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It's an interesting dynamic. Given the current marketing targets, Red Bull might be a more valuable brand for F1 than Ferrari.
In the era of the Kardashian mutation, it is possible. HL Mencken is credited with saying that no one ever went broke from underestimating the intelligence of the American people. Thanks to globalisation, that now applies to much of the world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #543 ·
FIA TAKES STEPS TO REDUCE PORPOISING IN THE INTERESTS OF SAFETY
16.06.22
Following the eighth round of this year’s FIA Formula One World Championship, during which the phenomenon of aerodynamic oscillations (“porpoising”) of the new generation of Formula 1 cars, and the effect of this during and after the race on the physical condition of the drivers was once again visible, the FIA, as the governing body of the sport, has decided that, in the interests of the safety, it is necessary to intervene to require that the teams make the necessary adjustments to reduce or to eliminate this phenomenon.

A Technical Directive has been issued to give guidance to the teams about the measures the FIA intends to take to tackle the problem. These include:

1. Closer scrutiny of the planks and skids, both in terms of their design and the observed wear
2. The definition of a metric, based on the car’s vertical acceleration, that will give a quantitative limit for acceptable level of vertical oscillations. The exact mathematical formula for this metric is still being analysed by the FIA, and the Formula 1 teams have been invited to contribute to this process.

In addition to these short-term measures, the FIA will convene a technical meeting with the Teams in order to define measures that will reduce the propensity of cars to exhibit such phenomena in the medium term.

The FIA has decided to intervene following consultation with its doctors in the interests of safety of the drivers. In a sport where the competitors are routinely driving at speeds in excess of 300km/h, it is considered that all of a driver’s concentration needs to be focused on that task and that excessive fatigue or pain experienced by a driver could have significant consequences should it result in a loss of concentration. In addition, the FIA has concerns in relation to the immediate physical impact on the health of the drivers, a number of whom have reported back pain following recent events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #545 ·

Q3
  1. Max Verstappen Red Bull Racing -1:21.299
  2. Fernando Alonso Alpine +0.645
  3. Carlos Sainz Scuderia Ferrari +0.797
  4. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes +1.592
  5. Kevin Magnussen Haas +1.661
  6. Mick Schumacher Haas +2.057
  7. Esteban Ocon Alpine +2.230
  8. George Russell Mercedes +2.258
  9. Daniel Ricciardo McLaren +2.450
  10. Zhou Guanyu Alfa Romeo +2.73

Q2
  1. Max Verstappen Red Bull Racing -1:23.746
  2. Fernando Alonso Alpine +1.102
  3. George Russell Mercedes +1.204
  4. Carlos Sainz Scuderia Ferrari +1.451
  5. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes +1.797
  6. Mick Schumacher Haas +1.938
  7. Zhou Guanyu Alfa Romeo +2.370
  8. Esteban Ocon Alpine +2.389
  9. Kevin Magnussen Haas +2.508
  10. Daniel Ricciardo McLaren +2.629
  11. Valtteri Bottas Alfa Romeo +3.042
  12. Alexander Albon Williams Racing +3.112
  13. Sergio Perez Red Bull Racing +9.381
  14. Lando Norris McLaren NC
  15. Charles Leclerc Scuderia Ferrari NC
Q1
  1. Max Verstappen Red Bull Racing -1:32.219
  2. Fernando Alonso Alpine +0.058
  3. Carlos Sainz Scuderia Ferrari +0.562
  4. Kevin Magnussen Haas +0.738
  5. Charles Leclerc Scuderia Ferrari +0.789
  6. Esteban Ocon Alpine +0.793
  7. George Russell Mercedes +0.941
  8. Daniel Ricciardo McLaren +1.417
  9. Valtteri Bottas Alfa Romeo +1.470
  10. Zhou Guanyu Alfa Romeo +1.473
  11. Mick Schumacher Haas +1.488
  12. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes +1.622
  13. Sergio Perez Red Bull Racing +1.710
  14. Alexander Albon Williams Racing +1.828
  15. Lando Norris McLaren +1.847
  16. Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri +2.273
  17. Sebastian Vettel Aston Martin +2.293
  18. Lance Stroll Aston Martin +3.313
  19. Nicholas Latifi Williams Racing +3.441
  20. Yuki Tsunoda AlphaTauri +4.356
 

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Discussion Starter · #549 ·
:(
Norris: McLaren's strong F1 days aren't "genuine pace"
Lando Norris was left downbeat after a miserable Canadian Grand Prix that he felt proved McLaren’s strong days in Formula 1 this season haven’t been “genuine pace”.
By:Luke Smith
Jun 20, 2022,
After a power unit issue resigned Norris to 14th place in qualifying on Saturday, he dropped back to 18th when McLaren double-stacked its cars in the pits. A slow stop for Daniel Ricciardo forced Norris to wait behind his teammate, before his car was then initially fitted with the wrong tyres when he was eventually serviced.

