First car at £159,950
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Markets will vary as always...properly managed supply and demand will deal with this imho...I think Mclaren is sensitive to this and will manage the market within their abilities..On that note..Collection Miami has a used car selling for 30K over MSRP..and Eliteautos in TN ( a leading exotic reseller) , has two mac..one sold slightly over MSRP and the second car with 200 miles is selling also for above MSRP...In these times, people get sideways with business issues etc and an " opportunity " buy will always surface but for the most part I believe the depreciation will be reasonable especially in light of the upgrade to 2013 spec and the price increase,,I dont imagine Dealers in US will give any discounts....as long as they are working off an allocation that is pre sold for 12-18 months..
I think the speculators are the disillusioned ones..Bought the car thinking they would make a quick dollar and then prodcution ramped up...If they bought the car to drive and were enjoying the experience like most of us are.....they would not sell at any price. I actually save myself from considerable depreciation expense by selling two of my other cars..This was not my plan but once I drove the Mac, it was clear the others would just sit ,collect dust and depreciate..
I think the speculators are the disillusioned ones..Bought the car thinking they would make a quick dollar and then prodcution ramped up...If they bought the car to drive and were enjoying the experience like most of us are.....they would not sell at any price. I actually save myself from considerable depreciation expense by selling two of my other cars..This was not my plan but once I drove the Mac, it was clear the others would just sit ,collect dust and depreciate..
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I think it has Bling wheelsAuto trader £ 159,950 & he will take a OFFER ! ! ( 150k 155k )
How low can they GO !
To be fair the UK market is bad, not the USA, we all know about the price increase but that has done nothing here, as you can see the price is still falling FAST. FASTER THAN THE CAR ! 0,60 in 3.1 0 100k 2;5 secMarkets will vary as always...properly managed supply and demand will deal with this imho...I think Mclaren is sensitive to this and will manage the market within their abilities..On that note..Collection Miami has a used car selling for 30K over MSRP..and Eliteautos in TN ( a leading exotic reseller) , has two mac..one sold slightly over MSRP and the second car with 200 miles is selling also for above MSRP...In these times, people get sideways with business issues etc and an " opportunity " buy will always surface but for the most part I believe the depreciation will be reasonable especially in light of the upgrade to 2013 spec and the price increase,,I dont imagine Dealers in US will give any discounts....as long as they are working off an allocation that pre sold for 12-18 months..
I think the speculators are the disillusioned ones..Bought the car thinking they would make a quick dollar and then prodcution ramped up...If they bought the car to drive and were enjoying the experience like most of us are.....they would not sell at any price. I actually save myself from considerable depreciation expense by selling two of my other cars..This was not my plan but once I drove the Mac, it was clear the others would just sit ,collect dust and depreciate..
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319 Posts
I don't think it all that surprising. For the moment, there are a lot of cars to choose from, and having not long placed my money where my mouth was, I had the choice of a new one or one of several second hand. Now firstly although there are 20+ on sale second hand in the UK, none offered quite the options I wanted. Price then entered consideration, and for me to choose a second hand one over the new, the price saving would have had to have been at least 40k. Only if there had been a second hand one at 140k with the right colour and interior, would I have bought that one instead of the new. So for the poor guy who really wants or needs to sell in the UK at present, I think he could wait literally for ever or has no alternative but to sell at under 150k. It is just supply and demand, and until all these cars are shifted, there is no way but down for the price. As it is, I am totally certain I have done the right thing in buying the new one, and anyone else out there will also buy new over old at the moment. In 2 years time, if supply and demand is sorted and there are only one or two for sale, prices will have stabilised. If the economy drops totally into a pit, I will keep mine, put 200k miles on it and buy up some other nice cars cheap too. If you like driving, keep the car, if you want an investment, try a Rembrandt, he's not selling any new ones.
I agree with Robbie it's a serious scenario!
The car is great and whilst I did not buy it as an investment (nor did Robbie) had we known what we see now would we have bourght regardless of the quality of the car ????? I wouldn't if I am gonna loose 100k in 2 years and that's the way it's heading
The car is great and whilst I did not buy it as an investment (nor did Robbie) had we known what we see now would we have bourght regardless of the quality of the car ????? I wouldn't if I am gonna loose 100k in 2 years and that's the way it's heading
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I remember punting, before I purchased, £80,000 depreciation in 3 years at the dealer and he responded 'less than that I think' but I thought hard, do I go with a Fezza or risk the hit on a Mac?
