McLaren Life banner

First test in Autocar

8684 Views 52 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  Russell996
Out tomorrow and to my biggest surprise, the title says it looses against the 458 Italia (maybe once again they are going to complain about the lack of soul... to perfect). Can't wait to read the article.
Table of contents here.
1 - 16 of 53 Posts
digital version avalible just after midnight uk time,if you cant sleep on it!!!!!!!
so, it's 7 p.m. here. Can't wait.
cant see it..
I can see it, but it won't accept my payment.
Ok, I still can't get the payment through, but I read the sample on autocar page. So far, the complaint is about sound and lack of Ferrari histrionics and wonderful ride. One big disappointment: weight: 1465kg/3223lb.
Ok, I read the article and despite the title it is NOT a test of the cars at all. There are no numbers from the track and the ones shown are simply from press releases. They mention that on the track at really big speed it is much faster but offer no times and then comment that it does not really matter, since Ferrari is a better supercar (meaning mainly louder and sounding better). I am sorry it's a total BS article. The comparisons to the other cars are just summary of the other cars' stats with some random comments. In a word: garbage.
What gets me in the review is when they talk about the amazing cornering speeds the car can get and that nothing can touch it, but then make the most idiotic comment that Italia is still close since the difference in time laps will be counted in one digit percentages: in other words, say 5-7 sec difference is "small" by their argument and lest I forget ..."Italia is not a toy".

This is also coupled with another argument that, you know, the difference of 0-60 of .2 sec is just small. I am sorry it starts to look to me like an agenda is involved when lots of misleading and irrelevant arguments are being made. Hey, if somebody really needs the noise and super-fast steering in their supercar experience and lap times don't matter, then I understand that. No problem with that, but if your car is 5 secs behind on a track, it is a toy.
ditto.....NOT GOOD:(..........they were suppose to hit it outta the ball should have been so good that looks and sounds should not have mattered.........Ron Dennis promised the WORLD........REALLY:confused:......very disappointing esp curb weight @ over 3200lbs:eek:........RS 4.0 is under 3000lbs (curb):eek:.........gonna have to rethink my decision:(.........thank god i DID NOT place a deposit;)..........goona wait for the 'LIGHT' version or look elsewhere........Porsche maybe with new mid-engine prospect or new lambo gallardo:rolleyes:.........i can't get pass the headlights of the italia (FUGLY)
I am sorry, but I do not entirely get your reaction. Weight? Agreed. Disturbingly high. BUT... if the criteria are sound/throttle response and fast steering rack,then Mc12 is guaranteed to lose every time. We knew that from the original batch of reviews. Nothing new here.

Especially, when somobedy then goes on and argue that a veritable gulf in performance is just micro-difference.

However, if the weight of the US cars comes within a sniff of 3300 lbs, I am asking for my deposit back, too.
i luv'd the 12C........bought into all the hype........i liked the looks esp the 'lambo' doors and the interior optioned correctly looked better than the italia IMO.......would have bought it in a heartbeat esp in McLaren Orange;).........i didnt care about the sound (i have a 997tt:rolleyes:) i think with the Inconel exhaust option it would sound just right........but if weight comes in near 3300lbs and the track times don't pan out .........gonna have to go back to my childhood dream..........PORSCHE;)........3300lbs (curb) is a far cry form 1300kg (dry)!!!!
The weight is potentially a big problem for me, too. However, the article suggests that the crazy lap times will pan out. It just calls a difference of several seconds on a track a micro difference. Which is a pretty stunning piece of stupidity from autocar of all places. Those people should know better.

The car is around 100 lbs too heavy. Obviously, depending on options, you can get there, but it is way too much for a mag tester.

The biggest disappointment here is Autocar: instead of publishing a test of two cars, they put out a fluff piece about one guy's love for Italia's sound. Hey, I love it , too. Just the lardy rest gets in the way.
I cancelled my 4c order last August after seeing and sitting in one at the factory - the car just didn't do it for me. I have never regretted this decision even when the early tests were producing such glowing reports, I decided to cancel the order for the right reason - it just wasn't the car for me.

