[Calvin C]

Hi,
For the people who have traded their coupe for a spider, how bad a hit did you guys take?
Did the dealer give you a fair price to buyback your car? Im asking because Im looking to get a 2012 coupe, but the more i watch the spider vids, im getting worried i may regret not getting a spider now. BUt there isnt much discounts on the spiders and I doubt the 2012 coupes will depreciate anymore then it already has (at least I hope now). I plan on keeping the car so was wondering if its best to wait till next year and see how much the spider may depreciate or just buy the coupe now and if i really want the spider then to just trade for a spider. The price difference I see now between 2012 used coupe and 2013 used spider is about $80k. If i buy coupe now and decide to buy trade in for a spider next year, will i take a loss of more then 80k? If not, then I fell safe to buy the coupe now first and see how the spider does next year or after. If I wait till next year, it will be harder to find a decent 2012 coupe with low miles if I decide to stay with a coupe. Am i crazy or have others gone through this process when they are deciding on a car? Ive had t-tops, on 2 previous cars which ive never really removed (maybe cuz its a pain to put on and take offf). But I also didnt really like the attention so it usually stayed on. Wife on the other hand loves the convertible. She says, "if youre going to spend that kind of money, get a convertible!" Also, after being in my friends convertible MB, it was pretty nice (it wasnt an exotic so not much attention there). I find my taste may be changing as well so maybe within 5 yrs, my taste will change as well. I do find it very convinent you can just press a button to open up the top. btw, i do LOVE star gazing! Looking up at the stars really calm my nerves for some reason. Unfortunately, lots of light polution where im at. The damn spider is starting to really grow on me. Damnit!
lc

 

[Calvin C]

btw, Ive heard from my dealer that some people trade their new coupes for a spider and then back to a coupe after just a few miles I wonder why). I dont race, track or mod my cars so its just for my leisure. Spending some much needed quality time with the wife.
lc

 

[jkheit]

Get the spider. You should get what you like. (I prefer coupes, but it's all subjective)

That said, there is a potential economic win under the following circumstances.

What you're "betting" on, in a sense, is that the 2013 spider's depreciate similarly to the 2012 coupes, and then you could trade your 2012 coupe to a then used 2013 spider, when the 2014s come out. So if next year your 2012 coupe sells for 180, but the 2013 spider depreciates to about 220, then you're only paying 40k for the upgrade. But then you drive for a year in a coupe, and have some hassle/worry buying/selling the car again.

If you don't mind buying used, then that may make more economic sense.

 

[Calvin C]

Hi jk,
I dont mind buying used. The 2012 coupe is used with 700 miles on it.
The current 2013 spider is also used at 289k with I believe 1500 miles on it. MSRP for spider is 321k, the msrp on coupe is $284k.
thnx,
lc

 

[Markjayw]

50k off on low mile Spiders, 100k off on low mile coupes. Agree you will probably lose less on coupe.

 

[FastZilla]

The coupes have more room inside. Other than that and the ability to go topless are the only real differences in my eyes. Spiders or any convertible usually always resale more than the coupe, they also have higher initial cost than a coupe. How much are you willing to pay per mile so to speak, only you know that answer. If a spider is $20k more than a coupe it should always be about $20k more as it ages. Speculating on values 20 years from now is a gamble. If you want to do some real math, take $300k (initial purchase price of car), put it in a ~7% fund for 20 years, compound it monthly, see what that number is. No add about $10k/yr cost of ownership ($200k) for storage, insurance, annual maintenance, detailing, etc. if you speculate the car will be worth similar than normal investing then why not. Otherwise it's a loss one must accept to have fun. After all the ability to drive and insure your investment is not a bad thing. I did the math on an F1 at $1M purchase, 18 yrs and wound up at $5.8M excluding cost of ownership for 18 yrs.... Look at what they are selling for now.... That's what has me wondering about the P1 considering the are making 6 times the number of road cars as they did the F1.

 

[jkheit]

Hi jk,
I dont mind buying used. The 2012 coupe is used with 700 miles on it.
The current 2013 spider is also used at 289k with I believe 1500 miles on it. MSRP for spider is 321k, the msrp on coupe is $284k.
thnx,
lc

I think a lot of our questions on depreciation will be answered after the 2014s are out for sale.

