[invisiblewave]

Boy this thread took a turn and derailed. I'm sorry I mentioned the word "Plaid", you all saw one word and ran with it. 😂 It was for the purpose of comparing how software can dramatically affect vehicle dynamics, advanced software suspension tuning and torque vectoring, not pick on the EV scab.

Point was, Chris Harris and Ollie Marriage got into a vehicle that likely did not have polished software at the time. Because they are the #1 car show in the UK, they got an early car likely before anyone else. They both agreed on each other's assessment of the vehicle, which leads me to believe they had an early pre-production version of the 765LT with unpolished software. Two guys with the same assessment of the same car on the same track. Software updates were likely released and installed on all the other journalist demos. Case in point was the Plaid recently went from a noodly suspension to go-kart handling overnight with just a software upgrade. ...now let's start talking about noodles and go-karts. 😆

There's a big difference between the software control on a Plaid and the software control on a 765. No doubt it can make a difference, but not to the degree that Tesla can.

 

[Champagne612]

As is often said, the truth probably lies in the middle. To think McLaren hasn't tweaked ANYTHING from the initial launch would be foolish, as they do this almost every year even with the same model. It's not uncommon at all. Corvette in 2017 with the Z06 overheating comes to mind. So I think there is merit to this line of thinking.

With regard to Chris Harris, it's entirely possible he had an axe to grind with Mac. It's also possible he got a crappy car with bad tires or was in a sh*tty mood that day. Who knows...While I could be 100% wrong, I have a feeling the car he drove the second time was not identical to the car he drove the first time. It's rare journalists get it as wrong as he did with the initial 765LT test. It could've been a complete tweak by McLaren, it could've been something as small as a re-alignment or new tires...But I highly doubt the car was exactly the same...Whatever it was, he seemed to really like it. Now the waiting game begins...likely Q4 for me.

LT is a mix of two proven editions - one of which 2x times the price, set to be a special build.

1500 x 500k simple math - 750M and he took a shot and missed by a country mile.

So the owners put out 750m and he can't explain why he changes his mind - even when asked directly he pivots to a bar conversation - exactly where he belongs.

 

[Mikeyb]

The pal thing isn't exclusive to racing factories etc. people change jobs and careers.
This forum is made up of owners and enthusiasts of Mclaren.
Recently some VIP members in mind only have made a choice to post cryptic and toxic, fair game if they share the experience so we can all learn and or help.

These are tough times for many, these factories are struggling and it's utter naive bs to judge and the ones who do are infants (sorry but had to let that out for all)
As the world comes out of covid, it will be a different place - saying please and thank you showing a few words of respect will be appreciated and not saying those words may get you in a lot of trouble as people are on edge.

Appreciate you saying, do not take it seriously but one might add journalists should be saying -
Thank You to Mclaren for building the 765LT and the owners supporting the brand by the LT selling out before CH said a word!

LT is a mix of two proven editions - one of which is 2 - 3x times the price.
1500 x 500k simple math - 750M and he took a shot and missed by a country mile.
Factory dealers owners all proved him wrong - he is a mess at this level.

you're so far off the mark it's not funny...

the factories take what he says very seriously about their products.. Porsche forever lent him cars as grace and favour if you like..he was driving the 911R around in the UK for months cos prueneniger lent it to him, when the model at the time was one of the hottest things in the car market... he didn't have it for a few days, he had it for months... .they knew that the publicity that he brought to their brand particularly was very important to them... Porsche and Mclaren no doubt enjoy the fact that he doesn't always rave about the latest Ferrari, giving it an honest assessment ...

on top of that whether it be in a porsche or a mclaren, he has proven that he's not just a drift monkey, but in real race machinery he does a very very strong job indeed...

now if you were moaning about the influence of the you tubers, i am with you

but in this instance, without doubt Harris did mclaren a favour... at the very least said 'you might wanna have another think about that'... along with the problems of lap times at certain circuits as publicly acknowledged by mclaren at the time.. you'll remember of course that the development team has changed a lot in the last couple of years, and they are certain lacking a little in development experience relatively... not that Kenny is doing a bad job in anyway, but the guy can control a car like few others, so it may take him a while to understand what an 'average' mclaren driver can drive.. he didnt' do development work before he landed at mclaren to the best of my knowledge.

