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Time will tell - cars at the end of the run are far different from the ones at the beginning.
Factories are constantly tweaking the cars and the reasons / results are mixed. The Senna could have been much faster but the factory literally slowed it down. In the case of the LT it's the opposite which is what I believe A West was alluding to on the Senna. My prior post is lost due to the wet connection - I think perspective and time will prove to be different than CH review.
 

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Cadster - doing searches to spec my 812GTS I read your posts on another forum - congrats on your 812 our spec is similar.

Ferrari could build a cardboard box put a 6 cylinder in it and everyone who actually buys Ferrari's will think it's the best car ever made and if it is limited they will have a temper tantrum to get one. The flip side is the big non owner audience will make fun of the car and it's cost of a cup holder. I have a 7k push to drink water bottle in my Senna :)

My point is very few owners care about Chris Harris or forums - these reviews appeal to the other crowd which is much larger than the owners. A West is a completely different owner as is his experience / appeal to what Chris Harris says or does and the car is subject to his drive that day. A car can change dramatically from beginning to end and there are a lot of examples in cars that do just that - the last cars from the factory or any product are always better and worth more than the first. Performance gains tweaks tires brakes vs Cars & Coffee with a golden handled feather duster owner are worlds apart. You have to take who is saying what and perspective is key.

I run a group of 9k C&C - the conversations from the cars go from Chris Harris likes to real owners are completely different and when a smaller group goes on track is when the real truth of the car comes out. Guys talk about being competent drivers very few exist and are willing to push a car until it spins to figure out the limit.

No offense to anyone but there is a huge difference between someone who thinks they are fast and someone who is.

LT is slightly behind in speed of the Senna - 720 with Senna tech package.
Senna with a few added tweaks could have been much faster but the factory preferred IMO to make some changes to save it's owners from pushing the car near the limit - which A West alluded to in part.
i made them take away that push to drink option... :0 with a gas tank that lasts 20 minutes on the track, i figured i could live without a drink for that long ;)
812GTS is a great GT car. I didnt like my Superfast, it was a GT car trying to be a sports car. In fact i drove the Senna and the Superfast back to back on some twisty roads and sold the Superfast. the 812GTS is just a nice car to cruise around in, it doesnt pretend or try to be a sports car. i think you will like the 812GTS
Oh and yes there are plenty of ferraristi that see no wrong in anything Ferrari ever does, and then there are plenty who dont buy everything they sell and still love the brand. Just like with Mclarens, you can love the brand and still be critical when they fail to deliver...
 

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i made them take away that push to drink option... :0 with a gas tank that lasts 20 minutes on the track, i figured i could live without a drink for that long ;)
812GTS is a great GT car. I didnt like my Superfast, it was a GT car trying to be a sports car. In fact i drove the Senna and the Superfast back to back on some twisty roads and sold the Superfast. the 812GTS is just a nice car to cruise around in, it doesnt pretend or try to be a sports car. i think you will like the 812GTS
Oh and yes there are plenty of ferraristi that see no wrong in anything Ferrari ever does, and then there are plenty who dont buy everything they sell and still love the brand. Just like with Mclarens, you can love the brand and still be critical when they fail to deliver...
Ferrari has it somewhat easier - todays new F car red panels wrapped 812C engine was expected and still well received.
What are the chances Chris Harris gets that car to review. Every brand comes down to the owners and Ferrari understands that relationship better than any factory in the world.
No ADM - you buy in or you don't get in and if you mess up your out.
 

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Ferrari has it somewhat easier - todays new F car red panels wrapped 812C engine was expected and still well received.
What are the chances Chris Harris gets that car to review. Every brand comes down to the owners and Ferrari understands that relationship better than any factory in the world.
No ADM - you buy in or you don't get in and if you mess up your out.
Ferrari has definitely got an effective method. McLaren is in a different stage as a car company though and I appreciate it. I don’t qualify to be a special Ferrari customer and McLaren’s welcoming approach is very effective to get me as a loyal customer.

765LT coupe, keeper for sure. Adding 765LT spider (most likely a keeper, the only non-coupe). I recently wanted something to play with. Found an amazing deal on an F8. In the end, the customer experience made me much more excited about a 675LT so I went with that.

Thank you McLaren for welcoming small fish.:cool:
 

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Track time is important to a lot of people because once you have see how fast track speeds are compared to what you can do on the street, it takes a lot of fun out of street driving honestly. I used to see this a lot with motorcycles. I knew a guy who used to do track days on Ducati Desmosedicis because he could afford them and he had no enjoyment riding on public roads. Fun fact, I saw him highside once exiting hot pit because he forgot to take his tire warmers off.
 

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Ferrari has it somewhat easier - todays new F car red panels wrapped 812C engine was expected and still well received.
What are the chances Chris Harris gets that car to review. Every brand comes down to the owners and Ferrari understands that relationship better than any factory in the world.
No ADM - you buy in or you don't get in and if you mess up your out.
after chris SF90 reviews.... maybe not ;)
 

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Ferrari has definitely got an effective method. McLaren is in a different stage as a car company though and I appreciate it. I don’t qualify to be a special Ferrari customer and McLaren’s welcoming approach is very effective to get me as a loyal customer.

765LT coupe, keeper for sure. Adding 765LT spider (most likely a keeper, the only non-coupe). I recently wanted something to play with. Found an amazing deal on an F8. In the end, the customer experience made me much more excited about a 675LT so I went with that.

