McLaren Life banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Last week I had the dealer correct the seat functions they broke when they resync'd my airbake (having the tool myself can't come soon enough). I hadn't done launch control since early June and I took some people for rides after leaving the dealer and was met with clutch temperature warnings and faults. One is a clutch high temperature warning then a little later a clutch temperature too high fault which cuts power. It only does it with launch control and drives normal otherwise.

Now, that being said, I've topped off engine coolant (clutches cool from it) and checked clutch fluid as well and added as it was low. It seems to do it if I drive 30 minutes first but not immediately after reaching operating temps, so there is an apparent temperature trigger.

Any ideas of what could be checked? Possible solutions? I really hope it's not the clutch going out, I also wish I knew the parameters for triggering and the ability to log that.
 

·
Trusted Source for McLaren Performance
Joined
·
216 Posts
Yes, you may have a compromised waterpump. Please see the cooling circuit blog post on our website for more info:

 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, you may have a compromised waterpump. Please see the cooling circuit blog post on our website for more info:

So that would effect it ONLY when doing launch control, not in any other driving? How would I test the pump? Can I assume it's a mechanical pump and not an electric one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
pump is engine driven. check any sensor connections.
if i understand you. only does it when launch control is activated?
 

·
Trusted Source for McLaren Performance
Joined
·
216 Posts
So that would effect it ONLY when doing launch control, not in any other driving?
Just to clarify, the error is about clutch cooling temps being too high. Launches put the most heat into the low temp circuits, so they have the ability to have the most impact.

How would I test the pump?
If a failing water pump was the cause, we would also expect to see high IATs. This is something easily logged over the OBDII CANBUS. Separate from this, you may see leaks from around the waterpump that indicates a failure. Keep in mind, this is not a diagnosis, just a potential failure point.

Here are waterpump failure pics from another thread:



Can I assume it's a mechanical pump and not an electric one?
Yes, it is mechanical.
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
pump is engine driven. check any sensor connections.
if i understand you. only does it when launch control is activated?
It doesn't do it when launch control is activated, it does it when I release the brake. Watch how things happen.


Just to clarify, the error is about clutch cooling temps being too high. Launches put the most heat into the low temp circuits, so they have the ability to have the most impact.

If a failing water pump was the cause, we would also expect to see high IATs. This is something easily logged over the OBDII CANBUS. Separate from this, you may see leaks from around the waterpump that indicates a failure. Keep in mind, this is not a diagnosis, just a potential failure point.
I understand more heat will be generated when under a launch, but I feel like it would have to be sitting at the threshold on temperature all the time to trigger it instantly. Another point that is interesting is prior to this error, I never had traction issues on a launch no matter what the tire temperature. Now I can't get grip at all, wheels are spinning. Perhaps there is a clutch calibration problem now out of nowhere?
Last I looked there weren't any coolant leaks visually but I can put it on the lift and check it again now. AIT's I can easily log. What should be normal? 20-25F over ambient?
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Me, in my don't wait for anything manner, went for a 25 minute drive and made some observations. Ambient air temps were 69-71 degrees. AIT's were around 15-20 degrees over ambient, gave it the beans and it went way down then caught back up. On a flat highway maintaining 80 MPH AIT's fluctuated little before going up to 30 degrees over ambient then held relatively stable. The engine coolant temperatures fluctuated A LOT. Initially it stayed around 196-198 but it would randomly drop to 186ish and come back up, one time dropping to 176 and coming back up. After I put it back in the garage I let it idle and AIT's kept climbing rapidly at first then much slower. Within a few minutes of idling it was at 48 over ambient.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
sounds like your pump is working if temps fluctuate as indicated. at idle the iat will go up since low temp rads don't have forced air flow.
possibly need to get your clutch calibrated? we need mds!
 

·
Trusted Source for McLaren Performance
Joined
·
216 Posts
Ambient air temps were 69-71 degrees. AIT's were around 15-20 degrees over ambient, gave it the beans and it went way down then caught back up. On a flat highway maintaining 80 MPH AIT's fluctuated little before going up to 30 degrees over ambient then held relatively stable.
This sounds about right for stock intercoolers. Our race intercooler upgrade normally keeps IATs around 10-15 deg over ambient.


The engine coolant temperatures fluctuated A LOT. Initially it stayed around 196-198 but it would randomly drop to 186ish and come back up, one time dropping to 176 and coming back up. After I put it back in the garage I let it idle and AIT's kept climbing rapidly at first then much slower. Within a few minutes of idling it was at 48 over ambient.
Sounds about right. Heat soak is a major issue on the McLaren platform.

