Ferrari Performance with Porsche Reliability

5691 Views 12 Replies 10 Participants Last post by widowmaker911, May 6, 2011

N8te

Discussion Starter · Apr 23, 2011

Hello! I keep reading the notion that the MP4-12C (and McLaren in general) will offer the reliability that Ferrari lacks (please don't tell me Ferrari's are reliable, I've had a bad F430 experience - sample size of 1, I realize) and the performance and excitement that Porsche lacks (sorry, I love Porsche too, but my 997 TT is not as fun as the F430 and feels less responsive).

My question is what evidence is there of the (expected) reliability of the MP4-12C? Why is McLaren known for reliability (or is this not really the case)? Sorry this is a very basic question, but it has been perplexing me nevertheless. Thanks in advance!

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andy c

· #2 · Apr 23, 2011

N8te said:
Hello! I keep reading the notion that the MP4-12C (and McLaren in general) will offer the reliability that Ferrari lacks (please don't tell me Ferrari's are reliable, I've had a bad F430 experience - sample size of 1, I realize) and the performance and excitement that Porsche lacks (sorry, I love Porsche too, but my 997 TT is not as fun as the F430 and feels less responsive).

My question is what evidence is there of the (expected) reliability of the MP4-12C? Why is McLaren known for reliability (or is this not really the case)? Sorry this is a very basic question, but it has been perplexing me nevertheless. Thanks in advance!

In reality there is no real evidence,however i do not think there has been a car that has been so intensly tested as a new model (1 million miles plus) also every part of the car has been checked and rechecked ,not only for weight but also for quality,as with many cars i dont think price is the main concern.
i think Mclaren is known for reliability because of their attitude towards potential problems,nothing is perfect but they are putting in place a selected dealership network that have been picked more for customer service than for sales.
All dealers must carry at least 1 of everything on the car(except the chassis) so any problem can be delt with asap,their mantra is for every customer to be back in the car in the shortest time possible if a problem occurs.
Im sure everyone on this site has had that problem with a part holding up work on your car,i have had porsches for over 25 years,one such problem kept my car in bits for 6 weeks,just a simple gasket,but i still see them as been reliable! Only time will tell

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widowmaker911

· #3 · Apr 23, 2011 (Edited)

andy c said:
In reality there is no real evidence,however i do not think there has been a car that has been so intensly tested as a new model (1 million miles plus) also every part of the car has been checked and rechecked ,not only for weight but also for quality,as with many cars i dont think price is the main concern.
i think Mclaren is known for reliability because of their attitude towards potential problems,nothing is perfect but they are putting in place a selected dealership network that have been picked more for customer service than for sales.
All dealers must carry at least 1 of everything on the car(except the chassis) so any problem can be delt with asap,their mantra is for every customer to be back in the car in the shortest time possible if a problem occurs.
Im sure everyone on this site has had that problem with a part holding up work on your car,i have had porsches for over 25 years,one such problem kept my car in bits for 6 weeks,just a simple gasket,but i still see them as been reliable! Only time will tell

i think that almost all the McLaren dealerships in NA (ie Pfaff-The Collection-The Main Line etc) also sell Porsches; that is probably more than a coincidence and most of the techs recruited also came from Porsche

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emve

· #4 · Apr 24, 2011

Even after those 1mil.+ miles of testing, these cars doesn´t seem completely trouble-free. In Autocar road trip Sutcliffe mentioned AC and electric windows malfuction. And that was just a few weeks before start of production. I strongly doubt they will address all the issues. It is an all new car and first customers will likely be factory test drivers helping improve the car.

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andy c

· #5 · Apr 24, 2011 (Edited)

emve said:
Even after those 1mil.+ miles of testing, these cars doesn´t seem completely trouble-free. In Autocar road trip Sutcliffe mentioned AC and electric windows malfuction. And that was just a few weeks before start of production. I strongly doubt they will address all the issues. It is an all new car and first customers will likely be factory test drivers helping improve the car.

A risk i will gladly take,ive been there with Aston on a far lesser car!!

