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2012 MP4-12C
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I didn't like the "numb" feeling of my Corsa's and changed to the PS4S's largely based on other's experiences here... I am HUGELY disappointed with them! Aside from all the noises they make, the car has now had "moments" of complete loss of traction at a moments notice on several occasions! Even when FULLY warmed up. They DO NOT handle quick inputs or left/right transitions at speed/hard inputs and the fronts understeer and wash out horribly.... This is at ANY reasonable pressure. I regret getting them every time I drive the car now! GAH!

I am actively researching replacements now... I thought I wanted the GY F1 SC3's but am reading they don't do well without SERIOUS heat in them and forget about getting that when the temps are below 50F. I drive the car hard in temps as low as 40F after getting some heat in the tires (The Corsa's were fine, just horribly numb)... I am now leaning toward the CUP 2 Connect 240 but I know they will heat cycle eventually, long before they wear out...
I use PS4S's for my daily tire and used them for years in autocross. Get them to 160 degrees and they give it up and won't act right for months of driving on them till you wear them down. It's a casual track tire, not a hardcore track use tire unless it's cold out. I still highly recommend them as a regular use tire.

I currently have a second set of wheels with Supercar 3R's and those have to be pretty hot to be useful. Below 55 degrees they'll literally come apart in chunks (friend told me after she did it on her Hellcat) and below 85 degrees I wouldn't put faith in them on track. From 85-105 they're OK, 105-120 much more confident, and 120+ they're maximum grip and fantastic. It doesn't take a ton to get them warm, I have them up to 120 degrees in 3 autocross laps with ambient being 80 degrees or so. Once they get hot, they hold it pretty well. They're definitely responsive, I notice feeling a lot of the road when driving on streets with them.
 
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A great street tire that's not on here is the Nitto Invo. By far better then the Pzero from my personal experience. I'd say lateral grip is about the same but the hook up off the line is far superior. It also has a slightly softer side wall so it's the best riding of any tire listed on the list. Wet traction is one of the best I've ever had in a summer tire. In Florida we get random down pours that are so heavy you can't see 5ft in front of you. These tire still allow you to drive 75mph in dumping rain without hydro planing.

When I replace tires on my 650S Spyder I'll probably go with Nitto Invo's this time around.
 
2012 MP4-12C
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A great street tire that's not on here is the Nitto Invo. By far better then the Pzero from my personal experience. I'd say lateral grip is about the same but the hook up off the line is far superior. It also has a slightly softer side wall so it's the best riding of any tire listed on the list. Wet traction is one of the best I've ever had in a summer tire. In Florida we get random down pours that are so heavy you can't see 5ft in front of you. These tire still allow you to drive 75mph in dumping rain without hydro planing.

When I replace tires on my 650S Spyder I'll probably go with Nitto Invo's this time around.
Any idea how they are in colder temperatures? Say below 50 degrees?
 

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'15 650S Coupe, Aurora Blue
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A great street tire that's not on here is the Nitto Invo. By far better then the Pzero from my personal experience. I'd say lateral grip is about the same but the hook up off the line is far superior. It also has a slightly softer side wall so it's the best riding of any tire listed on the list. Wet traction is one of the best I've ever had in a summer tire. In Florida we get random down pours that are so heavy you can't see 5ft in front of you. These tire still allow you to drive 75mph in dumping rain without hydro planing.

When I replace tires on my 650S Spyder I'll probably go with Nitto Invo's this time around.
Ya know, I was just gonna amend my post to add these! I used them exclusively on my 600HP/585TQ Camaro with great results!! :love:

EDIT: CRUD! They don't make the rears! :mad:
 
2012 MP4-12C
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Just like all the other "summer" tires listed here, they need a bit of heat at lower ambient, but not as much as others...
I went to look at them and found they aren't made in a rear for super series.
 

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Ya know, I was just gonna amend my post to add these! I used them exclusively on my 600HP/585TQ Camaro with great results!! :love:

EDIT: CRUD! They don't make the rears! :mad:
I also used them as my preferred street tire on all my Vipers. They are great to about 800rwhp, 700rwtq but after that...they get loose a little too easily.

Will the 315's work without throwing any type of code? A little extra tire is always a good thing.
 

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'15 650S Coupe, Aurora Blue
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Will the 315's work without throwing any type of code? A little extra tire is always a good thing.
Not sure there is clearance without using a spacer... Heck of a gamble.... Especially since they are 35 series not 30 that the car comes with!
 

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I didn't like the "numb" feeling of my Corsa's and changed to the PS4S's largely based on other's experiences here... I am HUGELY disappointed with them! Aside from all the noises they make, the car has now had "moments" of complete loss of traction at a moments notice on several occasions! Even when FULLY warmed up. They DO NOT handle quick inputs or left/right transitions at speed/hard inputs and the fronts understeer and wash out horribly.... This is at ANY reasonable pressure. I regret getting them every time I drive the car now! GAH!
Im curious where were you driving when this happened (street, canyon/mountain roads, track etc) with the PS4S and what were ambient temps and conditions like?

and were you in ESC DYN or traction completely off?
 