FWIW, we have yet to see a McLaren without a new clutch need a recalibration, but doesn't mean that this is not possible. It is low effort, so worth a shot. If you do not have an indy with a MDS, then your local McLaren dealer can do it.

I
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
This sounds about right for stock intercoolers. Our race intercooler upgrade normally keeps IATs around 10-15 deg over ambient.




Sounds about right. Heat soak is a major issue on the McLaren platform.

FWIW, we have yet to see a McLaren without a new clutch need a recalibration, but doesn't mean that this is not possible. It is low effort, so worth a shot. If you do not have an indy with a MDS, then your local McLaren dealer can do it.

I
Are there any other symptoms or indications a clutch calibration is needed? The closest thing I've got to me is an hour and a half away and wants me to leave it with them for days and I not be involved in the process. The last time I wasn't involved in the process they were going to give me a seat position that all the way back wasn't back far enough, till I got involved. I may have to find an indy shop that has it just so I can be involved in figuring it out instead of getting hit with hours of labor screwing with things that don't need screwed with.

So, the consensus is water pump is good and the clutch either needs recalibrated or replaced then recalibrated, yes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
i would check sensors,fluid level in both tranny and clutch and harness before jumping to that conclusion. or disconnect battery and see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Hahahaha dude is this not INSTANT KARMA or what??? If you had a warranty you wouldn't have to even bother with it, but here you are trying to self diagnose again with no formal training! Take your 12C to someone that knows what they are doing for the sake of the car and its future owners.
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
i would check sensors,fluid level in both tranny and clutch and harness before jumping to that conclusion. or disconnect battery and see what happens.
Check sensors how exactly? I'm presuming they're plugged in fine because there are no errors other than with launch control and heat generated. Could a sensor be giving a false reading? Maybe, but I won't know that without being able to see the data. I did a battery disconnect last night, result is untested. If a battery disconnect didn't do it, transmission fluid level was next on the list which I may do by the weekend.

Hahahaha dude is this not INSTANT KARMA or what??? If you had a warranty you wouldn't have to even bother with it, but here you are trying to self diagnose again with no formal training! Take your 12C to someone that knows what they are doing for the sake of the car and its future owners.
Instant karma? If I had a warranty they'd say launch control isn't covered or find some other reason to not pay out because it drives perfectly fine, even hard driving. You wanna know what the dealer is going to say? Replace the transmission, that's their answer to everything. You don't know what training I do or don't have, but I can tell you I know more than some trained technicians.

Another fine point is I've priced clutches and even if I have to replace the clutch, IT'S STILL CHEAPER THAN A WARRANTY! Some of us actually LIKE working on cars, it's not always a matter of necessity.
 

·
Trusted Source for McLaren Performance
Joined
·
216 Posts
Just to clarify, you cannot rule out the waterpump. An internal seal leak may not be obvious. Your issue is with one or more of the following components (order in probability):

1) Waterpump​
2) Low clutch fluid​
4) Out of spec clutch touchpoints​
5) Bad transmission sensor(s)​
Also, keep in mind remote diagnostic is not practical. The best way to get this resolved is to drop it off to a local specialist. Best of luck!
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Just to clarify, you cannot rule out the waterpump. An internal seal leal may not be obvious. Your issue is with one or more of the following components (order in probability):

1) Waterpump​
2) Low clutch fluid​
4) Out of spec clutch touchpoints​
5) Bad transmission sensor(s)​
Also, keep in mind remote diagnostic is not practical. The best way to get this resolved is to drop it off to a local specialist. Best of luck!
I understand without in depth data it's a guess, what I'm avoiding is leaving it with the dealer for "days" as they put it. I feel like they won't recreate the issue properly as it's very specific and they'll rack up hours that aren't necessary, leaving me with a bill for thousands before actually fixing anything. We CAN eliminate low clutch fluid, already did that and did add fluid. I can't get traction during launch control because there is a lot of wheel spin which makes me think it's not a worn clutch because it's not clutch slip. Would the touchpoints be resolved by a recalibration?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
hahaah yes it is instant karma for you coming onto my video in the McLaren owners page just a week ago ranting and raving about how you don't trust technicians, dealerships, and that you do all the work yourself for less than $500 a year annually. I said you were delusional, and here you are a week later with an issue you cant diagnose nor fix. This is hilarious man, if I had the same problem you're having I would have a brand new loaner car while I know my car is being handled, or my independent shop McLaren specialist could probably figure it out in an afternoon.

Are you still saying the annual cost of ownership is $500??

