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Seems like a track only version of the P72. Before they deliver that, though, they should first finish the P72. The prototypes you see at the moment still have the engine and gearbox from the Apollo IE - which is a bit strange to say the least, since what is the point of testing a car with an engine and gearbox it won't have? It seems more like they are still in the phase of showing the car off to raise money to actually develop it. And with that they probably shouldn't be announcing another car!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Seems like a track only version of the P72. Before they deliver that, though, they should first finish the P72. The prototypes you see at the moment still have the engine and gearbox from the Apollo IE - which is a bit strange to say the least, since what is the point of testing a car with an engine and gearbox it won't have? It seems more like they are still in the phase of showing the car off to raise money to actually develop it. And with that they probably shouldn't be announcing another car!
They will annonce a Track Only Car and a LMH.

P72 in production in Q2/Q3 2023.
 

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Seems like a track only version of the P72. Before they deliver that, though, they should first finish the P72. The prototypes you see at the moment still have the engine and gearbox from the Apollo IE - which is a bit strange to say the least, since what is the point of testing a car with an engine and gearbox it won't have? It seems more like they are still in the phase of showing the car off to raise money to actually develop it. And with that they probably shouldn't be announcing another car!
De Tomaso is testing V8 prototypes since beginning of this year. Several of them. Just look on their Instagram, they all have the Coyote V8.

There is only one V12 prototype which was first shown in red and later was repainted in light blue. This is also just a one off- as it was a Apollo IE originally. The Black carbon one that stood alongside the purple one at the launch to be precise. So no, no more V12 prototypes as far as I'm concerned
 

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De Tomaso is testing V8 prototypes since beginning of this year. Several of them. Just look on their Instagram, they all have the Coyote V8.

There is only one V12 prototype which was first shown in red and later was repainted in light blue. This is also just a one off- as it was a Apollo IE originally. The Black carbon one that stood alongside the purple one at the launch to be precise. So no, no more V12 prototypes as far as I'm concerned

Green one with a V12 - and they specifically point out it's a prototype.


Green and blue one with V12s - so they are not the same car repainted


Light pastel blue one with a V12

So far they seem to have made more V12 prototypes than the V8 ones... Well, good luck to them...
 

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Green one with a V12 - and they specifically point out it's a prototype.


Green and blue one with V12s - so they are not the same car repainted


Light pastel blue one with a V12

So far they seem to have made more V12 prototypes than the V8 ones... Well, good luck to them...
I'm baffled. The white prototype being seen alongside with the green and blue one, is featuring the Coyote V8 as it is the vehicle that they used for the cold testing (prototype Isabella)(at least that what I think as they feature the same early stage tail lights but who knows), also the light blue car got a light green paint job with the number on it..
I automatically thought the other two cars also featured the V8 as the V12 doesn't make production.
I mean why bother building another two V12s if you have a V8 running and only used the first V12 because you already had one (Apollo).

Maybe they are planning to use the V12 still? In the race version perhaps?

Also there is a purple gold prototype at their factory which uses who knows what engine.

Either way wish them their best I really do enjoy them.
Also: good eye
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The De Tomaso P900!
Vehicle Tire Wheel Hood Water

  • Track Only
  • Package weighs only 900 kg (dry)
  • 900 hp carbon neutral NA V12
  • Revs up to 12,300 rpm
  • 18 units
Iconic name reveals new project fitted with an all-new bespoke V12 engine and track-focused aero.

De Tomaso has joined the ultra high-end, multi-million pound, track-focused hypercar market with this, the P900. Limited to just 18 units, the $3 million (just under £2.5m at current exchange rates) vehicle offers the startling numbers of 900hp and 900kg (dry), ensuring suitably dramatic performance.

It has entered into a strategic partnership with the highly respected German engineering firm Capricorn GmbH, and is about to open a new facility based at the Nurburgring, where the P900 and its other cars will be designed, developed and validated.
Wheel Vehicle Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire

The P900 is evidence of that working relationship bearing fruit. Inspired by the discovery of original drawings that showed De Tomaso founder Alejandro De Tomaso had dreams of creating his own V12 back in the 1960s, it combines a new carbonfibre tub chassis with a naturally aspirated V12. However, this isn’t the V12 that was seen in the P72 back in 2019, but rather an all-new engine designed specifically for De Tomaso by Capricorn. It’s a 60-degree V12, of 6.2-litre displacement, that revs to 12,300rpm and when combined with an Xtrac sequential gearbox makes for a powertrain package that weighs just 220kg. De Tomaso is claiming it to be the lightest, shortest V12 to yet reach production.
Vehicle Automotive lighting Hood Automotive design Car

The P900 features an active ‘DRS’-capable rear wing and extensive underbody aero management as well as the wings visible in the imagery, all apparently validated in an F1-spec windtunnel (believed to be the former Toyota F1 facility). Although the first cars will be ready in the summer of next year, the powertrain will take longer to develop and isn’t expected to be fully signed off until late 2024. Therefore, if any of the 18 buyers can’t wait that long De Tomaso is offering an interim powertrain solution that features a re-worked Judd V10. P900 buyers can also choose to join ‘De Tomaso Competizione’, a driver’s club that will organise and help run the car for owners at circuits.
Wheel Vehicle Car Automotive lighting Motor vehicle
 

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Looks great (same as the P72), but I am a bit skeptical towards... well, pretty much every single one of their claims!