Again, just cos you personally don't speak to the development team that was involved in the work after the initial press reviews doesn't mean that it didnt happen... and that's without restating that the car is better as a result, so why would people continue to be upset about it..? just cos their opinion doesn't fit with the actual facts of the situation i guess.

was he solely responsible for getting the company to continue the development, no.. was he a factor in it? certainly.. even if the lack of relative pace to the 720 would certainly have been the bigger problem

 

[Champagne612]

you're so far off the mark it's not funny...

the factories take what he says very seriously about their products.. Porsche forever lent him cars as grace and favour if you like..he was driving the 911R around in the UK for months cos prueneniger lent it to him, when the model at the time was one of the hottest things in the car market... he didn't have it for a few days, he had it for months... .they knew that the publicity that he brought to their brand particularly was very important to them... Porsche and Mclaren no doubt enjoy the fact that he doesn't always rave about the latest Ferrari, giving it an honest assessment ...

on top of that whether it be in a porsche or a mclaren, he has proven that he's not just a drift monkey, but in real race machinery he does a very very strong job indeed...

now if you were moaning about the influence of the you tubers, i am with you

but in this instance, without doubt Harris did mclaren a favour... at the very least said 'you might wanna have another think about that'... along with the problems of lap times at certain circuits as publicly acknowledged by mclaren at the time.. you'll remember of course that the development team has changed a lot in the last couple of years, and they are certain lacking a little in development experience relatively... not that Kenny is doing a bad job in anyway, but the guy can control a car like few others, so it may take him a while to understand what an 'average' mclaren driver can drive.. he didnt' do development work before he landed at mclaren to the best of my knowledge.

Again, just cos you personally don't speak to the development team that was involved in the work after the initial press reviews doesn't mean that it didnt happen... and that's without restating that the car is better as a result, so why would people continue to be upset about it..? just cos their opinion doesn't fit with the actual facts of the situation i guess.

was he solely responsible for getting the company to continue the development, no.. was he a factor in it? certainly.. even if the lack of relative pace to the 720 would certainly have been the bigger problem

I don't think you understand my position - Mclaren company it's workers it's dealers and customers were all financially hurt by a statement. Fast forward CH and another were speaking on camera about the 765LT. The other person offers suggestions of what changed in the 765LT - Chris pivots to a bar conversation and tires.

If he was a factor as you say - prove me wrong by his words actions not your words / actions. CH was part of the development at Mclaren - says you but not him?

Does that not seem odd? He could have played the hero each time - you are writing a script for him and if it happened and the few who do know should have never allowed him to speak without justification.

Anyone can pick something to pieces - anyone worth their salt does not. Helped a lot of people and companies but never hurt them and say I did you a favor - it's literally senseless. Mclaren like others in these times need help and that's what men do - they don't go around hurting people because they can as he did on a 750M project effecting even more companies people jobs etc. GO ahead and pat him on the back - that is your decision.

 

[invisiblewave]

I don't think you understand my position - Mclaren company it's workers it's dealers and customers were all financially hurt by a statement. Fast forward he and another were speaking about the 765LT. The other person offers suggestions of what changed in the 765LT - Chris pivots to a bar conversation and tires.

If he was a factor as you say - prove me wrong by his words actions not your words / actions.

He had the perfect opportunity ... silence pivot is what people do when they have no answer as they are the problem not the solution.

This is a case where he is a problem and if you won't call it - that's your choice just as it is mine.

Anyone can pick something to pieces - anyone worth their salt does not. I have helped a lot of companies but would never hurt them and say I did you a favor - it's literally senseless.