I'm very pleased I went with the Mac but I suspect the Fezza would have been enjoyable as well
It does not look good and ,in my opinion ,but I am not surprised as there is not a justification to buy pre-owned at £150k plus......why would you? With 250 cars a year sold in the UK then eventually 200 plus buyers a year are needed to create sufficient demand and I question if that can be achieved in these financially depressed times.
Tell me where the people are with £180k to buy a second hand car let alone 40 or so for today's cars?
I'm very pleased I went with the Mac but I suspect the Fezza would have been enjoyable as well
It does not look good and ,in my opinion ,but I am not surprised as there is not a justification to buy pre-owned at £150k plus......why would you? With 250 cars a year sold in the UK then eventually 200 plus buyers a year are needed to create sufficient demand and I question if that can be achieved in these financially depressed times.
Tell me where the people are with £180k to buy a second hand car let alone 40 or so for today's cars?
Question is are the 458 selling at 184k - 199k - I am told they are
Avendador - no
Porsche - no
Lambo - no
Part of the mistake imop is calling it an everyday car that makes it an alternative,albeit an expensive one , to Bentley etc and thus to similar depreciation ie 25% pa. Whereas a Supercar that if you want to drive everyday you can but its a bit special for that, then that is a different animal and would suffer less depreciation.
Fact is if you look at the cars for sale almost none of them have done more than 1500 miles and many a few hundred which is very Ferrari like. Not cars that have been used everyday!
On the track the car is supreme in an amateurs hands and it certainly has the wow factor.
So why the depreciation compared to the Red v8's. I love mine but would like a spider however cost to change wont work.
If a car goes down in value does the brand ever recover - examples in a white envelope please
Avendador - no
Porsche - no
Lambo - no
Part of the mistake imop is calling it an everyday car that makes it an alternative,albeit an expensive one , to Bentley etc and thus to similar depreciation ie 25% pa. Whereas a Supercar that if you want to drive everyday you can but its a bit special for that, then that is a different animal and would suffer less depreciation.
Fact is if you look at the cars for sale almost none of them have done more than 1500 miles and many a few hundred which is very Ferrari like. Not cars that have been used everyday!
On the track the car is supreme in an amateurs hands and it certainly has the wow factor.
So why the depreciation compared to the Red v8's. I love mine but would like a spider however cost to change wont work.
If a car goes down in value does the brand ever recover - examples in a white envelope please
Here in EU SLS seems to lead the pack in this segment with depreciation around 80K EUR in 2 years. 458 seems to be in 50-60K range.
Cheaper 12C´s are on sale for around list so far, but nobody seems to accept since they are on sale for months already and I expect huge drop in a year or two, probably closer to SLS than 458.
Cheaper 12C´s are on sale for around list so far, but nobody seems to accept since they are on sale for months already and I expect huge drop in a year or two, probably closer to SLS than 458.
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You might argue that the market is telling the manufacturers that a 200 grand v8 is not going to be supported.. The 200 grand price point was always reserved for the v12 fezzas and we know what happens to them... can't help thinking that when mac were analysing this project they were looking at equivalent pricing to the 430. Then because the 458 ramped prices for the market sector, mclaren perhaps got a bit of a happy and unexpected surprise. You can't argue with the financial situation in Europe and it's the Italian registered 458s that are leading the euro market down. Not entirely sure how this all plays out. I would love the spider but upwards of 75k to change and then again for the gt version not sure that's realistic. I agree that some of the other early cars would have ended up in hands of people who want to own for a brief period and then shift on which hopefully suggests that the spider won't be so numerous and in the wrong hands. Once bitten twice shy and all that! Tough one and a double whammy of slightly expensive list price and ever worsening financial environment. I would suggest that MY 2013 coupe is not going to sell in huge numbers and that should stabilise residuals, even if it's a stretch to think they'll improve. For me the upside is that I know if I want to shift it when the spider turns up its going to be a decent hit so i may as well enjoy it to the max ! And boy am I enjoying it..
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There is little doubt that Mclaren expected a price point of £130k as evidence by their early PR AT £130-£180 price as the early rumours came out that the 458 would be pushed up the price scale to make room for the California.
Ferrari have the Bling and experience of market manipulation with Mclaren some way behind, experience wise, but on a steep learning curve.
Time will tell but I still struggle to see how the market has the capacity to absorb the volume.
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I heard that they are only importing 30 coupes and 30 spyders for the 2013 model year for the USA. They over produced in the first year and now that they have a better handle on demand, they will make sure demand outweighs supply. McLaren prices will only go up in the near future.
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1. The world economy is in a recession. There seems to be no end to the uncertainty about Europe - even over here in North America, it is affecting wealthy peoples' spending habits.