900kg... when the base car weighs (at least) 1250kg and already is pretty stripped out. 220kg for the engine+gearbox, that would mean that the engine is around ~140kg - which seems very optimistic for a 6.2L V12 (the V12 in the T.50S is 162kg and that's only 4L). I think the only reasonable way you could get it that light is if the engine is like most race car engines and only lasts 3000-5000km. Which is incidentally, exactly how long the Judd V10 replacement lasts (and also weighs around 140kg).

And since we are discussing the engine, if it really revs to 12300 RPM, then 900hp is a pretty poor result to get out of 6.2L. If the engine produced at least 120Nm/L (which is relatively low for a race engine), then let's say at 11500RPM the engine should make about 1100hp! So something isn't right here. Either the horsepower figure is wrong (strange to quote a lower figure than the engine can achieve), the displacement is wrong (again, a weird mistake to make) or it actually doesn't rev to 12300... Which brings me to my next point, that this is a "completely new V12". They've been using a version of the Ferrari 6.3 V12 in the prototypes and in the Apollo IE, and I suspect this just might be another version of that. The race version of this engine in the Ferrari FXX-K produced around 860PS and also the engine was supposed to weigh 225kg - both figures pretty close to this "new" De Tomaso engine (if the 220kg was just for the engine - as some articles state - and not for the whole package with gearbox included). Obviously, though, it only revs to 9500RPM, not 12300. It would also explain how they had enough money to develop a new engine... they probably didn't.

Lastly, they say the cars will be ready in Summer 2023, but seeing that they so far only have renders and not even pictures of the real car, that seems exceedingly unlikely.
 

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Looks great (same as the P72), but I am a bit skeptical towards... well, pretty much every single one of their claims!

900kg... when the base car weighs (at least) 1250kg and already is pretty stripped out. 220kg for the engine+gearbox, that would mean that the engine is around ~140kg - which seems very optimistic for a 6.2L V12 (the V12 in the T.50S is 162kg and that's only 4L). I think the only reasonable way you could get it that light is if the engine is like most race car engines and only lasts 3000-5000km. Which is incidentally, exactly how long the Judd V10 replacement lasts (and also weighs around 140kg).

And since we are discussing the engine, if it really revs to 12300 RPM, then 900hp is a pretty poor result to get out of 6.2L. If the engine produced at least 120Nm/L (which is relatively low for a race engine), then let's say at 11500RPM the engine should make about 1100hp! So something isn't right here. Either the horsepower figure is wrong (strange to quote a lower figure than the engine can achieve), the displacement is wrong (again, a weird mistake to make) or it actually doesn't rev to 12300... Which brings me to my next point, that this is a "completely new V12". They've been using a version of the Ferrari 6.3 V12 in the prototypes and in the Apollo IE, and I suspect this just might be another version of that. The race version of this engine in the Ferrari FXX-K produced around 860PS and also the engine was supposed to weigh 225kg - both figures pretty close to this "new" De Tomaso engine (if the 220kg was just for the engine - as some articles state - and not for the whole package with gearbox included). Obviously, though, it only revs to 9500RPM, not 12300. It would also explain how they had enough money to develop a new engine... they probably didn't.

Lastly, they say the cars will be ready in Summer 2023, but seeing that they so far only have renders and not even pictures of the real car, that seems exceedingly unlikely.
Agree that the weight and power is interesting enough. The car is beautiful, but 900 kg dry for a car that big is quite an accomplishment, although with fluids that'll put it more in the 1050 kg range. I just don't believe the engine/trans weight. 220 kg would be absurd for an engine that big with transmission. Valkyrie's engine alone for comparison is 206 kg. Does that include ancillaries? Also, the radiator sizing would have to be bigger than T.50s.

As for power, they're saying it runs purely on synthetic carbon neutral fuels. Maybe that introduces inefficiency?

All that said, even if this had 860 hp and was 1000ish kg, that is a seriously beautiful (styling reminds me of Gaudí) and fun car to play with. Seems like development just started and these are target figures, where T.50s numbers have pretty much been locked in (Cosworth dyno development done and as built weights from regular T.50 with add/delete factored in).
 

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Am I the only one (aside from Glickenhaus ofc) that thinks the overexaggerated front and rear wheel bulges make it look like a caricature of the era/car its trying to imitate?
If you focus on the back wheel in this angle it looks like a Dino that tried to get butt injections to like like a Ferrari P car. I've seen it in person and it doesn't look as bad but the excess volume makes it feel overweight.

Also does anyone get the feeling that the owners are using the "prototype" designation as a loophole to bypass emissions and crash compliance? Although I guess there is some plausible deniability. How did that saying go again? (be a billionaire so you can) Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life?
 

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Am I the only one (aside from Glickenhaus ofc) that thinks the overexaggerated front and rear wheel bulges make it look like a caricature of the era/car its trying to imitate?
If you focus on the back wheel in this angle it looks like a Dino that tried to get butt injections to like like a Ferrari P car. I've seen it in person and it doesn't look as bad but the excess volume makes it feel overweight.

Also does anyone get the feeling that the owners are using the "prototype" designation as a loophole to bypass emissions and crash compliance? Although I guess there is some plausible deniability. How did that saying go again? (be a billionaire so you can) Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life?
I have a glickenhaus ordered and I think it's over exaggerated. That said, I think it's shooting for that kind of over the top, Cirque du Soleil, Pagani drama. Not for me, but I can appreciate those that enjoy it, enjoy it.
 
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