CAR mag supertest

16600 Views 109 Replies 17 Participants Last post by zippycar, Jul 12, 2011

6th element

Discussion Starter · Jun 16, 2011

Looks like we should have some tasty stuff by Sunday. Hopefully McLaren supplied a light-spec 12C to take on the cheater 458

, although the GT2 RS could very well spoil the party.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives...s-the-world-the-ultimate-supercar-group-test/

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997

· #7 · Jun 16, 2011 (Edited)

andy c said:
if you watch the 50 sec intro there is a inside view of the gt2 rs with a lap timer saying fastestlap 1:28.9,bugger caught myself being an anorak yet again!!!!!!!

That could also simply mean fastest lap of the GT2RS.

What is the time of the GT2RS on the Top Gear Track? I'd be more than shocked if the GT2RS beats the 12C

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997

· #15 · Jun 20, 2011

So Corsas + Chris Goodwin = 2.1 seconds

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997

· #26 · Jun 20, 2011

The real suspicious thing here is the GT2RS being beaten.

Some Sport Auto Super Test data, lap times and specs here:

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198

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997

· #34 · Jun 20, 2011

iains said:
You are fooling only yourself. The car fails to perform on the test day under controlled circumstances with the same driver. The manufacturer "claims" their car suffered a fault then returns on another day on their own without independent verification and says they beat the lap time. Priceless

While I have some questions about the hydraulic issue have a look here:

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198

Compare the Sport Auto data from the GT2RS to the 458 Italia and look at the distance in the lap times between the GT2RS and the SLS, R8 and the 458 and THEN look at the Car data and see if you spot something.

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997

· #36 · Jun 20, 2011

iains said:
Mclaren are anal about this type of thing and if you think Ron Dennis wouldn't have demanded the car was in A1 order then you really are in denial. He doesn't leave things to chance. The whole reputation of his car business hinges on these tests as both he and MD Antony Sheriff have repeatedly said their car HAS TO BE the best.

That's exactly why something does NOT compute here.

Have a look at the Sport Auto data I posted elsewhere.

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997

· #42 · Jun 20, 2011

iains said:
I've looked at the data.

What no-one seems ready to accept is that both EVO and now CAR have arrived at the same conclusion. The delay I reported by Mclaren in supplying a car to Sport Auto for their group test now seems more and more likely to be true following this second unfavourable result. For whatever reason their car is not performing to the levels they said it would. That is somewhat concerning considering the first customer cars are due to be delivered shortly.

What I am pointing at here is that the Italia did not beat the GT2RS in ANY discipline measured by Sport Auto. It gets beaten in acceleration, on the brakes, in the slalom and in top speed. It is considerably heavier. It loses 2.1 seconds in hockenheim and 14(!!) seconds on the Ring.

All of a sudden it beats the GT2RS in a CAR test. WTF?!

I find it very hard to believe that LEAP is normal. It also lost a LOT of weight all of a sudden and the one tested by Sport Auto already had the light weight options fitted.

At the same time the gap between the GT2RS and the R8 is pretty consistent between the Sport Auto and the Car tests.

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997

· #48 · Jun 20, 2011 (Edited)

GT-TT said:
Guys sorry to bulge into this but all manufacturers cheat. I am a big porsche fan but I know for a fact of a press GT2 from early on that had different software with more power and a lot more torque. I know for a fact, i tried it.
The ferrari at -100kgs only needed to add some very sticky tires and maybe adjust geometry. Heck an invisible software update could give it another 10hp or so. The results suggest that this car had tweeks to optimise performance.
As for the macca, I think they are new to this car review game but they are definitely learning

How can the Italia have lost a lot of weight compared to the one which was tested at Sport Auto which already had the light weight options fitted??

I don't recall exactly where but in the comments on one of the magazine's sites on this debate someone said that he doesn't believe the Italia makes 570hp based on a customer car he had on his dyno

All of a sudden this Italia is faster than a GT2RS which beat the Italia in EVERY discipline Sport Auto measured.

Somehow I don't think only an extra 10hp would do it and just very sticky tyres don't explain the shedding of a LOT of weight.

IF Porsche cheats on the Power then at least it is easy for a customer to do the same thing and load some custom software....

I think you are right, this is probably a wake up call in Woking about the car review game

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997

· #50 · Jun 21, 2011 (Edited)

GT-TT said:
thats why this ferrari was optimized or a ringer or whatever you want to call it..
-100 kgs is stratospheric difference when you are cornering or braking.

This whole weight this has been a mystery to me.

Sport Auto had a great article a while ago about engine technology.

Various engines were discussed from the Veyron to a 3 cylinder.

What stood out to me was that the new V12 of the new Lambo was what seemed to me VERY light (if I recall correctly 225 kg or so) and the Aventador still being HEAVY despite heavy use of carbon fibre.

A press release stated that the gearbox of the 12C GT3 is 80 kg (!!) lighter than the dual clutch one of the regular 12C.

The whole drivetrain of the Caparo I think I saw quoted somewhere at 130 kg.

I am assuming that drivetrain means engine+gearbox. An Aventador is about THREE times the weight of a Caparo.

Now I am not for a minute suggesting a Caparo is good for anything except track use but still I find the weight of all these cars (12C, 458 Italia, Aventador) quite HIGH.

Where is all that lard hiding and how does Ferrari manage to shed that much weight without stripping out the interior and making it obvious?

I'd REALLY like to know more about that topic but unfortunately I do not know anyone on a design team of any super car. Talking to sales and marketing people about those kind of details seems a bit futile if you ask me.

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