You seem to be completely misunderstanding the role of a journalist/entertainer.

 

[sailfly]

There's a big difference between the software control on a Plaid and the software control on a 765. No doubt it can make a difference, but not to the degree that Tesla can.

For any of the high hp turbo cars these days I think the software can still make a big difference. From what I remember from the initial reviews the only ones who panned it were the ones who had egos big enough so that they only drove it with everything off. Everyone who drove it in ESC dynamic seemed to like it.

 

[sailfly]

I don't think you understand my position - Mclaren company it's workers it's dealers and customers were all financially hurt by a statement. Fast forward CH and another were speaking on camera about the 765LT. The other person offers suggestions of what changed in the 765LT - Chris pivots to a bar conversation and tires.

If he was a factor as you say - prove me wrong by his words actions not your words / actions. CH was part of the development at Mclaren - says you but not him?

Does that not seem odd? He could have played the hero each time - you are writing a script for him and if it happened and the few who do know should have never allowed him to speak without justification.

Anyone can pick something to pieces - anyone worth their salt does not. Helped a lot of people and companies but never hurt them and say I did you a favor - it's literally senseless. Mclaren like others in these times need help and that's what men do - they don't go around hurting people because they can as he did on a 750M project effecting even more companies people jobs etc. GO ahead and pat him on the back - that is your decision.

Don’t tell me you think shorting should be banned too…

 

[unmac]

Have any of you guys even tracked a 765? And I mean at full tilt .

Chris Harris doesn’t move the needle for people in real life (he and other journalists just create banter on social media )…. People still took delivery and started doing their own thing and that was much more credible to owners , potential
Owners and the general enthusiast ) .

for those that are pro chris Harris then You need to stop talking in generalities and give very specific info about car set up before /after and what software changes there were if any (15 months a part ).

if you don’t have specifics then you’re just an apologist.

 

[Champagne612]

You seem to be completely misunderstanding the role of a journalist/entertainer.

He was given a 765LT to test two times - his words his actions hurt a 750M project at a time of desperation. Have you ever been desperate and someone kicks you? Would you do that to someone?

Little insight - his words hurt people in ways you have no idea. I grew up in and around the auto industry, where 6 jobs were created for every one worker.

When people get laid off lose their livelihood - perhaps that is entertaining to you.

If he is a journalist, then let CH speak - hold him accountable. He was in an interview - it was brought up directly to him - he pivoted to a bar story and tires.

One quick note - I like you are entitled to a formed opinion. If you want a formed opinion to change offer a reason - don't tell me what I think is wrong it makes no sense to tell someone who thinks different that you are right and they are wrong because you say so.

 

[Champagne612]

Don’t tell me you think shorting should be banned too…

Shorting Chris Harris is my entire premise - if that's even possible.

 

[Jas]

Have any of you guys even tracked a 765? And I mean at full tilt .

Chris Harris doesn’t move the needle for people in real life (he and other journalists just create banter on social media )…. People still took delivery and started doing their own thing and that was much more credible to owners , potential
Owners and the general enthusiast ) .

for those that are pro chris Harris then You need to stop talking in generalities and give very specific info about car set up before /after and what software changes there were if any (15 months a part ).

if you don’t have specifics then you’re just an apologist.

I agree with you.

I have tracked 765LT, as hard as my skill level permitted (at Silverstone). I found it even more incredible on track than I did on road. Although I had more fun with it on road.

My point earlier was simply that the exact car which Chris now loved and claimed was fixed, is the one I drove back in December 2020, and it was flawless back then.

 

[invisiblewave]

He was given a 765LT to test two times - his words his actions hurt a 750M project at a time of desperation. Have you ever been desperate and someone kicks you? Would you do that to someone?

Little insight - his words hurt people in ways you have no idea. I grew up in and around the auto industry, where 6 jobs were created for every one worker.

When people get laid off lose their livelihood - perhaps that is entertaining to you.