The McLaren Gods looked down and said, "OHHH YOU think you can fix it all, CLUTCH FAILURE"""

I almost bought that exact car, and I would NEVER have a clutch failure, why? Because I understand what it takes to maintain one, and who to take to maintain it. In other words what you are dealing with is a DIRECT RESULT of you trying to play mechanic on a car more technologically advanced than you can fathom!


You're going to ruin that 12C to the point where no one will ever touch it from a resell stand point, they will ask for service records and you'll pull out your high school mechanics notebook hahaha

Fresh Roots 12C on YouTube for anyone that needs realistic ownership advice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Oh and I hope you're not referring to me as the D Bag. I'm actually a 28 year old McLaren MP4-12C owner that went to the dealership as a 21 year old college student on the shuttle every weekend for their car shows. I told them I would be back one day to buy a McLaren. I worked my ass off, ignored everyone that said it was impossible, and bought my dream car. So no D bags over here except the ones that think they can fix their own McLarens at home and want to argue with everyone that gives sound advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I'm going to go fire up my 12C and go rip in the canyons, sucks you can't do the same bro!!!! Hit up my boys at Total Auto Protect and get yourself that extended warranty or my boy Alex at AW designs can get you dialed in he's a McLaren Specialist, like a real one, like he has a shop and stuff, like he's ACTUALLY a mechanic, okay.

Much Love
 

·
Registered
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
hahaah yes it is instant karma for you coming onto my video in the McLaren owners page just a week ago ranting and raving about how you don't trust technicians, dealerships, and that you do all the work yourself for less than $500 a year annually. I said you were delusional, and here you are a week later with an issue you cant diagnose nor fix. This is hilarious man, if I had the same problem you're having I would have a brand new loaner car while I know my car is being handled, or my independent shop McLaren specialist could probably figure it out in an afternoon.

Are you still saying the annual cost of ownership is $500??

The McLaren Gods looked down and said, "OHHH YOU think you can fix it all, CLUTCH FAILURE"""

I almost bought that exact car, and I would NEVER have a clutch failure, why? Because I understand what it takes to maintain one, and who to take to maintain it. In other words what you are dealing with is a DIRECT RESULT of you trying to play mechanic on a car more technologically advanced than you can fathom!


You're going to ruin that 12C to the point where no one will ever touch it from a resell stand point, they will ask for service records and you'll pull out your high school mechanics notebook hahaha

Fresh Roots 12C on YouTube for anyone that needs realistic ownership advice!
Let's be very clear here, the current cost of my problem is $0, though it is not solved. I'm not "a week later" into it other than looking for answers and I am in the middle of diagnosing and fixing. No, a McLaren specialist will not "figure it out in an afternoon" because I already talked to the dealer (to ensure it wasn't something they did when they fixed what they broke last time, that required MDS) and they said they would have to have it for DAYS.

The clutch hasn't failed, if it failed, it couldn't be driven, but here I am still driving it. It gives a warning about clutch temperature ONLY when using launch control. I'm not "playing mechanic", I AM a mechanic, and I am in fact properly maintaining it by doing the required service on schedule.

Oh and I hope you're not referring to me as the D Bag. I'm actually a 28 year old McLaren MP4-12C owner that went to the dealership as a 21 year old college student on the shuttle every weekend for their car shows. I told them I would be back one day to buy a McLaren. I worked my ass off, ignored everyone that said it was impossible, and bought my dream car. So no D bags over here except the ones that think they can fix their own McLarens at home and want to argue with everyone that gives sound advice.
He is in fact referring to you as the D Bag, because you are in fact being a D bag. The only advice you've given is take it to somebody else and pay whatever they tell you to pay, rather than have a clue about what's going on, NOT get ripped off, and be able to help other people. McLaren mechanics aren't bred in a lab and raised as gods, they're regular people like ME and several others here, who regularly work on cars.

This forum isn't Facebook, they aren't impressed by you acting like an entitled dipshit. Everyone that matters in this thread has been giving some sound advice, which is helping in the diagnosis.

I'm going to go fire up my 12C and go rip in the canyons, sucks you can't do the same bro!!!! Hit up my boys at Total Auto Protect and get yourself that extended warranty or my boy Alex at AW designs can get you dialed in he's a McLaren Specialist, like a real one, like he has a shop and stuff, like he's ACTUALLY a mechanic, okay.
You're right, I'm not gonna go rip in the canyons, because I have mountains, which I can still do. Perhaps you didn't read the thread (you didn't), the car still drives fine. The ONLY fault is with driving for 30+ minutes then trying to use launch control. Maybe you should try the same, right now, and see if yours works.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top