and I've been fairly tollerant so far (I've only asked them to buy the car back twice, both times to be ignored as I think they did not think I was serious!) but it is really starting to test my patience.

What do you all think, have I been unlucky or is the above in line with what you've all experienced?
 

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Certainly some teething issues but you have more than your fair share. Some of these are simply new car build issues that have to be corrected in the build process and the dealers need to get up to speed. Comparing these niggles with an F car is like night and day.
 

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Think you've been unlucky jerry to be honest... I have had the horn issue as well, but easy fix I think

Plus I've had a new gearbox. First one apparently. Wasn't a major problem I'll be honest just a warning light i.e there was no failure at all , the car still drove fine at all speeds but mclaren decided to replace the whole unit to find out what the issue was...

The only thing I would say is that it happend while I was in France and Ben arranged for things to be taken care of in Monaco.. Whilst Ben and London were beyond brilliant as always the service from the Monaco dealer was worse than atrocious. I thought perhaps cos in comparison to London everything is second rate... But no these guys are really really rotten..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Maybe my luck is improving ..... I've just been told Upgrade 10 is on schedule and I should be near the front of the queue to get it done :)

Interesting to note your comment on the difference between dealers. I've always thought that service from most dealer networks here in Dubai was worse than that in other countries. I wonder if I'd be losing patience if McLaren London were looking after the car or if I'd have sold it by now if McLaren Monaco were the dealer? Unlikely that I'll ever be in a position to answer that one.
 

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Maybe my luck is improving ..... I've just been told Upgrade 10 is on schedule and I should be near the front of the queue to get it done :)

Interesting to note your comment on the difference between dealers. I've always thought that service from most dealer networks here in Dubai was worse than that in other countries. I wonder if I'd be losing patience if McLaren London were looking after the car or if I'd have sold it by now if McLaren Monaco were the dealer? Unlikely that I'll ever be in a position to answer that one.
Well that's great to hear about update 10 for you.. !

on the other issue its a very difficult one.... in the UK i am sure that there is an easier understanding of what Mclaren are trying to achieve and a desire to achieve that. The Monagasque dealer deals with pretty much everything apart from Ferrari, who are seperate and it seems the lowest common denominator rules. Its extraordinary to think that a Roller owner for example would accept the level of service either, so i have to say i was slightly perplexed. I am not sure what Mclaren can do about it though as by definition in some parts of the world where the market is smaller perhaps and the brand less recognized they will have to sign with dealers who can do the job rather than provide the experience.
 

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Regarding the car, I have had a number of issues too, most of them linked to sensors which were not "sensing" properly and triggered warnings or anomalies. However, I personally think that McL achieved a reasonably good result for a car which was designed entirely from scratch. Let's remember that, when Ferrari or Porsche launch a new car, most of the small components remain the same as on previous or other models and have therefore been extensively tested. Still, my 348 had a speedometer failure and a gearbox oil leak before run-in was finished, my 355 had a major leak of the cooling liquid just after run-in, and my 360 had a F1 gearbox failure (electronics) at 2000 km. The 430 was the first one which did not have any early problem.
As regards dealers, I agree with the above view: they are of a very uneven quality, and I personally believe that McL made a mistake of paying too much attention to their financial strength and not enough to their real commitment to the brand. As a result, they ended up with big, multi-brand car-dealing groups which view their activity as a business rather than a passion. The employees we are dealing with often are genuinely passionate (at least that's the case at the service center in Paris) but their management is not very supportive. I know McL are aware of the problem, but therre is not much they can do given their contractual commitments. I hope they put pressure and correct that in the future, but I am afraid the problem is general among all top car brands.
 

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Regarding the car, I have had a number of issues too, most of them linked to sensors which were not "sensing" properly and triggered warnings or anomalies. However, I personally think that McL achieved a reasonably good result for a car which was designed entirely from scratch. Let's remember that, when Ferrari or Porsche launch a new car, most of the small components remain the same as on previous or other models and have therefore been extensively tested. Still, my 348 had a speedometer failure and a gearbox oil leak before run-in was finished, my 355 had a major leak of the cooling liquid just after run-in, and my 360 had a F1 gearbox failure (electronics) at 2000 km. The 430 was the first one which did not have any early problem.
As regards dealers, I agree with the above view: they are of a very uneven quality, and I personally believe that McL made a mistake of paying too much attention to their financial strength and not enough to their real commitment to the brand. As a result, they ended up with big, multi-brand car-dealing groups which view their activity as a business rather than a passion. The employees we are dealing with often are genuinely passionate (at least that's the case at the service center in Paris) but their management is not very supportive. I know McL are aware of the problem, but therre is not much they can do given their contractual commitments. I hope they put pressure and correct that in the future, but I am afraid the problem is general among all top car brands.
owl,

is this your experience of the dealer in paris i guess?
i was thinking about buying the spider from monaco, but my recent experience prevents that now, so next closest is paris ... !
 