But that doesn't actually stop my admiration for it as a car, 'so what' that it is loosing out to the 458 in the final decision - surely you didn't all think that McLaren could come from no car to best supercar ever in one giant step? We have all grown up knowing Ferrari's are the coolest cars, to just dump that history was never going to happen, even an independent tester can't ditch that mental baggage.

I think it is remarkable that the 4c even gets in the same frame as a Ferrari from day one, all congrats to McLaren for making an absolutely wonderful car. People who are considering changing their orders just because it's not winning all tests were I think not buying it for the right reasons. McLaren will build on this stunning start, I'm sure lighter versions will follow as will other models that will build the brand following.

McLaren is going from zero to hero in a matter months, new factory, new dealers, new car with new technology and absolutely stunning performance! After all, it IS faster than a 458 and therefore faster than just about everything else on the road.

Now that is worth celebrating! Well done McLaren and don't all worry that not everyone thinks it's overall the best car - it's only loosing on the one thing Ron couldn't engineer into the mix - it's lack of 'Ferrariness'.
Well, no, you don't get A for effort in this business. You either come to dominate or don't bother.
p.s. you guys are obsessing too much about the weight. This is RWD car that will hit 100 MPH in 6 seconds and possibly attain 1.7G peak in the corners. There is no weight problem, especially compared to the 458. Besides, exactly how would you propose shaving off additional weight, without sacrificing luxury, options, safety or increasing the price?
There is a weight problem as in: please do not lie to us all the time like Ferrari does. If you promise low weight and make a big play over it, stand by your word. I am sick and tired of Ferrari-style dishonesty.
I have not read the autocar review, but what is included in the weight? All fluids, driver? What was promised by McLaren?
McLAren DIN quote: 1434 kg.
Could finally read Auto Express review... same trend than Autocar - great car but not as engaging and involving than the 458. So, even if it's faster, they prefer the 458. Can't understand the British magazines when it comes to judgements about cars like those...
Well, you know, involvement is very important, you don't want to be driven GTR-style around the track. However, I drove Italia and I don't quite see where the comments come from. Yes, the car has a great sound, but the steering, while very quick, is totally dead. Basically, no feel. The problem with the articles I see is that they basically talk all about sound and then pooh-pooh the gulf in performance as not that large.
Well I think mclaren made the decision to make this a close fight and maybe too close.. All they needed to do is add 20-30hp and torque (zero cost for this engine), make steering and engine response a bit faster (again zero cost), and put an lsd (heavier but with sports seats u can negate most of it) and it would have blown the 458 out of the sky. But they needed to leave space for upcoming s models.
I guess it is how you dial in the comfort vs sportiness compromise. I think with the active suspension perhaps it would have been possible to sacrifice 10% of "everydayness and accessibilty to everyones driving skill" to get 30% more in perceived "driver involvement". But strictly speaking the car would have been more fun but not better really (only faster)..
The journalists have a point. They do blow it out of proportion of course to sell more magazines.
Maybe the AMS test with a NBR faster time of 20+ seconds will set things right.
The thing is, I don't think it needs any of those things to blow Italia away. At least performance-wise. Even with Ferrari cheating every which way, Italia cannot match McLaren performance-wise.

So far, the driver involvement is all about sound and nothing else.
The 458's antecedents don't offer much hope on this point. Here we go - cut and pasted from a Scud owner who is going back to Lambo/Porsche on another forum:

