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Discussion Starter #1
Just back from the opening of the new McLaren Birmingham showroom.

Shared with Rolls Royce, very impressive and the largest one in Europe.

Waited ages to try and speak to Antony Sheriff, but never managed to.

Was speaking with the UK sales manager (name escapes, shame on me as I spent an hour and a half with him touring the MTC about 6 weeks ago!) on delivery, etc.

Looks like first customer cars will finally start being delivered at the end of this month or probably the first week of August.

As noted elsewhere, IRIS is only partially functioning with Bluetooth and Sat Nat missing and still a couple of months off completion.

Still, a £5100 discount and a gift thrown in by means of an apology, isn’t a bad result and McLaren will come to you to fully upgrade the software, when all sorted.

They are definitely smarting about the “ringer” Italia and are 100% certain that any customer 12C will outperform any customer 458 in every way.

Whilst in discussions, Greg Levine (Global Sales and Marketing director and number 2 to Antony Sheriff) intervened.

Said that since the magazine reviews they have revised the software for the engine mapping and handling (no specifics mentioned) other than they have made the exhaust louder on both standard and sports versions.

He was about to show me pictures on his I-phone of proof that “the other car” was a ringer, but got interrupted, damn.

Also Harry Metcalfe of EVO fame drove the 12C today with its tweaks and was very impressed, nay, blown away with it!

Very confident of the Top Gear lap time, but unsure how Clarkson & Co will present the car.

I think a lot of lessons learned in letting the press drive pre-productions cars, particularly in the back to back testing and now realise that they shouldn’t have been pressured into providing cars just to meet publication deadlines.
 

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Ha! did they say they improved the throttle response?
Also i hope they decided to put on the software they were running in development that has 20-25hp more :)
 

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Ha! did they say they improved the throttle response?
Also i hope they decided to put on the software they were running in development that has 20-25hp more :)
From what I understand about the intention of the IRIS system, that should be pretty easy, provided the internals can handle the power boost reliably.
 

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the internals can take a lot more than 620hp. For sure its easy to do even from the OBD port but i was told by main dealer last week that he was not aware of any tweeks/improvements to the car since the tests. Also he said that the official response by mclaren would come last weekend, and it did not..
 

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They are definitely smarting about the “ringer” Italia and are 100% certain that any customer 12C will outperform any customer 458 in every way.

He was about to show me pictures on his I-phone of proof that “the other car” was a ringer, but got interrupted, damn.
So were the Gallardo and GT2RS also ringers? Somehow those seem to have been forgotten along the way.

And it is very peculiar that this 'proof' which seems to be available at the touch of an iphone still remains mysteriously locked within the salespeople's heads instead of communicated to the world. The attitude that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the 12C to not have come out on top in every test truly is a major turnoff and arrogance in its purest form.

It would be nice if some of these guys ate a dose of humble pie and focused on the long term aspect of building a car business instead of being poor losers. Sell the car on its merits. There are plenty of cars that are not Ferrari beaters and sell plenty well based on their own unique elements (see Lambo and Aston Martin).
 

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Just back from the opening of the new McLaren Birmingham showroom.

Shared with Rolls Royce, very impressive and the largest one in Europe.

Waited ages to try and speak to Antony Sheriff, but never managed to.

Was speaking with the UK sales manager (name escapes, shame on me as I spent an hour and a half with him touring the MTC about 6 weeks ago!) on delivery, etc.

Looks like first customer cars will finally start being delivered at the end of this month or probably the first week of August.

As noted elsewhere, IRIS is only partially functioning with Bluetooth and Sat Nat missing and still a couple of months off completion.

Still, a £5100 discount and a gift thrown in by means of an apology, isn’t a bad result and McLaren will come to you to fully upgrade the software, when all sorted.

They are definitely smarting about the “ringer” Italia and are 100% certain that any customer 12C will outperform any customer 458 in every way.

Whilst in discussions, Greg Levine (Global Sales and Marketing director and number 2 to Antony Sheriff) intervened.

