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Discussion Starter #1
Very good showing by updated MP4-12C - Tiff Needell seems to like it. Seems like emotions added - blips, exhaust sound, flames from exhaust...

Laptimes Blyton park:
Pagani Huayra - 1:02,5
MP4-12C - 1:02,8
Exige S - 1:04,4
911 Carrera - 1:05,1

In the end, Pagani wins the contest together with Exige S.

 

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So Tiff,its epic now is it !!! What are you after ??? and again there is nothing on the track between the 12 and a million pound plus hypercar ,Result !!!!
 

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So Tiff,its epic now is it !!! What are you after ??? and again there is nothing on the track between the 12 and a million pound plus hypercar ,Result !!!!
I'm not sure I understand your anger, isn't it good news that the updates have made such a positive change to the car?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So Tiff,its epic now is it !!! What are you after ??? and again there is nothing on the track between the 12 and a million pound plus hypercar ,Result !!!!
I reckon Tiff described the situation as epic, the fight with Huayra, not the MP4-12C.

Huayra is a beast and could not use all its potential on this small slow track (12C as well though). It has been also tested on Vairano, where it smashed Aventador record by almost 2 sec with a laptime of 1:12,0s. (aventador 1:13,9s,MP4-12C 1:14,8s)
 

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Considering the McLaren costs a fraction of the Huayra and manages to keep glued to the back end, but in many cases in a tight small track you are really not going to gain that much pace ahead, now imagine a Huayra vs the P1 ;) even tiff expects the 12c to be the better car over the Pagani! I think the mac embarrasses it. But likewise its a small tight track, I wonder how manageable if pagani had its tc off and if both cars had tc on?
 

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But did it have the latest updates and added power?

Did you watch right to the end of the out-takes?

A bit more 12C action.
 

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As far as I can make out the 12C didn't score higher on the basis of being fitted with carbons (which McLaren themselves do not recommend unless for heavy track-work, which the test only includes partial time and the remainder is road driving) and the team not being able to figure out how to dial out increased ISG noise in sport/track. Coming 4th behind something costing 5 times the price (Huayara) and something that will last a 1/5th of the time before the acronym kicks in (Lotus Exige) is an honourable loss.
I'm more than happy for the 12C to be duelling for thill of driving with the Porsche platform (even if it was 'only' a Boxster S). Having owned a Cayman R it's about the only thing that would interest me if I ever parted ways with my 12C and came back to earth.
Ho hum. I'll just keep enjoying my 4th placed q-car...
 

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I'm not sure I understand your anger, isn't it good news that the updates have made such a positive change to the car?
The guys a slime ball,the changes will make 5% difference,too little to completely change your tack,unless your a self promoting pillock.And the damage the pair did was unfounded if they had taken their time to take instruction beforehand on a unique car,they wouldnt have been so damaging,im still defending the car to the guy in the street who thinks that pair are gods .
 

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The guys a slime ball,the changes will make 5% difference,too little to completely change your tack,unless your a self promoting pillock.And the damage the pair did was unfounded if they had taken their time to take instruction beforehand on a unique car,they wouldnt have been so damaging,im still defending the car to the guy in the street who thinks that pair are gods .
I guess it depends how much that 5% improvement overall is in the area you care about. Tiff has a sideways driving style for tests and had an issue making this work. I assume changes made by McLaren now make this easier - only important to him!
Also, you can't lay the blame at the door of testers for not understanding a car, if the car needs to be driven in a different way then it is down to McLaren to 'ensure' testers understand what they are driving before they drive. After all, a test drive from Joe Public before buying a 12C will also be a 'blind' experience and first impressions matter.
 

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I guess it depends how much that 5% improvement overall is in the area you care about. Tiff has a sideways driving style for tests and had an issue making this work. I assume changes made by McLaren now make this easier - only important to him!
Also, you can't lay the blame at the door of testers for not understanding a car, if the car needs to be driven in a different way then it is down to McLaren to 'ensure' testers understand what they are driving before they drive. After all, a test drive from Joe Public before buying a 12C will also be a 'blind' experience and first impressions matter.
I take your point russell,but apparently he wouldnt take any advise at the time,because he knew better!!!,and with Mclaren looking on the PR train at the time they let it go ,but they wouldnt know what would happen with the editing,but with hindsite they should have pulled the car,but the guys on the ground would assume they would get a fair crack of the whip with such a personality.
As for joe public,i couldnt fault the pre-production car around dunsfold,as i drive like joe public !! and how many people were put off a test drive because they thought they would end up in a hedge ??
 

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The guys a slime ball,the changes will make 5% difference,too little to completely change your tack,unless your a self promoting pillock.And the damage the pair did was unfounded if they had taken their time to take instruction beforehand on a unique car,they wouldnt have been so damaging,im still defending the car to the guy in the street who thinks that pair are gods .
C'mon Andy, tell us what you really think! (BTW, completely agree with you!)
 

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Andy, TN came across in the video as promoting himself first and showing how clever he was equal first!

The problem is that nothing is important to him once you're off the subject of how special he is..........I met a top top Chef/Restauranteur recently ( my wifes birthday, between 50 and 70 ) and every answer to our questions was designed to maintain his reputation......the number one issue in his line of business.....fascinating to me as I was in a buisiness where product and service were critical.

So being a Pillock has to be taken in context. I agree with you.
 

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At least four of use can see through him !!!! ;) Still think 6th should watch it before he has a critical meeting,it could just set him up in the right frame of mind !!:D
 

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think it was acknowledged at the time that they did what they did to be controversial... trying to make 'different' telly (a la Top Gear with hammond in the f1 car)as 5th gear not exactly top of the viewing lists.... strangely the stig didn't have the same problems, but then of course going quick is not about sideways... remember TN was turned down for a drive at mclaren..

i can't remember what settings TN had it on for that test, but i have never felt that the car was every going to do to me what it did to TN.. indeed compare and contrast with sutcliffe in autocar vid saying it shouldn't be that easy to power slide a car at 100 mph... (i read that as 'Tiff you're useless'... perhaps reading too much)

agree the damage was done, and also that these changes will add a bit more 'flair and flamboyance' to the car, they make no change at all to how the car actually drives and goes.. it has always been meteoric but will now just shout about it a bit more..
 

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think it was acknowledged at the time that they did what they did to be controversial... trying to make 'different' telly (a la Top Gear with hammond in the f1 car)as 5th gear not exactly top of the viewing lists.... strangely the stig didn't have the same problems, but then of course going quick is not about sideways... remember TN was turned down for a drive at mclaren..

i can't remember what settings TN had it on for that test, but i have never felt that the car was every going to do to me what it did to TN.. indeed compare and contrast with sutcliffe in autocar vid saying it shouldn't be that easy to power slide a car at 100 mph... (i read that as 'Tiff you're useless'... perhaps reading too much)

agree the damage was done, and also that these changes will add a bit more 'flair and flamboyance' to the car, they make no change at all to how the car actually drives and goes.. it has always been meteoric but will now just shout about it a bit more..
Thanks Mike,this is how i should have viewed it also,i just got carried away!! As regarding the settings TN was in,he switched off his brain and his reasoning,i hope that was diplomatic enough?;)
And as you say it just makes the package a bit more shouty !!
 

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At least four of use can see through him !!!! ;) Still think 6th should watch it before he has a critical meeting,it could just set him up in the right frame of mind !!:D
Nothing to add, andy, as you, RIC and mikeyb have summed it up word perfect. Get my 10 car back hopefully tomorrow or the next; will let you know if the boring, death-trap McLaren has been magically transformed. ;)
 
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