[Gazza]

On my test drive I found the brakes to come on too quick initialy. IMO they seemed somewhat over servoed. Then after the initial grab they seemed to have less of this effect. Basically the pedal was very touchy if you wanted to slow a bit, but if you wanted to do a racing stop they did not seem too bad. The applied pedal force on the pedal is not linear with the braking force of the car. Well thats what I found.
Anyone notice or find this also?

My comparison is driving one Porsche with Steel Rotors and one Porsche with Ceramic Rotor (PCCB) brakes. The PCCB brakes are much better than the 12C and even the Steel ones were better. PCCB has very linear progressive braking action and very consistant in high stress conditions.

 

[roundincircles]

I agree they are not easy to modulate or scrub of a little speed but I was brought up on Porsche brakes.

Apparently they are 'all like that Sir'.......but that does not make them right? I'll have to tell Ron then!

 

[6th element]

I have the CCBs. Have not driven a car with the standard steel brakes. The CCB pedal is firm, like a racecar's, which takes a few drives to get used to. Once you do, it's no different from any other pedal. You do appreciate the firm pedal when stopping from high speed.

Actually, just this morning on my commute, I was thinking if there is one car that needs solid brakes, it is this one. It is so fast and so smooth that you can find yourself going way faster than you thought you were.

After driving my 12C daily, I find the brakes in other cars too soft. It's whatever you are used to, I suppose.

 

[ergoproxy]

By now the lack of linear response should be worked out of road-going ceramics. But it isn't. And they continue to be marketed as track brakes, which they aren't. I'm not pleased with my current set. Maybe I should bed them aggressively (aka Sicilian tune up). The best set I ever had was PCCB in a 2008 Porsche. Scary when wet though, because even if water didn't influence the coefficient of friction much, the dirt it carried did. Weight being equal, I'm thinking steel in the 12C.

 

[andy c]

By now the lack of linear response should be worked out of road-going ceramics. But it isn't. And they continue to be marketed as track brakes, which they aren't. I'm not pleased with my current set. Maybe I should bed them aggressively (aka Sicilian tune up). The best set I ever had was PCCB in a 2008 Porsche. Scary when wet though, because even if water didn't influence the coefficient of friction much, the dirt it carried did. Weight being equal, I'm thinking steel in the 12C.

Funny but i can cook my 997tt ceramics (or at least the fluid) quicker than i can the steel rotors on my 12c???

 

[Jerry]

Steels on mine, I'm happy with their performance and would say they are as linear as the steels on the 997 Turbo which was replaced.

Coped with a 20 minute thrash around Yas without fading.

 

[falb]

The pedal is quite firm and takes some time to get used to. I think you just need seat time to get the right touch, they are different feel.

 

[Ritesh]

IMHO The 997 PCCB's are the best I have ever felt/driven. The brake modulation was very linear with appropriate braking in response to brake pedal modulation. I.E. Very flat TQ graph for braking.

When I testdrove the 12C's. I felt that both the Iron rotors and the CCB's were way to abrupt with initial pedal pressure. The CCB's even more so that the Steelies. After the initial input I felt that the pedal pressure were quite linear on both demo cars. I personally felt that the Iron rotors had better pedal feed back and modulation. Since the CCB's weren't lighter I decided to go with the Iron rotors. I have gotten used to the initial "brake bite" and haven't regretted my decision yet. I haven't tracked my car though and will be doing a DE with it near the end of this month. That should test if the brake pad/rotor combination and handle repeated high speed braking.

BTW...Are there any aftermarket brake pad options for the 12Cyet?

 

[Gazza]

Thanks for the feedback, good to know whats "normal" for this car.

Would be good if the factory can make the braking action like the Porsche brakes. hint hint

 

[andy c]

Thanks for the feedback, good to know whats "normal" for this car.

Would be good if the factory can make the braking action like the Porsche brakes. hint hint

Not too sure about that!,ive never managed to get the ABS on,which is a good thing and partly down to the airbrake spreading the load,yet you know what happens with a 911 when your trying hard and the front end is bouncing about,its a 911 trait,but when you are used to them the 12c brakes inspire more confidence.

 

[Gazza]

Not too sure about that!,ive never managed to get the ABS on,which is a good thing and partly down to the airbrake spreading the load,yet you know what happens with a 911 when your trying hard and the front end is bouncing about,its a 911 trait,but when you are used to them the 12c brakes inspire more confidence.

It was only when feathering the brakes on the 12C that is felt over servoed. The Porsche does not do this. Other than that, the 12C brakes seemed ok.

 

[roundincircles]

Not too sure about that!,ive never managed to get the ABS on,which is a good thing and partly down to the airbrake spreading the load,yet you know what happens with a 911 when your trying hard and the front end is bouncing about,its a 911 trait,but when you are used to them the 12c brakes inspire more confidence.

Andy, are you hitting the left pedal to trigger the ABS? My experience is that you only use the right pedal

 

[davidy]

i also feel it. my first thought is the airbrake that cause it.

 

[6th element]

Not too sure about that!,ive never managed to get the ABS on,which is a good thing and partly down to the airbrake spreading the load,yet you know what happens with a 911 when your trying hard and the front end is bouncing about,its a 911 trait,but when you are used to them the 12c brakes inspire more confidence.

I'm with you, andy. People just don't understand that you quickly adapt to the equipment. Once your leg and ankle "learn" the nuances of force and joint articulation required, it becomes second nature. It's like Pre-Cog and Brake Steer and even the PCC limiting roll and allowing the chassis to be compliant in a straight line. These are all innovations that feel different to what we are used to. If you take a single test drive in this car and wish to start changing how things feel, you will miss the point of the this product and make the same mistakes as the early UK journalists. The very LAST thing McLaren should do is compromise their vision and make a car that feels or sounds like a Porsche with a McLaren badge. Once you spend time in this car and gel with it, you realize these things all contribute to how a "McLaren" feels and it is the new benchmark.