Thank you McLaren for welcoming small fish.:cool:
I don't know - small fish don't buy 3 - 500k cars.
Mclaren / Ferrari those are big boy toys. I think that is the premise of CH. Porsche builds a car for a lot less that offers near the same amount of fun.

I like and own both brands - just saying Ferrari has rules and no ADM which I truly dislike flippers and dealers using fake names and charging ADM and even worse these guys who are you tube heroes receiving limited editions as brand ambassadors aka Ford GT types.
 

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I don't know - small fish don't buy 3 - 500k cars.
Mclaren / Ferrari those are big boy toys. I think that is the premise of CH. Porsche builds a car for a lot less that offers near the same amount of fun.

I like and own both brands - just saying Ferrari has rules and no ADM which I truly dislike flippers and dealers using fake names and charging ADM and even worse these guys who are you tube heroes receiving limited editions as brand ambassadors aka Ford GT types.
Power of the brand, when you know you can sell every car, and the factory more or less decides allocations and if a dealer is invited to put some names forward they will be vetted....
Porsche is in a similar situation with their GT and RS cars
also in general not allowing youtubers to test limited edition cars, trying my hardest to avoid seeing shmee/jwww et al driving a senna badly before getting delivery of my own (which still was the first customer car delivery in the UK) was a low point of that experience...
ADM is a uniquely american thing, glad we dont have that crap in Europe.
 

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Power of the brand, when you know you can sell every car, and the factory more or less decides allocations and if a dealer is invited to put some names forward they will be vetted....
Porsche is in a similar situation with their GT and RS cars
also in general not allowing youtubers to test limited edition cars, trying my hardest to avoid seeing shmee/jwww et al driving a senna badly before getting delivery of my own (which still was the first customer car delivery in the UK) was a low point of that experience...
ADM is a uniquely american thing, glad we dont have that crap in Europe.
US dealers / customers in general are odd - more about resale than enjoyment, which is dealer driven as they prefer used cars in the showroom to be near new - penalizing the customer who enjoys the car.

Ferrari address this by offering the customers with the most cars preferential treatment. Owners who represent the brand are treated with the most respect.
Dealers who charge ADM and play games should be penalized not rewarded. Ferrari knows their customers are self made - tell them what they want to hear and they will listen. Porsche Mclaren and others who tell their customers to pay more is an insult and ruins the brand at the very dealership that is supposed to be representing the brand - nuts!

My hope is Mac and others follow Ferrari like footsteps vs others who's dealers are in it for the short term / opportunists. Mclaren isn't Ferrari but in the auto industry, it still holds true - you lead follow or get out.
 

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My hope is Mac and others follow Ferrari like footsteps vs others who's dealers are in it for the short term / opportunists. Mclaren isn't Ferrari but in the auto industry, it still holds true - you lead follow or get out.
Porsche has been leading all of them for decades. And it is not about retaining resale value. Sure the occasional hypercar retains its value - 918, 959, Carrera GT - but the vast majority of them depreciate like crazy and those of us who can wait get a great car for a fair price.

I personally am extremely happy that my 570 is depreciating like crazy. I bought mine just one year old and it had already depreciated $60k! I almost certainly wouldn't have bought one if it was at the $225k list price.

And now I'm depreciating it as fast as I can by putting lots of miles and smiles on it! If there's any value left when I'm done with it, the next guy who might've only been able to afford a Porsche can have some more fun with it.

And, hopefully, I can buy a new, year old, Mac for $60k off of list again.
 

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Porsche has been leading all of them for decades. And it is not about retaining resale value. Sure the occasional hypercar retains its value - 918, 959, Carrera GT - but the vast majority of them depreciate like crazy and those of us who can wait get a great car for a fair price.

I personally am extremely happy that my 570 is depreciating like crazy. I bought mine just one year old and it had already depreciated $60k! I almost certainly wouldn't have bought one if it was at the $225k list price.

And now I'm depreciating it as fast as I can by putting lots of miles and smiles on it! If there's any value left when I'm done with it, the next guy who might've only been able to afford a Porsche can have some more fun with it.

And, hopefully, I can buy a new, year old, Mac for $60k off of list again.
Ferrari makes an average of 70k per car - world's benchmark brand.
Porsche nor any factory makes a run of 500 cars at 2.7m dollar per and sells out again and again and again using the same engine that is in their cars at .20 on the dollar. Ferrari is on their way to making 10,000 cars and still has a line out the door around the block and down the street - but my point was they don't charge over msrp but the buy in a little rough. I bought a used MP4-12c 10 years ago at a huge discount and lost more on that car going back almost a decade than any other car - fact is still wish I had it as it was a great machine.
 
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Porsche nor any factory makes a run of 500 cars at 2.7m dollar per and sells out again and again and again using the same engine........
Makes a run of 500 cars, or claims they only made 500 cars? ;)
 

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Ferrari makes an average of 70k per car - world's benchmark brand.
Porsche nor any factory makes a run of 500 cars at 2.7m dollar per and sells out again and again and again using the same engine that is in their cars at .20 on the dollar. Ferrari is on their way to making 10,000 cars and still has a line out the door around the block and down the street - but my point was they don't charge over msrp but the buy in a little rough.
But my point was that Porsche has something like 10 times Ferrari's revenue and 5 times earnings (I could be off a little). So Porsche leads Ferrari by a lot. And my point was that it wasn't by making cars that the poor buyers thought would be great investments, but by making lots of great cars that depreciate like every other car, including the vast majority of Ferrari's. Cars are not investments. Stocks and Bonds are.
 
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