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We are fortunate that McLaren SF is owned by Tom Price, a successful auto dealer but also a McLaren F1 owner and collector of vintage cars. His partner Adam Simms is also a car guy. It shows through in the attitude of all of the employees and the operation of a first class dealership.
 

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owl,

is this your experience of the dealer in paris i guess?
i was thinking about buying the spider from monaco, but my recent experience prevents that now, so next closest is paris ... !
Yes Mikey, I bought it in Paris. The salesman was very motivated and passionate but he left recently and I only met the new guy once. The problem anyway is there is only one person dedicated to McL, and he has virtually no freedom. To his managers, McL is only one of something like 20 brands they represent (from Ferrari to RR, Jaguar, Lambo, Lotus, Nissan, BMW, Infiniti ... and Peugeot, which is where they started and should have stayed). So don't expect any particular initiative to Increase the brand's visibility, strengthen connections with / among existing customers or else, unless the factory pays for it: even the showroom's grand opening, which was the 12c's first presentation to the general public, was shared with the 4 other brands located in adjacent showrooms in the same building.

The service center is much better, although very inconveniently located in a less than glamorous area of Paris. They have a good sense of service, and both the reception and the mechanics are very professional, communicate well and seem to maintain daily contact with Woking. So far, my only criticism is I hate to hear their operator say "Rolls Royce Paris bonjour" when I call for McL.
 

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Jerry sounds like you have more issues than most. Had 2 problems so far. Was stuck once as i could not start the car. It could not detect the car key. Second time, could not move off as the brakes were stuck. On a brighter note, the service from the local dealer have been fantastic. Had both of these problems within the first month but since than have not had any problems.
 

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Pleased to say that my car has been perfect during the first 3 months, 1,000 miles.....until last Saturday. For some reason the battery went completely flat between Thursday evening and Saturday morning. I managed to recharge the battery (I had to take the boot lining out to get at the battery as per the manual) but it has blown the cars electrical brain....car in limp mode, headlights permanently on full beam, no indicators, no wipers, every warning light on. I'm away on business for the next 9 days and so I'll get them to pick it up tomorrow and get it sorted. Hopefully a one off.

Jerry, I would say that you have been very unlucky
 

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Jerry,all the problems you have had (apartt from the fillercap) were mostly on the first 100 cars,mine included.This is why they stopped production for 6 weeks last october,so its unusual that they have all manifested themselves on yours :confused: So its not a Friday car just an august to september one !!
 

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I've had my share of niggles as well: horn, directional switch (twice), loose wire on PCC brain causing suspension fault, same paint problem, trim piece at the bottom front of drivers door came off, and this latest issue of a fairly loud clacking noise during hard cornering, which dealer is looking at right now. However, Philadelphia McLaren has been absolutely terrific in getting things sorted, trying to make things as painless as possible for me - and I think they get a lot of support from the mothership. As others have noted, for the first car from what is essentially a new company, with 100% new parts, it's an extraordinary premier effort and an extraordinary car. I only need to spend 10 minutes driving it to completely forget these small annoyances.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes, I think it is more correctly a September one, it's arrival here ended up being delayed from Nov 11 to Jan 12 whilst they stopped production and fixed those that were waiting delivery. It is, however, number 515 (assuming the last few digits of the VIN are it's production number).

The car remains at the dealer today waiting for the new fuel flap solenoid, that's 11 days so far as McLaren seem to be aware of the problem and have released a new solenoid which is different to the one originally ordered (fortunately I was out of town for most the time). Only took them 3 hours to return my call yesterday and they didn't bother with updates today until I chased them.

I've now thinking Update 10 is decision time for me. If it is delayed or if any of the problems remain post update then I'm afraid to say that the car will be sold. That will bring the real dilemma of what to replace it with.
 