 

[FastZilla]

One other thought I had was concerning resale, as I reinvented this wheel myself during my shopping for a 12c, is that the only real performance related option on the cars is the Carbon brakes, all other options do nothing for performance (excluding sky's the limit MSO mods, mainly aero). This means a $230k base model 2012 coupe will perform exactly as a $300k loaded coupe. Therefore there is no major incentive to buy a heavily optioned car over a base, example a scud or SV over base because a $230k base coupe will still run a 10.6 1/4 mile and 0-60 in 3 seconds, just the same as a $300k coup will.

My theory is since the cars are performance wise the same, they are scarce and unknown (99.9% chance you will have the only one at your car meet) then who is going to know if your car is base or loaded, only another McLaren owner or serious enthusiast, possibly someone who has researched buying one, etc. therefore if you look at it from a functional stand point you are paying $230k for performance and $70k for pretty, non performance enhancing options, then seeing base low mileage coupes sell for $200k and loaded coupes selling for $220k it does not seem that bad - a $10-20k loss in 1-2 years, not even 5%.

Reminders me of the kid trying to sell a $3k Civic with a booming system, high end wheels, and other bits for $10k.... Sorry kid, it's still a $3k civic.... But I'll give you $3500 because I like the wheels....

Point, the MSRP on the majority of 2012 coupes I saw was in the $260k range , next was in the low $270's and very, very few over the $300k mark. My opinion is that the cars are reselling very well considering the base price. Unfortunately since the options do not enhance performance I believe they are not adding value and looked upon as cosmetic, like the kid with the civic. The best "deal" IMO is to try to find a $300k MSRP coupe for $220k or less - it's a far greater deal than. $265k MSRP for $205k.

Look at Porsche & Ferrari, they both have a 3" thick book of options. 75% are cosmetic, but the 25% that enhance performance really add value (resale) to the car - handling packages, power upgrades, etc. used buyer seek out these cars specifically for these packages, not because one has CF fender liners and the other one doesn't.

Just my stinky opinion.

 

[Mac attack]

One other thought I had was concerning resale, as I reinvented this wheel myself during my shopping for a 12c, is that the only real performance related option on the cars is the Carbon brakes, all other options do nothing for performance (excluding sky's the limit MSO mods, mainly aero). This means a $230k base model 2012 coupe will perform exactly as a $300k loaded coupe. Therefore there is no major incentive to buy a heavily optioned car over a base, example a scud or SV over base because a $230k base coupe will still run a 10.6 1/4 mile and 0-60 in 3 seconds, just the same as a $300k coup will.

My theory is since the cars are performance wise the same, they are scarce and unknown (99.9% chance you will have the only one at your car meet) then who is going to know if your car is base or loaded, only another McLaren owner or serious enthusiast, possibly someone who has researched buying one, etc. therefore if you look at it from a functional stand point you are paying $230k for performance and $70k for pretty, non performance enhancing options, then seeing base low mileage coupes sell for $200k and loaded coupes selling for $220k it does not seem that bad - a $10-20k loss in 1-2 years, not even 5%.

Reminders me of the kid trying to sell a $3k Civic with a booming system, high end wheels, and other bits for $10k.... Sorry kid, it's still a $3k civic.... But I'll give you $3500 because I like the wheels....

Point, the MSRP on the majority of 2012 coupes I saw was in the $260k range , next was in the low $270's and very, very few over the $300k mark. My opinion is that the cars are reselling very well considering the base price. Unfortunately since the options do not enhance performance I believe they are not adding value and looked upon as cosmetic, like the kid with the civic. The best "deal" IMO is to try to find a $300k MSRP coupe for $220k or less - it's a far greater deal than. $265k MSRP for $205k.

Look at Porsche & Ferrari, they both have a 3" thick book of options. 75% are cosmetic, but the 25% that enhance performance really add value (resale) to the car - handling packages, power upgrades, etc. used buyer seek out these cars specifically for these packages, not because one has CF fender liners and the other one doesn't.

Just my stinky opinion.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

 

[Ksbenz]

^ yep. Basically what I eluded to on the last depreciation thread. Seems odd that people are getting bent out of shape about depreciation on these cars, when it has been common knowledge for ever that options, especially cosmetic, add no value to the car in the used market.