Said that since the magazine reviews they have revised the software for the engine mapping and handling (no specifics mentioned) other than they have made the exhaust louder on both standard and sports versions.

He was about to show me pictures on his I-phone of proof that “the other car” was a ringer, but got interrupted, damn.

Also Harry Metcalfe of EVO fame drove the 12C today with its tweaks and was very impressed, nay, blown away with it!

Very confident of the Top Gear lap time, but unsure how Clarkson & Co will present the car.

I think a lot of lessons learned in letting the press drive pre-productions cars, particularly in the back to back testing and now realise that they shouldn’t have been pressured into providing cars just to meet publication deadlines.
Brilliant recap- thanks for posting all of that info! Thrilled to hear that they are still perfecting the car. Man, I really can't wait to drive.
 

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Why the change in the software?........because of the shellacking they took on fifth gear......is this change on customer specs cars or on press cars only.........ala accused Ferrari ........probably getting ready for NA/USA testing to avoid the same embarrassment from the UK testing
 

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Just getting back to the Ferrari/McL comparison. I have visited MTC 3 times this past 6 months and on each occasion had one on one's with development, test driver ( Kevin Gerrity?) and marketing.

They purchased a 458 on launch and have driven, analysed, weighed each component etc etc etc so they seem to know it inside out and how it performs.

By way of example I mentioned how the 458 did not change down the gearbox when in auto mode and the McL staff responded it was because the software is written in xyz code and thus blah blah.

So they know their stuff, technically, but got shafted by the movable Fiat GOALPOSTS!

Naive at the time but not now.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Just a quick update as I forgot to mention last night, I did specifically ask if engine maps, etc., could be adjusted via IRIS, which I was told that it wasn’t and this isn’t the reason for it being a compulsory “option”.

Obviously it is still accessible via other ports on the car.

I think the throttle response was one of the tweaks made since the press reviews and the car can now be drifted more, even though this actually makes it slower when so doing.

The incident with Greg Levine’s I-phone data was a quite genuine distraction and would have done little to satisfy or indeed quieten Widowmaker and the other veracious posters who for whatever reason are becoming increasingly opposed to the car.

That’s fine, but does little for the forum and to say the least, is becoming somewhat tiresome.

I must admit I was wavered a couple of weeks ago, but now just can’t wait to get my car in October (ish!) – please don’t pick up on this, as my definite last quarter delivery date will be known by the end of August.

Also production will be 25% less than expected in year one, so all of us early (luck) adopters will have an even rarer car.

It’s my money and my risk, thanks for all your concerns, doubters, but I’ll just get on enjoying the car however fast/slow, good/bad handling it is.

Quick aside, not many Ferrari’s at last night’s launch, but many Astons (my outgoing car) which says much about the likely McLaren demographic.
 

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Just a quick update as I forgot to mention last night, I did specifically ask if engine maps, etc., could be adjusted via IRIS, which I was told that it wasn’t and this isn’t the reason for it being a compulsory “option”.

Obviously it is still accessible via other ports on the car.

I think the throttle response was one of the tweaks made since the press reviews and the car can now be drifted more, even though this actually makes it slower when so doing.

The incident with Greg Levine’s I-phone data was a quite genuine distraction and would have done little to satisfy or indeed quieten Widowmaker and the other veracious posters who for whatever reason are becoming increasingly opposed to the car.

That’s fine, but does little for the forum and to say the least, is becoming somewhat tiresome.

I must admit I was wavered a couple of weeks ago, but now just can’t wait to get my car in October (ish!) – please don’t pick up on this, as my definite last quarter delivery date will be known by the end of August.

Also production will be 25% less than expected in year one, so all of us early (luck) adopters will have an even rarer car.

It’s my money and my risk, thanks for all your concerns, doubters, but I’ll just get on enjoying the car however fast/slow, good/bad handling it is.