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Yes, I think it is more correctly a September one, it's arrival here ended up being delayed from Nov 11 to Jan 12 whilst they stopped production and fixed those that were waiting delivery. It is, however, number 515 (assuming the last few digits of the VIN are it's production number).

The car remains at the dealer today waiting for the new fuel flap solenoid, that's 11 days so far as McLaren seem to be aware of the problem and have released a new solenoid which is different to the one originally ordered (fortunately I was out of town for most the time). Only took them 3 hours to return my call yesterday and they didn't bother with updates today until I chased them.

I've now thinking Update 10 is decision time for me. If it is delayed or if any of the problems remain post update then I'm afraid to say that the car will be sold. That will bring the real dilemma of what to replace it with.
So its the service your not pleased with?? Ring client services direct at the MTC and tell them.If this is the best dealership they can come up with in the area then they will fail anyway and everyone looses,they need a kick up the a-- from above.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So its the service your not pleased with?? Ring client services direct at the MTC and tell them.If this is the best dealership they can come up with in the area then they will fail anyway and everyone looses,they need a kick up the a-- from above.
The service is only part of the issue. If the car didn't have problems then it wouldn't need to visit the dealer and I'd have reduced exposure to the service. If the dealer fixed it efficiently and provided decent feedback then the problems would be easier to accept.

Both regional and global after sales service are involved (and think the dealer is one of the better ones) so I continue to hope for improvement. My wife and petrol head friends all think I should write to Ron but I believe that shouldn't be necessary.
 

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My car had the rear arch wheel damaged (innerside ) after some complaints it will be cover by warranty.

It's not a hummer , not really normal to see this protection damaged ! (when you see the piece you're thinking it cost 10€ to produce, but the invoice multiply by 30 !) better to be warned...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It was interesting to see Markjayw commenting that he had not seen many reliability issues reported in another thread. But I guess that's due to the fact that he does not have access to the "Owner's Lounge" and is unlikely to ever have.

It also got me thinking about the issues I've had with my car and wondering whether I got a "Friday afternoon" car or not. (For those unaware, "Friday afternoon" being an expression from the old British Leyland days when the work force were desperate to nob off to the pub to start the weekend and therefore lashed the last few cars of the week together with very little care and attention).

So far I've had:

1.) Problems with the "passenger seat belt not fastened" warning. All 4 passenger seat sensors replaced.
2.) Intermittent "Tyre pressure monitoring fault" warnings. No fault ever found.
3.) Windscreen strips becoming detached. Both driver and passenger side replaced at least 4 times and now bonded on with a new process (stronger double sided tape?)
4.) Excessive wind noise from the driver's door. Seals replaced/re-aligned at least 3 times. I eventually pointed out to them that the door was badly aligned and the seal was being pulled loose every time the door was opened/closed. Door has now been realigned but I wait to see if the wind noise is fixed.
5.) Driver's door failed to latch shut. Door latch replaced (a result of 4 perhaps?).
6.) Failure of the fuel filler cap solenoid leaving the flap locked shut even with the car unlocked. Awaiting replacement.
7.) A windscreen wiper that fails to clear the bottom 4 inches of the screen.
8.) A front bumper that has deformed leaving significant gaps between the bumper and the sides of the headlights.
9.) Paint problems around the rear quarter lights. Resprayed 3 or 4 times and the seals now replaced with the new ones.
10.) Horn either not working at all or working intermittently. Replacement steering wheel, replacement high and low tone horns, various tweeking to finally make it work.

I did expect a few teething issues with a new, hand built car and I've been fairly tollerant so far (I've only asked them to buy the car back twice, both times to be ignored as I think they did not think I was serious!) but it is really starting to test my patience.

What do you all think, have I been unlucky or is the above in line with what you've all experienced?
I now need to add
11.) PCC failure (which I notice a number of others have had).
12.) A buzzing from the door panel under hard acceleration (Hypermac mentioned something similar).
13.) A creak from the plastic surround around the instrument cluster.

The wind noise has also returned, there is no solution offered yet for the wiper issue or the deforming front bumper and whilst the fuel filler solenoid was being attended to the car was updated to Platform 9 (something which I was sure had been done previously and often wondered why you were all so critical of it). So ... not only do I have no confindence in the build quality and reliability of the car but I also find it is now less fun to drive. Update 10 is gong to need to be good to keep me as an owner.
 
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