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I am not starting this thread to advance the current pissing contest that aftermarket companies have with each other. I would like to foster an informed debate as to what we as mclaren owners expect and what aftermarket companies can actually achieve with respect to actual power gains from modifying the exhaust system on our cars.

I have installed the fabspeed hi flow cats on my car. The first set had issues (broken brackets and broken cats). My installer contacted fabspeed and new pipes with flex bends were installed (no cost to me and quickly) and since the car has run more or less flawlessly. The purpose of adding the exhaust bits was to get some more sound out of the car (my car didn't have the factory sport exhaust) and hopefully shed weight and improve power/throttle response.

The car sounds much better and i have since modified the stock factory exhaust (my own hack job) and the car sounds very angry, significantly louder than several setups i've experienced.

However, my only problem is the dyno graphs that aftermarket supply for our consumption.
My sports cats are supposed to add 30 or so whp to the car. Maybe I have incorrectly interpreted that this power gain translates into actual on road performance. I have tried several roll races in auto (to account for driver error) several times between myself (sport cats with stock muffler and modded) and stock exhaust mp4's (one with standard exhaust and the other with sport exhaust). The result is that none of the cars appear any quicker than the other from any roll race from around 50-80 km/h to 200-250km/h.

I guess what i am saying is, am I reading too much into the aftermarket company claims of power increases - are they actually significant enough to produce a difference in real life? Are we as owners expecting more than just noise? Will the aftermarket companies please clarify, are the quoted performance gains actually making the cars faster and is it quantifiable.

In the mean time, please enjoy my car at the end of a straightaway at a local track - spitting a few flames (thank you sport cats and a local muffler shop) and seom glowing brake rotors!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wuo6pVWoCQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUn6Ml-othQVZqMcR141vaaw
 

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30HP should make a noticeable difference when racing another 12C.... I alway asks for performance numbers, not dyno numbers before buying, which no one has produced yet, now we see why....
 

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What sort of mods to the exhaust did you do to improve noise and flame-throwing? Were these mods done to the FabSpeed exhaust or to a different 12c with standard McLaren exhaust?

Here's the video embedded:


-Jamie.
 

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I am not starting this thread to advance the current pissing contest that aftermarket companies have with each other. I would like to foster an informed debate as to what we as mclaren owners expect and what aftermarket companies can actually achieve with respect to actual power gains from modifying the exhaust system on our cars.



I have installed the fabspeed hi flow cats on my car. The first set had issues (broken brackets and broken cats). My installer contacted fabspeed and new pipes with flex bends were installed (no cost to me and quickly) and since the car has run more or less flawlessly. The purpose of adding the exhaust bits was to get some more sound out of the car (my car didn't have the factory sport exhaust) and hopefully shed weight and improve power/throttle response.



The car sounds much better and i have since modified the stock factory exhaust (my own hack job) and the car sounds very angry, significantly louder than several setups i've experienced.



However, my only problem is the dyno graphs that aftermarket supply for our consumption.

My sports cats are supposed to add 30 or so whp to the car. Maybe I have incorrectly interpreted that this power gain translates into actual on road performance. I have tried several roll races in auto (to account for driver error) several times between myself (sport cats with stock muffler and modded) and stock exhaust mp4's (one with standard exhaust and the other with sport exhaust). The result is that none of the cars appear any quicker than the other from any roll race from around 50-80 km/h to 200-250km/h.



I guess what i am saying is, am I reading too much into the aftermarket company claims of power increases - are they actually significant enough to produce a difference in real life? Are we as owners expecting more than just noise? Will the aftermarket companies please clarify, are the quoted performance gains actually making the cars faster and is it quantifiable.



In the mean time, please enjoy my car at the end of a straightaway at a local track - spitting a few flames (thank you sport cats and a local muffler shop) and seom glowing brake rotors!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wuo6pVWoCQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUn6Ml-othQVZqMcR141vaaw

I had the exact same issues NITEALB with mine, which was also resolved by Fabspeed and no money out of my pocket. For me it's all about sound, weight, looks and performance more or less in that order. As for performance the key would be weight reduction and increased torque. I'd love to fiddle with the ECU but will not risk it with all the potential warranty issues that have been discussed over time. Cheers.....??
 

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Discussion Starter #5
30HP should make a noticeable difference when racing another 12C.... I alway asks for performance numbers, not dyno numbers before buying, which no one has produced yet, now we see why....
Yup, 30hp should be a significant difference. I would love to hear from the tuners.... does your product make our cars faster or just more audible?

What sort of mods to the exhaust did you do to improve noise and flame-throwing? Were these mods done to the FabSpeed exhaust or to a different 12c with standard McLaren exhaust?

Here's the video embedded:


-Jamie.
thats my car with fabspeed sport cats and my own hack job on the standard muffler. The mac's will all get some flames if driven hard enough on track and its more noticeable the darker it gets. i've found the current setup is more condusive to flames as opposed to stock.