 

[azmurciev12]

true that ^^^. that's why if i were to spec my car again, it probably would be just a base car with CCB and save some $40K or so. then the post above would make the depreciation very reasonable if i were to sell it quickly. but then again, i plan to keep the car for sometime and i thought to myself all the cosmetic option i got would really make the car more appealing to me hence i had to get it.

 

[Calvin C]

50k off on low mile Spiders, 100k off on low mile coupes. Agree you will probably lose less on coupe.

50k off spiders? where? Most that Ive seen is 30k off used spiders.
lc

 

[Calvin C]

The coupes have more room inside. Other than that and the ability to go topless are the only real differences in my eyes. Spiders or any convertible usually always resale more than the coupe, they also have higher initial cost than a coupe. How much are you willing to pay per mile so to speak, only you know that answer. If a spider is $20k more than a coupe it should always be about $20k more as it ages. Speculating on values 20 years from now is a gamble. If you want to do some real math, take $300k (initial purchase price of car), put it in a ~7% fund for 20 years, compound it monthly, see what that number is. No add about $10k/yr cost of ownership ($200k) for storage, insurance, annual maintenance, detailing, etc. if you speculate the car will be worth similar than normal investing then why not. Otherwise it's a loss one must accept to have fun. After all the ability to drive and insure your investment is not a bad thing. I did the math on an F1 at $1M purchase, 18 yrs and wound up at $5.8M excluding cost of ownership for 18 yrs.... Look at what they are selling for now.... That's what has me wondering about the P1 considering the are making 6 times the number of road cars as they did the F1.

Whooa, the coupe has more room then the spider? I didnt know that. Did you mean headroom or overall? I thouhgt it was bascially the same car except for the roof.

If its only a 20k difference, i would certainly get the spider. BUt when comparing with 2012 and 2013, the price jumps another 50-60k for a total of about 80k from im seeing.
lc

 

[Calvin C]

I think a lot of our questions on depreciation will be answered after the 2014s are out for sale.

When is the 2014 coming out?
lc

 

[Calvin C]

One other thought I had was concerning resale, as I reinvented this wheel myself during my shopping for a 12c, is that the only real performance related option on the cars is the Carbon brakes, all other options do nothing for performance (excluding sky's the limit MSO mods, mainly aero). This means a $230k base model 2012 coupe will perform exactly as a $300k loaded coupe. Therefore there is no major incentive to buy a heavily optioned car over a base, example a scud or SV over base because a $230k base coupe will still run a 10.6 1/4 mile and 0-60 in 3 seconds, just the same as a $300k coup will.

My theory is since the cars are performance wise the same, they are scarce and unknown (99.9% chance you will have the only one at your car meet) then who is going to know if your car is base or loaded, only another McLaren owner or serious enthusiast, possibly someone who has researched buying one, etc. therefore if you look at it from a functional stand point you are paying $230k for performance and $70k for pretty, non performance enhancing options, then seeing base low mileage coupes sell for $200k and loaded coupes selling for $220k it does not seem that bad - a $10-20k loss in 1-2 years, not even 5%.

Reminders me of the kid trying to sell a $3k Civic with a booming system, high end wheels, and other bits for $10k.... Sorry kid, it's still a $3k civic.... But I'll give you $3500 because I like the wheels....

Point, the MSRP on the majority of 2012 coupes I saw was in the $260k range , next was in the low $270's and very, very few over the $300k mark. My opinion is that the cars are reselling very well considering the base price. Unfortunately since the options do not enhance performance I believe they are not adding value and looked upon as cosmetic, like the kid with the civic. The best "deal" IMO is to try to find a $300k MSRP coupe for $220k or less - it's a far greater deal than. $265k MSRP for $205k.

Look at Porsche & Ferrari, they both have a 3" thick book of options. 75% are cosmetic, but the 25% that enhance performance really add value (resale) to the car - handling packages, power upgrades, etc. used buyer seek out these cars specifically for these packages, not because one has CF fender liners and the other one doesn't.

Just my stinky opinion.

I agree regarding all the cosmetic options.
Im more concern with having options that cannot be easily changed or may be too expensive to mod.

I would like carbon ceramic brakes, alcantra, parking sensors, sports exaust, meridan surround sound with iris and nav, maybe the vehicle lift (my cobbers might scrape the front of car when pulling onto driveway), and a spider which will put me on a 2013 vehicle. If not spider, i would just go with 2012. But cant find these combo.