2. McLaren and its dealers do not employ the same tactics as Ferrari to keep residuals high for the first half of the production run. Ferrari has also finely tuned their sales projections over decades, as a result they know exactly how many cars the market will bear.
3. McLaren over-produced in year one for the UK market, probably because of speculators. Even though they are throttling back, you can't un-manufacture a car and remove it from the market (unless somebody wrecks it).
4. The 12C is enjoying very positive press over here, as it should, but your local journalists in the UK did you no favours.
5. You don't have enough young buyers in the UK because you don't innovate enough in the industries that are currently creating the most wealth. See here: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/ci...-or-oracle/39623461?tag=content;siu-container. I read another article listing the top 10 UK software companies and although I've been in software almost my entire career, I'd never heard of a single one of them. How many Ferraris do you think sit in the garages of the employees of Apple, Google and Microsoft?
I fear that everybody, not just the UK market, will be having a tough time in the next couple of years if the economic uncertainty does not start to subside. I actually find it amazing that McLaren is up to VIN 1400 already, the way things are. There were times in the past where new Ferraris stacked up on dealer lots. It can happen to everybody and it will, if global sentiment does not improve.
2. McLaren and its dealers do not employ the same tactics as Ferrari to keep residuals high for the first half of the production run. Ferrari has also finely tuned their sales projections over decades, as a result they know exactly how many cars the market will bear.
3. McLaren over-produced in year one for the UK market, probably because of speculators. Even though they are throttling back, you can't un-manufacture a car and remove it from the market (unless somebody wrecks it).
4. The 12C is enjoying very positive press over here, as it should, but your local journalists in the UK did you no favours.
5. You don't have enough young buyers in the UK because you don't innovate enough in the industries that are currently creating the most wealth. See here: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/ci...-or-oracle/39623461?tag=content;siu-container. I read another article listing the top 10 UK software companies and although I've been in software almost my entire career, I'd never heard of a single one of them. How many Ferraris do you think sit in the garages of the employees of Apple, Google and Microsoft?
I fear that everybody, not just the UK market, will be having a tough time in the next couple of years if the economic uncertainty does not start to subside. I actually find it amazing that McLaren is up to VIN 1400 already, the way things are. There were times in the past where new Ferraris stacked up on dealer lots. It can happen to everybody and it will, if global sentiment does not improve.
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30 of each for the entire USA?? You must have heard wrongly. USA is 40% of the global market, currently.
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Three quick points....
1) there's a Midwest dealer in the US who has a 12C with 1500+miles on it that he's trying to sell for sticker price. He's been sitting with this car for over three months. Good luck.
2) you can order a 2012 or 2013 from this same dealer and he'll guarantee delivery THIS YEAR.
3) there is absolutely no way McClaren can sustain itself selling just 30or even 60 cars a year.
As terrific as the 12C is, it will depreciate just like very other exotic.
1) there's a Midwest dealer in the US who has a 12C with 1500+miles on it that he's trying to sell for sticker price. He's been sitting with this car for over three months. Good luck.
2) you can order a 2012 or 2013 from this same dealer and he'll guarantee delivery THIS YEAR.
3) there is absolutely no way McClaren can sustain itself selling just 30or even 60 cars a year.
As terrific as the 12C is, it will depreciate just like very other exotic.
V8 Ferrari barely depreciate for 2 years in the UK
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not true anymore mate . over 50 (!) 458s for sale in uk ( many dealers will only tell you about stock when you ask them ) . 2010 cars can already be had under 150k , some of these would have cost over 200k surely ? The day of the entry level super car holding strong value for 2 years is gone , however ferrari still doing better than macca . things like that don’t change overnight , ferrari also better at protecting values with exact numbers of cars released at a time . mclaren need to get better at this .
Not one 458 advertisedRHD less than £183k ok dealers may have bought for £160k and that is a 2010 car but if a dealer is advertising a Mac at £ 160 he would buy at £145k for a 2011 model. That is seriously worse. I agree 50 is a lot and imop the Market at present is not that big!
I agree that all other brands drop badly as do Ferrari v12 and the days of no depreciation may have gone but try telling that to a 458 spider in 6 months.
12c is an epic car so having to perhaps keep it is easier to accept but it's curve currently is crazy - what is your opinion about their residuals in 12months from now? Could they recover or is it down down down.
I agree that all other brands drop badly as do Ferrari v12 and the days of no depreciation may have gone but try telling that to a 458 spider in 6 months.
12c is an epic car so having to perhaps keep it is easier to accept but it's curve currently is crazy - what is your opinion about their residuals in 12months from now? Could they recover or is it down down down.
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