Thanks for the post, but this article was already discussed ad nauseum (literally, I think some members tossed their cookies) in the Road & Track thread. Krzys even came out of retirement. 
Corvette vs 458 vs P11
MhOU9uOtAWI
They give victory to the 458--but you can literally feel ferrari's presence in juicing the data.
They give victory to the 458--but you can literally feel ferrari's presence in juicing the data.
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Thanks for the post, but this article was already discussed ad nauseum (literally, I think some members tossed their cookies) in the Road & Track thread. Krzys even came out of retirement.
Anyone coming out of retirement deserves victory, good sparring Krzys
Oh I didn't know about this one in particular!! Go MacThanks for the post, but this article was already discussed ad nauseum (literally, I think some members tossed their cookies) in the Road & Track thread. Krzys even came out of retirement.
Lightest possible 458 Italia to be configured for the U.S. market, with over $100,000 on options, still hits the scales at 3,400 lbs (too heavy), 130 lbs heavier than the MP4-12C with the 12C having the big stereo.
The ZR1 is geared long, it is light on the rear end so it suffers when launching, and it doesn't have a trick transmission. However, with its runflat MPSC 19"/20" tires this car lapped the Nurburgring in 7:19s, faster than the MP4-12C and the Italia by a decent margin.
At a racetrack (I don't call a drag way a racetrack), 0-60 mph or 0-100 mph means nothing. I look more to the acceleration from 80mph up to 120-130-140-150, as while exiting a turn at a track I have to limit the application on the right pedal until the car can take it a full tilt, a point that is typically located above 60mph at most racetracks.
On experienced track drivers hands, these 3 cars are very close in lap times.
I would personally place them: MP4-12C 1st, 458 Italia 2nd, ZR1 3rd.
The ZR1 is geared long, it is light on the rear end so it suffers when launching, and it doesn't have a trick transmission. However, with its runflat MPSC 19"/20" tires this car lapped the Nurburgring in 7:19s, faster than the MP4-12C and the Italia by a decent margin.
At a racetrack (I don't call a drag way a racetrack), 0-60 mph or 0-100 mph means nothing. I look more to the acceleration from 80mph up to 120-130-140-150, as while exiting a turn at a track I have to limit the application on the right pedal until the car can take it a full tilt, a point that is typically located above 60mph at most racetracks.
On experienced track drivers hands, these 3 cars are very close in lap times.
I would personally place them: MP4-12C 1st, 458 Italia 2nd, ZR1 3rd.
not to argue with anyone but in my experience different tracks will suit different cars . They can each can finish first depending on the variables imho .
Lightest possible 458 Italia to be configured for the U.S. market, with over $100,000 on options, still hits the scales at 3,400 lbs (too heavy), 130 lbs heavier than the MP4-12C with the 12C having the big stereo.
The ZR1 is geared long, it is light on the rear end so it suffers when launching, and it doesn't have a trick transmission. However, with its runflat MPSC 19"/20" tires this car lapped the Nurburgring in 7:19s, faster than the MP4-12C and the Italia by a decent margin.
At a racetrack (I don't call a drag way a racetrack), 0-60 mph or 0-100 mph means nothing. I look more to the acceleration from 80mph up to 120-130-140-150, as while exiting a turn at a track I have to limit the application on the right pedal until the car can take it a full tilt, a point that is typically located above 60mph at most racetracks.
On experienced track drivers hands, these 3 cars are very close in lap times.
I would personally place them: MP4-12C 1st, 458 Italia 2nd, ZR1 3rd.
I suppose condition were not optimal during the test. The ZR1 with Michelin PSC ZP lapped much faster in a previous R&T Comparison and the MP4-12C can frankly lap faster than the lightest 458. Hot day or what ?
I think the Mp4-12c with Michelin PSC could be the faster of the lot without any doubt
Magazines should also judge lap consistence. I mean if anyone is interested to trackdays you need a car able to lap 20-30m session without overheating mechanics or destroying tires or disc pads in three laps ….
Salut, Arnaud
R&T tested at El Toro Airport in Irvine,CA. I used to run there (many times) with the SCCA and PCA, this is the same place where they shoot the "Top Gear America" TV show. I'm quite familiar with the surface and conditions, given the 71 degrees weather in sunny SoCal when R&T tested, track temperature must have been in the 90 degrees range, and heat was definitely not an issue, there is close to zero humidity at El Toro. Looking at the 0-100mph times, two of the three cars are showing legit number, and one is showing something not quite right.
Motor Trend tested last year and this year at El Toro (same facility) for their 2011 and 2012 Best Handling car of America test. When they tested the 458 Italia in 2011 (car won the test), it ran 11.3 on the 1/4 mile at 125 mph. When they tested the MP4-12C in the 2012 edition of this test 2 months ago, the 12C ran 10.8 at 130mph. The Laguna Seca lap time from the 458 Italia: 1:36.2, the 12C 1:34.5 (almost 2 secs faster on this short track).
I'm convinced that Ferrari brought a ringer to the R&T test, there is no way a normally aspirated 557Hp (the other 5Hp are available at speeds over 150mph), with 3,400 lbs runs 0-100 mph in 6 seconds.
Motor Trend tested last year and this year at El Toro (same facility) for their 2011 and 2012 Best Handling car of America test. When they tested the 458 Italia in 2011 (car won the test), it ran 11.3 on the 1/4 mile at 125 mph. When they tested the MP4-12C in the 2012 edition of this test 2 months ago, the 12C ran 10.8 at 130mph. The Laguna Seca lap time from the 458 Italia: 1:36.2, the 12C 1:34.5 (almost 2 secs faster on this short track).
I'm convinced that Ferrari brought a ringer to the R&T test, there is no way a normally aspirated 557Hp (the other 5Hp are available at speeds over 150mph), with 3,400 lbs runs 0-100 mph in 6 seconds.
To be clear, the track portion of the R&T test was not at El Toro. It was done at Spring Mountain, using the short 1.5 Mile Radical Loop. Ambient temp was 96 deg F and the 12C DID torque down during the lap due to thermal protection kicking in.
Good point. The acceleration tests at El Toro (and the 12C numbers show valid numbers), then the track day in super hot Nevada weather with the heat management protecting and slowing down the 12C.To be clear, the track portion of the R&T test was not at El Toro. It was done at Spring Mountain, using the short 1.5 Mile Radical Loop. Ambient temp was 96 deg F and the 12C DID torque down during the lap due to thermal protection kicking in.
These type of issues: limp mode, my predicted insufficient brakes when using real track tires, and any other is what I'm looking to find about this car. Fortunately, the 12C-GT3 is serving as a test platform, and some upgrades get added in 2-3 years.
Not sure if you knew, since I think you said you drove a standard brake car, that the CCB system has extra cooling ducts that pick up airflow from under the flat bottom. You can see one peeking out in this pic:Good point. The acceleration tests at El Toro (and the 12C numbers show valid numbers), then the track day in super hot Nevada weather with the heat management protecting and slowing down the 12C.
These type of issues: limp mode, my predicted insufficient brakes when using real track tires, and any other is what I'm looking to find about this car. Fortunately, the 12C-GT3 is serving as a test platform, and some upgrades get added in 2-3 years.
Better pics of CCB cooling ducts here: http://teamspeed.com/forums/mclaren/68613-mp4-12c-under-vehicle.html
Better pics of CCB cooling ducts here: http://teamspeed.com/forums/mclaren/68613-mp4-12c-under-vehicle.html
Another example of amazing McEngineering. Thanks for pointing out an important attention to detail that most of us would never otherwise know.
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