Norris could only recover to 15th at the chequered flag, having also picked up a five-second time penalty for speeding in the pit lane.

Norris said after the race that "everything went wrong today" and there were "just not many positives at all" to take from it.

"The car's not good enough," Norris said. "At times it's strong. I was a little bit more optimistic after Friday and we could achieve more today.

"But when I was stuck behind the Williams, they're so fast, probably the quickest in the straights and we're probably the slowest in the straights, and then it's literally impossible to overtake so we can't do anything."
After a power unit issue resigned Norris to 14th place in qualifying on Saturday, he dropped back to 18th when McLaren double-stacked its cars in the pits. A slow stop for Daniel Ricciardo forced Norris to wait behind his teammate, before his car was then initially fitted with the wrong tyres when he was eventually serviced.

Norris could only recover to 15th at the chequered flag, having also picked up a five-second time penalty for speeding in the pit lane.

Norris said after the race that "everything went wrong today" and there were "just not many positives at all" to take from it.

"The car's not good enough," Norris said. "At times it's strong. I was a little bit more optimistic after Friday and we could achieve more today.

"But when I was stuck behind the Williams, they're so fast, probably the quickest in the straights and we're probably the slowest in the straights, and then it's literally impossible to overtake so we can't do anything."

Norris called it a "very rough day" and left the media pen saying that he wanted "a cold bath and an ice cream and just to go home".

The race saw McLaren fail to score any points for the first time since the Miami Grand Prix at the beginning of May, acting as the latest twist in its form.

The team has occasionally found itself at the very front of the midfield, such as in Australia and Emilia Romagna, only to then slump outside of the points at other events.

Norris said the McLaren MCL36 car was "not anywhere [near] where we want it" and that "a day like today is probably a good thing" to show the team is "a long way off".

"We have to keep working very hard to keep trying a lot of different things," Norris said.

"Maybe at times, things look great. But it's never really like genuine pace, you know. We're a little bit there on luck sometimes.

"A day like today when it's just more simple and you don't have luck on your side, it shows where we're actually at."
 

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:(
Norris: McLaren's strong F1 days aren't "genuine pace"
Lando Norris was left downbeat after a miserable Canadian Grand Prix that he felt proved McLaren’s strong days in Formula 1 this season haven’t been “genuine pace”.
By:Luke Smith
Jun 20, 2022,
After a power unit issue resigned Norris to 14th place in qualifying on Saturday, he dropped back to 18th when McLaren double-stacked its cars in the pits. A slow stop for Daniel Ricciardo forced Norris to wait behind his teammate, before his car was then initially fitted with the wrong tyres when he was eventually serviced.

Norris could only recover to 15th at the chequered flag, having also picked up a five-second time penalty for speeding in the pit lane.

Norris said after the race that "everything went wrong today" and there were "just not many positives at all" to take from it.

"The car's not good enough," Norris said. "At times it's strong. I was a little bit more optimistic after Friday and we could achieve more today.

"But when I was stuck behind the Williams, they're so fast, probably the quickest in the straights and we're probably the slowest in the straights, and then it's literally impossible to overtake so we can't do anything."
After a power unit issue resigned Norris to 14th place in qualifying on Saturday, he dropped back to 18th when McLaren double-stacked its cars in the pits. A slow stop for Daniel Ricciardo forced Norris to wait behind his teammate, before his car was then initially fitted with the wrong tyres when he was eventually serviced.

Norris could only recover to 15th at the chequered flag, having also picked up a five-second time penalty for speeding in the pit lane.

Norris said after the race that "everything went wrong today" and there were "just not many positives at all" to take from it.

"The car's not good enough," Norris said. "At times it's strong. I was a little bit more optimistic after Friday and we could achieve more today.

"But when I was stuck behind the Williams, they're so fast, probably the quickest in the straights and we're probably the slowest in the straights, and then it's literally impossible to overtake so we can't do anything."

Norris called it a "very rough day" and left the media pen saying that he wanted "a cold bath and an ice cream and just to go home".