Quick aside, not many Ferrari’s at last night’s launch, but many Astons (my outgoing car) which says much about the likely McLaren demographic.
Another anecdote from the manchester opening to show that they are still developing the car right to the end (just like an f1 car) was that i asked how you got in the car if the battery was flat (we all know how to get out with the leather strap behind the seat if all else fails)
The production manager went to show me a little button under the side strake behind the door opening,when he found it wasnt there,he went to the other side,also not there!
After ringing the MTC,there and then (10pm)he told me they had only just made a small improvement which even he didnt yet know about,now there is a small hole where you put in your key ,which releases a panel where you can put in your key to open the latch,so well hidden you have to know its there.
Am i an anorack or what!!!!!
I assume your key is in the fob ,like many modern cars
 

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Another anecdote from the manchester opening to show that they are still developing the car right to the end (just like an f1 car) was that i asked how you got in the car if the battery was flat (we all know how to get out with the leather strap behind the seat if all else fails)
The production manager went to show me a little button under the side strake behind the door opening,when he found it wasnt there,he went to the other side,also not there!
After ringing the MTC,there and then (10pm)he told me they had only just made a small improvement which even he didnt yet know about,now there is a small hole where you put in your key ,which releases a panel where you can put in your key to open the latch,so well hidden you have to know its there.
Am i an anorack or what!!!!!
I assume your key is in the fob ,like many modern cars
Very cool, Andy. I love these details- great for us that still have some time before our dealers open shop.
 

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The incident with Greg Levine’s I-phone data was a quite genuine distraction and would have done little to satisfy or indeed quieten Widowmaker and the other veracious posters who for whatever reason are becoming increasingly opposed to the car.

That’s fine, but does little for the forum and to say the least, is becoming somewhat tiresome.
Yes, it has become tiresome, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, as the moderator (user "RWD") does seem to be aware of the trolling activity.

I believe the reason we are getting so many right now is because, even on ferrarichat, they are not getting the response that they want. A well-known ferrarichat cheerleader recently started a thread to rally the troops and petition McLaren to "stop their bad business practices" (i.e. letting their customers know the truth about the comparison tests). He didn't quite get the response he was expecting; basically, several other Ferrari owners told him to stop wasting their time, more or less. Seems the majority of Ferrari's customers already know or suspect the truth and they are just fine with it.

Unfortunately, that makes this forum the next best target for trolls, whose sole purpose is to bash the 12C or ignite arguments, without otherwise contributing to the McLaren-focused community we are trying to build here. Although I have been susceptible, myself, to being dragged into conflict, the best response is to simply ignore their posts. For those of you who do not know how to do this, click on the offending user's name, then User Lists, then "Add to Ignore List". After that, you will not see the content of any of their posts. If the trolling becomes persistent, send "RWD" a Private Message and direct him to the thread and/or user.
 

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Also went to the launch last night:

Graphite grey looks fantastic. It had black leather with grey leather inserts in the seats/ grey contrast stitching which I hadn't seen before and was uber cool - wish I'd specced it. Will get some photos when I next visit. Also had white, which looked v.nice, but a bit blingy for me.

Pulled them up on some panel gaps, and was told that these were V1 cars, and they had received a few remarks from other launches about them. These are being addressed in subsequent customer cars. As a result of feedback they have also remapped the throttle response, softened the paddle-shift action, increased intake noise, and adjusted steering/damper response. They were at pains to tell me they've built a car based on what they think customer's want, and and will continue to develop and refine it based on reviews/feedback. If they have changed all the above, it shows they're listening, and for me this is more important than anything else.

They were obviously embarrassed by some of the reviews, but I was told by several Mc people to 'just watch' the TG review this w/e. Whether they know it's a great review or just a great lap-time, I'm unsure. A high-up Mc man also told me Evo had recently acquired and tested a customer 458 against a 12C and found the 458 much slower than the press car. He didn't know if they would be publishing anything. Don't know how much truth their is to this, but after their last test I saw someone from Evo on another forum mention he was trying to get a customer car for a comparo.

