[Iron5]

Today I got four new tyres and I tested the 650 spider intensive on the German motorway.

However, I have to say that from zero to 100 in sport mode, this swimming response from the back to the front or even from the sides - called direct steering - somehow takes a lot of getting used to and I always equate it with insecurity on the part of the car.

It's certainly exciting, but can't it do better?

How about the 720 is this different from 0 to 100?

@Iron5 - because you own both and you like both I will get an honest advice from your side. So is the 720 not swimming so much from 0-100?

thanks for all of your thoughts

Both cars struggle with traction, the power is just huge on both. As others write here it is more a matter of tires at 0-100 than 650S/720S. I drive the Trofeo R on both, both slam into the back about the same, shoot off and permanently struggle with traction (you say dem swim). At the rolling start, or accelerating in the third gear for example, the 720S is then already superior, it simply has again significantly more power.

As already written, both are brutally fast and are capable of overtaxing their driver very quickly. I would never push the accelerator pedal hard on either as long as the steering wheel is not pointing straight ahead. Too quickly the rear axle is broken out with both...

 

[Pitpit]

Now I found a commentary from a guy who is driving a 720 which describes best what I experience- so is the 650 a risky car:
LC with 650 S was not so great today at 25 degrees outside temperature with 3.5 s 0-100 , average 3 measurements, ok, passenger and driver around 170 kg together, tank full.

There is not much to complain about with the 650 S Spider, but one serious point: chassis is worse than with 720 S (not surprisingly) as well as with 570 S. 650 S had only 3500 km odometer reading with new P Zero Corsa like 720 S and 570 S . So similar tyre conditions.

If you brake a little later and hard from speeds in a bend at the entrance to the bend with a steering angle from speeds beyond 150 km/h, the 650 S lurches back and forth as if between ruts from left to right and vice versa,
Stupid feeling as a driver then, far away from the 720 S with very good braking stability and much better road surface protection.

My sports car friend with an R8 and X-Bow Racer 360 hp on the racetrack, a very fast one, also complained about this immediately.

Braking stability is lacking in slight curve radii, also criticised by the sports car in the super test, 650 S drives too synthetically, too many interventions by the electronics.

650 S Spider brought back to Böblingen, "Guys, the car is no good on the brakes, does it have a fault? Answer: unlikely!

 

[invisiblewave]

Now I found a commentary from a guy who is driving a 720 which describes best what I experience- so is the 650 a risky car:
LC with 650 S was not so great today at 25 degrees outside temperature with 3.5 s 0-100 , average 3 measurements, ok, passenger and driver around 170 kg together, tank full.

There is not much to complain about with the 650 S Spider, but one serious point: chassis is worse than with 720 S (not surprisingly) as well as with 570 S. 650 S had only 3500 km odometer reading with new P Zero Corsa like 720 S and 570 S . So similar tyre conditions.

If you brake a little later and hard from speeds in a bend at the entrance to the bend with a steering angle from speeds beyond 150 km/h, the 650 S lurches back and forth as if between ruts from left to right and vice versa,
Stupid feeling as a driver then, far away from the 720 S with very good braking stability and much better road surface protection.

My sports car friend with an R8 and X-Bow Racer 360 hp on the racetrack, a very fast one, also complained about this immediately.

Braking stability is lacking in slight curve radii, also criticised by the sports car in the super test, 650 S drives too synthetically, too many interventions by the electronics.

650 S Spider brought back to Böblingen, "Guys, the car is no good on the brakes, does it have a fault? Answer: unlikely!

Are you saying that it is prone to lift-off oversteer? If so, then the 720 is also. This is a difference I noticed between the 570 and 720, the setup was much more different than I expected. The 570 is set up with a bias to understeer, the 720 is not and will oversteer much more easily. I much prefer the 720 in this respect. All that said, if you suddenly shift the weight from rear to front when cornering, any car will oversteer, particularly a mid engined car with a lower moment of rotational inertia.

 

[Hypurone]

If you brake a little later and hard from speeds in a bend at the entrance to the bend with a steering angle from speeds beyond 150 km/h, the 650 S lurches back and forth as if between ruts from left to right and vice versa,

Yikes! That sounds nasty! I have a 650 Coupe and I have never had anything like that! It can go into a drift a bit, but then settles down.... I have to say that these brakes are the BEST I have ever abused!

 

[Anthony D]

Yeah, I am definitely wondering if there is something wrong or off mechanically, because from all the research I have done and seen, that shouldn’t be happening.

 

[Pitpit]

@invisiblewave Are you saying that it is prone to lift-off oversteer? yes this the right description.

i do not know what happens if you brake in a curve at 150 km/h or more and it oversteers, is that really safe?