I had the exact same issues NITEALB with mine, which was also resolved by Fabspeed and no money out of my pocket. For me it's all about sound, weight, looks and performance more or less in that order. As for performance the key would be weight reduction and increased torque. I'd love to fiddle with the ECU but will not risk it with all the potential warranty issues that have been discussed over time. Cheers.....??
Hi Ken, we met at pfaff when we listened to our cars side by side - glad to hear things are well.
 

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Yup, 30hp should be a significant difference. I would love to hear from the tuners.... does your product make our cars faster or just more audible?







thats my car with fabspeed sport cats and my own hack job on the standard muffler. The mac's will all get some flames if driven hard enough on track and its more noticeable the darker it gets. i've found the current setup is more condusive to flames as opposed to stock.







Hi Ken, we met at pfaff when we listened to our cars side by side - glad to hear things are well.

For some reason when I read your story and after writing what I wrote I watched your video and realized I'd met this person before. You think I would have put 2+2 together and came up with the connection. All is well the car is running ppppuuuuurrrrrrfect. I'm loving every moment I drive with it but I'm getting into trouble with this little baby. I should be taking her or someone else's to the track LOL :D. Cheers.....??
 

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For some reason when I read your story and after writing what I wrote I watched your video and realized I'd met this person before. You think I would have put 2+2 together and came up with the connection. All is well the car is running ppppuuuuurrrrrrfect. I'm loving every moment I drive with it but I'm getting into trouble with this little baby. I should be taking her or someone else's to the track LOL :D. Cheers.....??
http://www.supercarscanada.com/race.aspx
 

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i have ran a few stock 12c's at pbir and have pulled on the straight. not a huge difference but enough to pass cleanly :)
im sure awe can post my dyno sheets.
 

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I think losing 20 lb.s would be more beneficial than any other mod - taking 10k out of my pocket is worth less than a pound and I prefer the Sport exhaust and turbo notes.

Changed out my 16M exhaust and spent well above 10k - to raise MP4 performance advise getting a personal trainer / gym equipment.
 

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Yes C612, you are correct with that statement it really works well when riding on a bicycle as well. It's the cheapest and most beneficial solution to this dilemma, which is probably why my car is so fast. Cheers....??
 

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I won't mention any names, but it seems like any and all of the tuners/aftermarket companies that advertise how great their product is for umpteen thousand dollars have played politician on this thread and have not answered the direct question. What are your power claims? And do you have independant data to back it up ie. Dino charts, 0-60, 0-100, and quarter mile times? Or is it just paying a couple thousand for noise?

NITEALB, I Am starting a pissing contest because nobody seems to be answering your question
Where are you guys and your claims? Why is it that I would want to spend loads of money and get nothing besides broken brackets, cats, and pointless unproven claims?
 

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Will try to say it again. Bosch ecu is torque based, ie "required" torque based. At every and all rpm points at wot. So if you don't fiddle with the ecu torque limits then you will not get significant power/torque gains.
Unless the engine has a mediocre factory setup/tuning and because of too much back pressure etc was never able to reach those ecu required torque numbers as stock, and hence freeing up the exhaust would achieve that. Me thinks Mclaren too professional for that..
However improved throttle response is very possible. Also in hot climates some performance gains also possible as reducing back pressure also reduces egts, which if they get too high too often with stock restrictive cats in hot climates would rob power.
So until someone comes up with a reliable and well researched Ecu mod people will not see real gains from aftermarket exhausts etc.
 

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Until I see independent objective evidence of claimed performance gains, it is all just noise. Quality of execution is one thing and is of value esthetically, but quality of design is very objective in performance.
 

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When Mclaren adds some hp I am sure there will be a way to gain the same hp in our 1st gen cars.

I don't know of anyone doing ECU upgrades and that's the only way to complete the circle of torque.
 

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When Mclaren adds some hp I am sure there will be a way to gain the same hp in our 1st gen cars.

I don't know of anyone doing ECU upgrades and that's the only way to complete the circle of torque.

Well C612 supposedly Fabspeed is going to be providing that service in the not to distant future. Yeeee haaaaa. Cheers.....??
 

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i have ran a few stock 12c's at pbir and have pulled on the straight. not a huge difference but enough to pass cleanly :)
im sure awe can post my dyno sheets.
Gladly!





As Mac 1 said above, with the AWE Tuning McLaren MP4-12C Performance Catalysts and Exhaust installed on his car he is now able to pull on stock MP4-12Cs.
 

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Does this stock dyno reflect the pre-Mclaren update (590 hp) tune?

Thank you for responding to this thread. I know this board is slow and full of off topic banter. I understand that you all have a business to run and can not surf around here trolling for business like they do on 6speed.
 
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