An interesting fact - according to the Mc dev manager, the door handle operates on a motion sensor rather than pressure, so once you've got the knack you can open the door without touching it!

I must give a special congratulations to the waitresses, never in my life have I seen such a gathering of such stunning women:)
 

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Also went to the launch last night:

Graphite grey looks fantastic. It had black leather with grey leather inserts in the seats/ grey contrast stitching which I hadn't seen before and was uber cool - wish I'd specced it. Will get some photos when I next visit. Also had white, which looked v.nice, but a bit blingy for me.

Pulled them up on some panel gaps, and was told that these were V1 cars, and they had received a few remarks from other launches about them. These are being addressed in subsequent customer cars. As a result of feedback they have also remapped the throttle response, softened the paddle-shift action, increased intake noise, and adjusted steering/damper response. They were at pains to tell me they've built a car based on what they think customer's want, and and will continue to develop and refine it based on reviews/feedback. If they have changed all the above, it shows they're listening, and for me this is more important than anything else.

They were obviously embarrassed by some of the reviews, but I was told by several Mc people to 'just watch' the TG review this w/e. Whether they know it's a great review or just a great lap-time, I'm unsure. A high-up Mc man also told me Evo had recently acquired and tested a customer 458 against a 12C and found the 458 much slower than the press car. He didn't know if they would be publishing anything. Don't know how much truth their is to this, but after their last test I saw someone from Evo on another forum mention he was trying to get a customer car for a comparo.

An interesting fact - according to the Mc dev manager, the door handle operates on a motion sensor rather than pressure, so once you've got the knack you can open the door without touching it!

I must give a special congratulations to the waitresses, never in my life have I seen such a gathering of such stunning women:)
Not just a semi for the car than!!! (sorry just my sense of humour)
 

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Brilliant recap- thanks for posting all of that info! Thrilled to hear that they are still perfecting the car. Man, I really can't wait to drive.
Seems like all dealers now get 5-page standard release for customer to answer queries. Main points, testing vehicle in UK media was prototype and not production vehicle. 458 tested wasn't typical customer spec. These were part of the standard 5 pages distributed to dealers in US UK and across. Quite detailed. Will await TG and some further re-testing on EVO. All facts reveal themselves in the end.
 

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A high-up Mc man also told me Evo had recently acquired and tested a customer 458 against a 12C and found the 458 much slower than the press car. He didn't know if they would be publishing anything. Don't know how much truth their is to this, but after their last test I saw someone from Evo on another forum mention he was trying to get a customer car for a comparo.
Evo are definitely getting use of a customer car if they havn't already, the owner posted on Pistonheads about a week or ago that he'd agreed for them to borrow it.
 

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Just a quick update as I forgot to mention last night, I did specifically ask if engine maps, etc., could be adjusted via IRIS, which I was told that it wasn’t and this isn’t the reason for it being a compulsory “option”.

Obviously it is still accessible via other ports on the car.

I think the throttle response was one of the tweaks made since the press reviews and the car can now be drifted more, even though this actually makes it slower when so doing.

The incident with Greg Levine’s I-phone data was a quite genuine distraction and would have done little to satisfy or indeed quieten Widowmaker and the other veracious posters who for whatever reason are becoming increasingly opposed to the car.

That’s fine, but does little for the forum and to say the least, is becoming somewhat tiresome.

I must admit I was wavered a couple of weeks ago, but now just can’t wait to get my car in October (ish!) – please don’t pick up on this, as my definite last quarter delivery date will be known by the end of August.

Also production will be 25% less than expected in year one, so all of us early (luck) adopters will have an even rarer car.

It’s my money and my risk, thanks for all your concerns, doubters, but I’ll just get on enjoying the car however fast/slow, good/bad handling it is.

Quick aside, not many Ferrari’s at last night’s launch, but many Astons (my outgoing car) which says much about the likely McLaren demographic.
Great update - can't wait for you to get your car. ...glad you decided to stick with it!
 

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Just been given my delivery date, and promised a few nice goodies from Mc as a concession for delays.
 
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