 

[Whiskey]

Compared to my high powered Vipers of the past, included my championship winning race viper...the 650S is EASY to dance with. Yes you can get it to let loose in the rear end but you have to either do something really dumb or work pretty to coax that rear end around. Even under hard braking my 650S just squats and stay pretty wiggle free. Try such things in a viper (any Generation of the 5...but new was better) and you'll end up swapping end. At best it wiggles under hard braking and you have to expect and mange it accordingly.

 

[invisiblewave]

@invisiblewave Are you saying that it is prone to lift-off oversteer? yes this the right description.

i do not know what happens if you brake in a curve at 150 km/h or more and it oversteers, is that really safe?

I can't speak to the 650, but the 720 definitely is. When you're on the limit of adhesion, the rear end is very controllable with both steering input and throttle. If you touch the brakes at that point, you'd better be ready with opposite lock as the rear rotates. This is not a problem, imo, but it does take some driving skill/experience to control. It's ultimately a faster setup I suspect, but not as forgiving if you get it wrong as the 570 is.

If you really want to hone your skills with lift off oversteer, buy a 964 911 from the early 1990s. You don't even need to be going that fast to get it to understeer severely, and when it does, any lift off the throttle will have the rear end trying its best to get to the front.

 

[invisiblewave]

@invisiblewave Are you saying that it is prone to lift-off oversteer? yes this the right description.

i do not know what happens if you brake in a curve at 150 km/h or more and it oversteers, is that really safe?

To your second point, this is exactly why the 720 is such an adrenaline rush around Silverstone. There are two very fast corners where you can gain a lot of lap time, but if you over cook it going into either of them, you rapidly run out of road on the exit without the understeery nature of the 570 to save you. You can feel through the seat of your pants, just before you soil them, that if you lift too suddenly to avoid running off the road, you're going to be risking swapping ends at 120mph. Fantastic stuff! 😁

 

[invisiblewave]

If you find the rear is loose on entry to the corner, brake in a straight line and turn in early and more gently. This will prevent the rear getting unsettled, and you'll find you're able to control the oversteer by adjusting the amount of steering lock.

 

[groesbeek]

Now I found a commentary from a guy who is driving a 720 which describes best what I experience- so is the 650 a risky car:
LC with 650 S was not so great today at 25 degrees outside temperature with 3.5 s 0-100 , average 3 measurements, ok, passenger and driver around 170 kg together, tank full.

There is not much to complain about with the 650 S Spider, but one serious point: chassis is worse than with 720 S (not surprisingly) as well as with 570 S. 650 S had only 3500 km odometer reading with new P Zero Corsa like 720 S and 570 S . So similar tyre conditions.

If you brake a little later and hard from speeds in a bend at the entrance to the bend with a steering angle from speeds beyond 150 km/h, the 650 S lurches back and forth as if between ruts from left to right and vice versa,
Stupid feeling as a driver then, far away from the 720 S with very good braking stability and much better road surface protection.

My sports car friend with an R8 and X-Bow Racer 360 hp on the racetrack, a very fast one, also complained about this immediately.

Braking stability is lacking in slight curve radii, also criticised by the sports car in the super test, 650 S drives too synthetically, too many interventions by the electronics.

650 S Spider brought back to Böblingen, "Guys, the car is no good on the brakes, does it have a fault? Answer: unlikely!

Well, yes the 650s wanders a bit under full braking, but no more than others. By comparison, my track dedicated Atom wanders a lot more.

Like all Mclarens (even the F1 cars), trail braking is a must. More Lando - less Ricciardo.

 

[gasman]

I use R888R tires.. P-Zero tires are no good ever. Catless and tuned.. P-Zero are scary!!

 

[Excelsior]

It sounds like you need R888R's and a complete four-wheel alignment. I'm assuming you mean the vehicle is fishtailing. Go get an alignment to bring it back to factory street specs first. The previous owner could have gotten a track alignment done.

 

[Kev the Ref]

My very first drive in a MacLaren was in a 720 and I was so excited that I wanted to get a MacLaren. Then I learned that the 650 is the less sensitive car. Now I own a 650 spider but I wonder if I don't miss some speed. Admittedly, I only drive on German motorways and not on race tracks. What do you think? Thanks for your opinion.

You can always trade up when you've had your money's worth out of that one. I'm in the same position my 650S spider is coming up to six years old. But the depreciation is frightening! And the repair bills for things that just wear out or malfunction. I'm not talking tyres here. Radio module £1,300. Seat Adjuster £600. To replace a steering nose lift hose £1,060!!!!

 

[Pitpit]

@kev the rev: so it seems you don’t have a guarantee on your car.

general question for cars with high mileage - do the McLaren ˋs with mileage over 30 000 tend to get more repair necessities than other brands

 

[Anthony D]

@kev the rev: so it seems you don’t have a guarantee on your car.

general question for cars with high mileage - do the McLaren ˋs with mileage over 30 000 tend to get more repair necessities than other brands

No, like many have said, most of the cars with higher mileage tend to be more trouble free.