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Ritesh

· #6 · Apr 25, 2011

emve said:
Even after those 1mil.+ miles of testing, these cars doesn´t seem completely trouble-free. In Autocar road trip Sutcliffe mentioned AC and electric windows malfuction. And that was just a few weeks before start of production. I strongly doubt they will address all the issues. It is an all new car and first customers will likely be factory test drivers helping improve the car.

I agree. One of the reasons I didn't want to be on the top of the waiting list was b/c I didn't want to be the 7th car shipped to USA. I will gladly be the 100th or 200th car made as long as the initial quality issues are resolved.

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falb

· #7 · Apr 25, 2011

N8te said:
Hello! I keep reading the notion that the MP4-12C (and McLaren in general) will offer the reliability that Ferrari lacks (please don't tell me Ferrari's are reliable, I've had a bad F430 experience - sample size of 1, I realize) and the performance and excitement that Porsche lacks (sorry, I love Porsche too, but my 997 TT is not as fun as the F430 and feels less responsive).

My question is what evidence is there of the (expected) reliability of the MP4-12C? Why is McLaren known for reliability (or is this not really the case)? Sorry this is a very basic question, but it has been perplexing me nevertheless. Thanks in advance!

In terms of performance it seems that the 12C will spank both of your examples handily. But it seems that you are searching for responsiveness and fun. The 997TT is AWD and turbo charged so it will not be as responsive as the 430 and not as tail happy. The 430 will have more throttle response because it is natrually aspirated. The GT3RS is popular because it lacks turbos, a heavy drivetrain, and feels more raw and responsive.

Based on the published data the 12C wil be much faster and comfortable in all environments -track, street and wife duty. Therefore, it will be much more fun!

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SSO

· #8 · Apr 27, 2011 (Edited)

Not sure I really buy into the Ferrari - Porsche reliability myth. I have owned quite a few of each. Overall both have been very reliable and each manufacturer on occassion drops a lemon off the end of the production line. In my case over the years I have had one from each. Porsches tend to get driven far more often than Ferraris and they benefit from the more regular use. Most of the Ferrari issues can be traced to cars that sit for long periods and don't get used. Drive a Ferrari regularily and they are fine.

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AugustWest

· #9 · Apr 29, 2011

Boxer said:
Not sure I really buy into the Ferrari - Porsche reliability myth. I have owned quite a few of each. Overall both have been very reliable and each manufacturer on occassion drops a lemon off the end of the production line. In my case over the years I have had one from each. Porsches tend to get driven far more often than Ferraris and they benefit from the more regular use. Most of the Ferrari issues can be traced to cars that sit for long periods and don't get used. Drive a Ferrari regularily and they are fine.

Totally agree - sitting kills everything. Drive your Corolla 4x/year and see how it does!

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mclaren

· #10 · May 3, 2011

Yes agree -placing an orde this week not sure of color yet (Australia)

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roundincircles

· #11 · May 4, 2011

The reliability issue is a tough one for all manufacturers, I have spent a lot of time in car assembly and implementing the 'right first time' philosophy.

The issue is how manufacturers respond to problems and how dealers respond, very different issues. They will have problems for sure.

McLaren acknowledge there will be problems as evidenced by their plan to put every part in dealer stock ( with the exception of the Tub and I suspect engine )

They will have surprises but will probably respond as it is in their DNA.

It is the dealers that are unknown and have other 'Marque Prejudice'

McLaren will be OK is my best guess, if the engine has no fundamental design flaw!!!

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SSO

· #12 · May 5, 2011

I know they are still doing an enormous amount of testing as small issues keep coming up.

Good news is they seem very committed to delivering a fully sorted car on day 1.

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widowmaker911

· #13 · May 6, 2011

Boxer said:
I know they are still doing an enormous amount of testing as small issues keep coming up.

Good news is they seem very committed to delivering a fully sorted car on day 1.

prime example; side mirror attachments change to single stem design. original double stem design made a loud 'whistling' noise @ speed

thus the redesign

.......kudos to McLaren....they are gonna leave NO stone unturned

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