Are people finding that the vehicle lift is not necessary? I rather not have it, but I may need it. I have to come out at an angle with my gtr to not scrape the lip. Looks like mp4 is lower so was concern with it.

I hate brake dust and I dont wnat to have to replace brakes so soon so if carbon ceramic brakes will save me the trouble and some time, ill include it in my list of needs. Anyone know how long the standard brakes lasts and what it will cost for a brake/rotor change once worn?

Is there only one iris sound system? Im seeing some with surround sound on the stickers. So not sure if there is a difference with it.

lc

 

[Calvin C]

true that ^^^. That's why if i were to spec my car again, it probably would be just a base car with ccb and save some $40k or so. Then the post above would make the depreciation very reasonable if i were to sell it quickly. But then again, i plan to keep the car for sometime and i thought to myself all the cosmetic option i got would really make the car more appealing to me hence i had to get it.

exactly!!!

 

[FastZilla]

Calvin,

Go sit/drive a coupe & spider back to back - if there any differences that you notice, you will notice them at that time. Pricing between the c or s is base for base, what's available on a dealers lot is anyone's guess. For a car with really very few options and only 2 body styles, it's quite a difficult decision!

I have a plywood strip and marks on my driveway where it goes so I don't scrape - lift system would be very nice - one of those options you can't add after purchase. Options like CF turning veins can be added for about $1200 or so more than the option cost if you ordered the car with them.

My advise - get what you want, what makes you smile every time you see it. While no one else will know you bought a base car (if you did), you sure will and it will most likely bug you to the point of diminishing the experience of the car for you. Learned this the hard way myself, now I check every option box I can.

 

[FastZilla]

I think we all need some rational before we spend $60-80k on cosmetics. From what I infer about the McLaren philosophy I see it in the cars, and appreciate it. Lets face it, the "12" in MP4-12c is a performance rating. Therefore if there were different power options then logic has it we would have either 11c or possibly a 12.5c.... You get the point. Great thing is the 12c is a performance standard. I use standard for a reason. Lets pick on Porsche for a minute. Can any normal person at 20ft and 20mph tell how much HP or performance a particular 911 variant has? With the 12c they are all equally badass. From McLarens point (IMO) the world will associate the 12c with badass, not have to issue press statements that EVO or whoever was making a comparison using the base 12c without the PDK, without the Maranello suspension package or the Super Leggera package.

I think the different models within a model (911 being the most extreme example of this) dilutes the model itself (911, Mustang, etc.) You'll never hear "oh that's the cheap 12c, you can beat it" or likewise "that's the 12c SV, I wouldn't race him". I imaging its more like "that's a McLaren, it runs a 10.6 right out of the box" (I used "McLaren" because most are oblivious to the 12c part).

I am glad Mac gives us cool looking CF options and MSO to make our cars subtly unique - we just can't expect the market to compensate us for our identity quest.

Just my opinion a d a different was of looking at things.

 

[jkheit]

Zilla, agree so much. The extreme case is you can have the car gold plated, which I imagine would cost a lot. You may like it a lot. Don't expect to get your money back or be surprised that the market doesn't value your sense of style...

 

[Calvin C]

I just picked up a 2012 mp4-12c with less than 700 miles today at their mp4-12c spider drive event today. Its carbon black/black with carbon ceramic brakes. No carbon turning vane, carbon mirrors, carbon rear deffuser orcarbon front bottom lip. Just carbon interior and lightweight stealth wheels, full leather (no alcantra). MSRP $284k. Kevin and Chad at McLaren Philly made me a deal I couldnt pass up on the coupe.

Also, I spoke with Chad about the new IRIS. I was told it will be available for my 2012 for around $3k. I told hom to let me know when its available. The guys at McLaren Philly are the absolute best. They were patient with me after 3 times there. Treated us extremely well and no pressure at all. I recommend them. Unfortunately, my car will be delivererd this coming Wednesday. They will do the wheel swap for the lightweight stealth wheel and debadge with the stealth badges for me. They are freakin awesome.

I was hoping to drive it home today, but Ill just have to wait alittle. I did trade my gun metal gtr for the 12c. Im sad to see her go, but she will not be forgotten.

Thanks again everyone for all your help.
lc