 

[Jaymoney]

I'm with you, andy. People just don't understand that you quickly adapt to the equipment. Once your leg and ankle "learn" the nuances of force and joint articulation required, it becomes second nature. It's like Pre-Cog and Brake Steer and even the PCC limiting roll and allowing the chassis to be compliant in a straight line. These are all innovations that feel different to what we are used to. If you take a single test drive in this car and wish to start changing how things feel, you will miss the point of the this product and make the same mistakes as the early UK journalists. The very LAST thing McLaren should do is compromise their vision and make a car that feels or sounds like a Porsche with a McLaren badge. Once you spend time in this car and gel with it, you realize these things all contribute to how a "McLaren" feels and it is the new benchmark.

^That

 

[roundincircles]

I'm with you, andy. People just don't understand that you quickly adapt to the equipment. Once your leg and ankle "learn" the nuances of force and joint articulation required, it becomes second nature. It's like Pre-Cog and Brake Steer and even the PCC limiting roll and allowing the chassis to be compliant in a straight line. These are all innovations that feel different to what we are used to. If you take a single test drive in this car and wish to start changing how things feel, you will miss the point of the this product and make the same mistakes as the early UK journalists. The very LAST thing McLaren should do is compromise their vision and make a car that feels or sounds like a Porsche with a McLaren badge. Once you spend time in this car and gel with it, you realize these things all contribute to how a "McLaren" feels and it is the new benchmark.

6th, You make a case for the Mac experience that's understandable but some of us have different preferences regarding brakes. I prefer to have modulation that allows an easy srub of speed whilst also, with more pressure, max braking.

It might be my motorcycle habit of setting the front forks before calling for max retardation.

However I'm adjusting to the Mac but it is taking time.

Perhaps there is a need for a brake modulation choice like the power maps.....lots of modulation, less modulation and 6th modulation.

I'll have a word with Ron.

 

[Duncati]

I am not sure if there have been some improvements made in the braking set-up during the last 9 months or so through different pad selection, servo calibration etc., as I found the early car I test drove with traditional Cast Iron rotors to be a bit 'grabby' and slightly over-servoed, but I am very pleased with the feel and weighting of the Carbon Ceramic brakes fitted to my car (which was built in February).

My refererence points are limited to CCBs fitted to a couple of Ferrari 430 and 458s, but I have so far found the 12C Carbon Ceramic brakes to be well weighted and every bit as capable and easy to modulate as the Ferrari versions fitted to these cars. Can't comment in relation to Porsche CCBs however, so it may be the level of 'feel' achieved by Porsche is better still.

Overall, however, I am very happy with my decision to specify the optional CCBs and would plan to go with this option again on any future car. To me, they provide a reassuring firmness and level of fade resistance without any noticable loss of 'feel' compared to the standard brakes.

 

[andy c]

Andy, are you hitting the left pedal to trigger the ABS? My experience is that you only use the right pedal

Maybe thats something to do with driving 911.s for 25 years,wouldnt dare touch the brakes other than in a straight line The more modern cars were on the ABS at the first sign of a bump or dampness,so its taken time to get up the confidence with the 12c,about the first 10 minutes i think
One thing though,if ive been in a different car,i have to remind myself what pressure i want when driving normally up to a T junction!!! (is that modulation )

 

[ergoproxy]

Funny but i can cook my 997tt ceramics (or at least the fluid) quicker than i can the steel rotors on my 12c???

I wouldn't put it past porsche to use the cheapest low boil brake fluid. But if you are cooking any brakes, you are operating on a different plane than my pansy street driving.

It's been pointed out here that the GT3 car uses steel...for cost or effectiveness?

One would have to live with a each option for a few days in varied conditions to judge. It shouldn't be a unique muscle memory event to obtain smooth, powerful braking from either type.

 

[6th element]

6th, You make a case for the Mac experience that's understandable but some of us have different preferences regarding brakes. I prefer to have modulation that allows an easy srub of speed whilst also, with more pressure, max braking.

It might be my motorcycle habit of setting the front forks before calling for max retardation.

However I'm adjusting to the Mac but it is taking time.

Perhaps there is a need for a brake modulation choice like the power maps.....lots of modulation, less modulation and 6th modulation.

I'll have a word with Ron.

Well understood, RIC. But we must be careful to distinguish between preferences and defects. If something clearly does not work properly, then yes there should be a unilateral decision to correct it. However, using my CCBs every day, including stop and go traffic, I can assure you that they work properly. I can understand that they feel different from other systems, but to me that is a preference, not a defect, and no different than how Pre-Cog works, for example.

Definitely, McLaren must be inundated daily with feedback that is preference-related and I do not envy the task of sorting it all out. Some want the paddles on the steering column like their Ferrari. Some want the steering wheel rim to be fatter like their BMW. Some want the brake pedal to be softer. Some want a conventional door mechanism instead of the touch sensor. Some even want conventional doors instead of the dihedral. And I'm sure if we made a poll, some would even want a naturally aspirated motor instead of the twin turbo, to Hell with the extra weight and reduced performance!! There is a name for this phenomenon, especially in the automotive industry, called "design by committee" and it is guaranteed to result in a sh!t product with no identity of its own.

They already made the paddle action lighter while I was sleeping and made the induction sound in track so loud that they now have to provide a means to undo it. That's enough changing "preferences" for me. Stick to the vision!