"Build quality not a patch on porsche/lambo, I`ve had over £10k of warrenty work already, new front a frames,all new front suspension bushes, new carbon headlamps, all new carbon in engine bay.
The car generally feels fragile, as if it`s about to break.
I cant hit the brake peddle hard without moving my whole body to the left or I hit the throttle peddle at the same time, its not a case of just moving your foot across with your heel on the floor.
The car is quick, but you have to get over 7k rpm before it gets proper quick and how many times can you do that on roads today?
I`ve done 15 laps of Oulton park and it`s not bad on track, but to make it a good track car I`d need to junk the brakes and replace at least the front springs/dampers to get it to handle, not something I want to do on a £130k car, when a £20k track slag would be quicker and more fun.
My wife scratched a new pair of channel shoes the first time she got in it, and now refuses to go in it again,it`s got the optional trimmed sills and footwells, but the road/tyre noise gets to you after a while, it`s not too practical with harnesses either.
I did a trip to the Monaco GP and had 30 mins of fun driving on the twisties, the other 35 hours was tourture.
If it was a car to use once a month and get up early on a Sunday and go for a few hours blast it`s a great car, for everything else "it`s shit"
Well, I am a scud owner, and it's a wonderful car. It's really great on the track. Yes, you have to wring it out to really enjoy, but that's half the fun. It's not a daily driver, though, at all. Despite some niggles here and there, it's been quite reliable and build quality is excellent. And I drove it hard with majority of the miles on the track.

One big problem with Italia is that, it's not a scud in feel department. It went all the way to become a DD and probably suceeded, but it gained a ton of weight in the process. They try to hide it with the quick steering and extensive cheating in comparison tests.

My great hope for the Macca is that it is a DD with the feel of the Scud and untouchable performance.
Having owned many modern Ferraris and having driven the 458 I for one just tired of the Ferrari "feel", I want something new and exiting. I hope the 12c is light weight 2 wheel drive high hp version of the gtr, gtr is a great car and can make F430 feel like a car for the 1990's. 12c will be the drivers car and the 458 will be for the guy that wants to show off and park it at valet and rev the engine once in awhile, not saying all 458 owners are like that but at least 50% are IMO. As time passes I think the 12c will be the car to have but we will have to wait and see. I am keeping my car on order and won't buy a new fcar until they have turbos, torque!
Well, then we clearly want very different things out of cars. GTR is a blunt instrument with basically no feel. If I want to be driven around the track, I can just use my playstation. 430 was a wonderful car. Italia and GTR are very much alike in one respect: they cover their lard with electronics.
The 430 was a great car for those who like to hear a nice sounding exhaust and a gear box that slammed into the next gear at high rpm shaking the car, but it wasn't very fast especially off the line. The gtr in stock form can get boring but spend $7k for exhaust intake and a custom tune and you have a monster that can crush most super cars 0-120 and it extremely fun and rewarding to drive, the trans is amazing and off the line traction and performance is mind blowing. The 12c has the power, traction, high tech gear box and computers to make it the car that I want..I could care less about cool exhaust tone, I want a drivers car and IMO it will the most wanted car after customers get their cars and the word get out. Not to mention the fact that it can be modded to make an extra 50hp minimum. Getting excited while typing :)
430 was a great car since had a very good, precise steering and very light feeling feelsome chassis. It was eager to turn in and in its Scuderia version was a crazy delight in the way you could throw into a corner at insane speeds. With GTR you turn in, roll on the power and wait for the electronics to work-out grip. What is the fun in this, I don't get. The car is driving you, not the other way round. In general, I really dislike AWD cars (with some exceptions): too much dull-feeling understeer.

Anything can crush a supercar with enough power, short gearing and especially AWD. That's not what those cars are about.

Are you really buying the McLaren for the 0-120 sprints? What's the point, it's all computers anyway. Where's the involvement? Where's the fun?
430 was a good car but gtr is a better car and the gtr has caused other mfg like Porsche to step up and make a better cars, there have been many magazine comparisons to prove my point and i have lots of seat time in both. The 12c will be much like the gtr, just faster, lighter without the awd and more tech.
I really hope 12c is not like GTR. If it is, i will definitely not buy it.

Yes, GTR has forced Porsche to make the Turbo into a better drag racer. Yet, it had no effect on GT cars. I hope 12c is like GT cars, but faster, with better mid-engined turn-in and better DD usability.
1 - 16 of 53 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.