The race saw McLaren fail to score any points for the first time since the Miami Grand Prix at the beginning of May, acting as the latest twist in its form.

The team has occasionally found itself at the very front of the midfield, such as in Australia and Emilia Romagna, only to then slump outside of the points at other events.

Norris said the McLaren MCL36 car was "not anywhere [near] where we want it" and that "a day like today is probably a good thing" to show the team is "a long way off".

"We have to keep working very hard to keep trying a lot of different things," Norris said.

"Maybe at times, things look great. But it's never really like genuine pace, you know. We're a little bit there on luck sometimes.

"A day like today when it's just more simple and you don't have luck on your side, it shows where we're actually at."
All in all, this was one of the most depressing McLaren performances since the Honda nightmare years. First Lando couldn't even try to get out of Q2 because of a PU 'issue', then he had to start the race with a worn-out PU because the team was concerned that the PU from qualifying could not be fixed: that choice in itself costing him 3/10s a lap in the race. Then the double-stacked pit-stop went trebly wrong - a delay with Daniel's stop in turn caused a delay to the start of Lando's stop and then the team came out with the wrong tyres for Lando's car. On the other side of the garage, Daniel's pace showed no improvement over what it has been this season, and was further compromised late in the race when he had to back off in order to keep his car's temps down.
That new wind tunnel cannot come soon enough.
:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #555 ·
If it were just Mercedes drivers complaining, I'd be inclined to side with red bull but it genuinely seems like a real safety concern up and down the grid. I hope they can get it sorted out, the cars seem unnecessarily difficult to drive
Yeah normal F1 squabbling. The porpoising effect is well understood - the bottoming out (bouncing off the track) is due to the extreme low ride height and under floor design and rear diffuser creating extreme down force which requires a very stiff suspension and stiff tire side walls to support the car (try to). Really uncomfortable cars to drive. So should F1 make a specification change mid season to eliminate bouncing? Or as Red Bull has done use a high rake car design which under high down force causes the rear to lower and the front to raise slightly reducing/eliminating the bounce.
 

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Yeah normal F1 squabbling. The porpoising effect is well understood - the bottoming out (bouncing off the track) is due to the extreme low ride height and under floor design and rear diffuser creating extreme down force which requires a very stiff suspension and stiff tire side walls to support the car (try to). Really uncomfortable cars to drive. So should F1 make a specification change mid season to eliminate bouncing? Or as Red Bull has done use a high rake car design which under high down force causes the rear to lower and the front to raise slightly reducing/eliminating the bounce.
The direction taken by the FIA makes sense. They (believe that they) are obliged to look after the safety of the drivers. By introducing limits to the extent to which a car can porpoise before the driver's health and safety are put in jeopardy, they are staying within the presumed limits of their authority and leaving it to the teams to solve the problem however each wishes, by redesigning the concept of their current car or by raising the ride height of the current car. Horner has no grounds for complaint against the FIA approach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #557 ·
The direction taken by the FIA makes sense. They (believe that they) are obliged to look after the safety of the drivers. By introducing limits to the extent to which a car can porpoise before the driver's health and safety are put in jeopardy, they are staying within the presumed limits of their authority and leaving it to the teams to solve the problem however each wishes, by redesigning the concept of their current car or by raising the ride height of the current car. Horner has no grounds for complaint against the FIA approach.
Yes. The loudest complaints appear to be coming from Binotto, not so much about the intent of the Technical Directive but more about the lack of consultation with the teams prior to FIA issuance. The bounce and porpoising problems could be solved with sensors and active suspension and aero controls - however they are not allowed by current rules. :(
 

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Yes. The loudest complaints appear to be coming from Binotto, not so much about the intent of the Technical Directive but more about the lack of consultation with the teams prior to FIA issuance. The bounce and porpoising problems could be solved with sensors and active suspension and aero controls - however they are not allowed by current rules. :(
Don't Ferrari have a veto anyway??
 

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I smell racing...... and, as usual, most of it is happening off the track.
MB did not get it right. It is as simple as that. The question is, will the FIA provide any relief under the guise of driver safety; basically telling teams they can not "do that" to their drivers and changing the rules that help the teams that screwed up catch up either by slowing the other guys or removing the driver for the problem only some teams are having.

As for F having a problem with the process, I have no clue. The FIA and it's rule governing process is a mystery to me but then I do not have to navigate the process for a competitive advantage (thank goodness).

sorry for that long run on sentence
 
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