If he is a journalist, then let CH speak - hold him accountable. He was in an interview - it was brought up directly to him - he pivoted to a bar story and tires.

One quick note - I like you are entitled to a formed opinion. If you want a formed opinion to change offer a reason - don't tell me what I think is wrong it makes no sense to tell someone who thinks different that you are right and they are wrong because you say so.

He owes them nothing. This is a first world problem, although it's evidently very personal to you.

 

[Scrappy]

He was given a 765LT to test two times - his words his actions hurt a 750M project at a time of desperation. Have you ever been desperate and someone kicks you? Would you do that to someone?

Little insight - his words hurt people in ways you have no idea. I grew up in and around the auto industry, where 6 jobs were created for every one worker.

When people get laid off lose their livelihood - perhaps that is entertaining to you.

If he is a journalist, then let CH speak - hold him accountable. He was in an interview - it was brought up directly to him - he pivoted to a bar story and tires.

One quick note - I like you are entitled to a formed opinion. If you want a formed opinion to change offer a reason - don't tell me what I think is wrong it makes no sense to tell someone who thinks different that you are right and they are wrong because you say so.

It’s not a zero sum game. If his negative review (of any car) causes someone to not buy that car, they’ll likely buy something else instead… from a company that also employs people with families.

You seem particularly sensitive towards his negative comments causing McLaren harm. The 765LT sold out and is still holding up well in the secondary market. The words of one journalist are clearly not enough to swing the demand or image of a car if its owners are happy and are outspoken about their ownership experience.

 

[shack]

He owes them nothing. This is a first world problem, although it's evidently very personal to you.

Actually quite the contrary - he owes them everything and especially his livelihood. Without them and others he would not be "famous" (depends how you define famous IMO) and have a substantial following

 

[ksp]

He owes them nothing. This is a first world problem, although it's evidently very personal to you.

I agree, definitely first world problem...... for us. But the success of the company also affects the employment of many at McLaren and it's suppliers and also us eventually as the more successful (or the less it struggles) the better the development of the cars we buy, long term customer support etc.

 

[invisiblewave]

I agree, definitely first world problem...... for us. But the success of the company also affects the employment of many at McLaren and it's suppliers and also us eventually as the more successful (or the less it struggles) the better the development of the cars we buy, long term customer support etc.

That's a meaningless, specious argument.

 

[ksp]

That's a meaningless, specious argument.

Tell that to those who lost their jobs a year ago. Not the entire reason but anything that influences sales or the reputation of a company will affect peoples lives.

 

[invisiblewave]

Tell that to those who lost their jobs a year ago. Not the entire reason but anything that influences sales or the reputation of a company will affect peoples lives.

Lol. Yeah, that was all down to Chris Harris! 👍

 

[ksp]

Lol. Yeah, that was all down to Chris Harris! 👍

I didn't say that was the entire reason however it contributes to the negative narrative around McLaren that it is doing poorly financially, builds poor and unreliable quality cars which is prevalent online. Whether we like it or not CH is influential to many.

 

[Champagne612]

It’s not a zero sum game. If his negative review (of any car) causes someone to not buy that car, they’ll likely buy something else instead… from a company that also employs people with families.

You seem particularly sensitive towards his negative comments causing McLaren harm. The 765LT sold out and is still holding up well in the secondary market. The words of one journalist are clearly not enough to swing the demand or image of a car if its owners are happy and are outspoken about their ownership experience.

Zero sum game - who was competing. As you said another company will benefit.
Is it a negative review to help another factory sell a car as you state.
When he was asked he couldn't explain his own work product which speaks volumes and he had an agenda - my guess his review had zero to do with LT. I don't believe you take a 720 and Senna and produce a sub par product for a journalist to review on a 750M product but who knows there could be more as others have said - so why didn't he speak when given the opportunity.

Negative review or a lie and if he lied - you are ok with that because workers at another competitive factory received the customers order - very serious act if he lied.

Whatever happened - hope no one was harmed but that hope is far from reality.