2012 MP4-12C
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Im curious where were you driving when this happened (street, canyon/mountain roads, track etc) with the PS4S and what were ambient temps and conditions like?

and were you in ESC DYN or traction completely off?
I used them for autocross for 3 years and experienced none of that except for 1 time when they were over 180 degrees. They aren't loud at all either, a very comfortable tire.
 
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I was surprised by @Hypurone experiences of the PS4S vs the Corsa which why I asked how was he using them and conditions

My experience with the PS4S on the road when pushed mirror yours and the only conditions I can imagine the PS4S letting go so much vs the Corsas would be either on a track, or maybe on a smooth dry road with very hot weather when being pushed very hard, anything even slightly cold let alone damp and the PS4S should be miles ahead of the Corsas

As for the noise I can say after doing a launch the PS4S will be noisy with a hum or drone for about a km but the noise goes away pretty quickly
 

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'15 650S Coupe, Aurora Blue
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Im curious where were you driving when this happened (street, canyon/mountain roads, track etc) with the PS4S and what were ambient temps and conditions like?

and were you in ESC DYN or traction completely off?
Street driving, backroads, pushing medium & hard... I have a 650, so Track/Track. This lights the TC as off but it is still there unless you do a bit of trickery to get it fully off... Ambient can be anywhere from 50F to 90F... Tho I try not to be out in 90F!! I don't push when below 50F and I don't push a car until there is ample heat in a tire... I experienced all of the mentioned issues at fully warmed and anywhere from 32 cold and up pressures.... Not until I lowered the pressures to 30 cold and they have worn down 4/32, have the tires started to settle down. And even then, a quick transition or weight change (off camber or one side of the car rises or lowers quickly) will break them loose. They seem to lose their heat very quickly as well.... Case in point, I had just finished a "spirited" run and was cruising at 65mph for about 10mins, came to a bend in the road (with a drop off, off camber) that I have taken at this speed for decades in multiple cars in worse conditions and the car stepped out and and went on a full on drift.... Accumulators have been replaced, no warnings or errors related to the suspension etc etc...

That's not my experience either. Might you have got one of the OEM versions (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche)?
They are NON-OEM....

Perhaps I have a set that are the "exception" to everyone's rule about these PS4S's. Which I have experienced in the past with other tire brands. But I don't expect it from Michelin...
 

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2012 MP4-12C
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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Street driving, backroads, pushing medium & hard... I have a 650, so Track/Track. This lights the TC as off but it is still there unless you do a bit of trickery to get it fully off... Ambient can be anywhere from 50F to 90F... Tho I try not to be out in 90F!! I don't push when below 50F and I don't push a car until there is ample heat in a tire... I experienced all of the mentioned issues at fully warmed and anywhere from 32 cold and up pressures.... Not until I lowered the pressures to 30 cold and they have worn down 4/32, have the tires started to settle down. And even then, a quick transition or weight change (off camber or one side of the car rises or lowers quickly) will break them loose. They seem to lose their heat very quickly as well.... Case is point, I had just finished a "spirited" run and was cruising at 65mph for about 10mins, came to a bend in the road (with a drop off, off camber) that I have taken at this speed for decades in multiple cars in worse conditions and the car stepped out and and went on a full on drift.... Accumulators have been replaced, no warnings or errors related to the suspension etc etc...


They are NON-OEM....

Perhaps I have a set that are the "exception" to everyone's rule about these PS4S's. Which I have experienced in the past with other tire brands. But I don't expect it from Michelin...
I dont doubt your experience, but it's so very different from my own. I'm on my 2nd set, both have been super solid. They're even ok for track for about the first 15-20min. They get a bit melty beyond that if youre on it the entire time, and if it's particularly hot. Although these days I track at 7/10ths or 8/10s max, so perhaps you are pushing way harder.

Regardless, you've had a really bad experience so makes that you would look elsewhere.
 

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'15 650S Coupe, Aurora Blue
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I dont doubt your experience, but it's so very different from my own. I'm on my 2nd set, both have been super solid. They're even ok for track for about the first 15-20min. They get a bit melty beyond that if youre on it the entire time, and if it's particularly hot. Although these days I track at 7/10ths or 8/10s max, so perhaps you are pushing way harder.

Regardless, you've had a really bad experience so makes that you would look elsewhere.
Yeah, it sucks.... The really shitty part is, what to use next and not be in the same boat... I guess I go back to the Corsas? I hear there is a newer version out that is better than before....
Font Art Symmetry Electric blue Pattern

I wanna try the Supercar 3's but again, without someone using them at similar pace on a 650, it seems the comparative info would be useless to me.... Tires are very subjective thing, just like exhausts. What goes for one guy won't necessarily light my fire....
Gas Font Heat Pattern Event
 

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Street driving, backroads, pushing medium & hard... I have a 650, so Track/Track. This lights the TC as off but it is still there unless you do a bit of trickery to get it fully off... Ambient can be anywhere from 50F to 90F... Tho I try not to be out in 90F!! I don't push when below 50F and I don't push a car until there is ample heat in a tire... I experienced all of the mentioned issues at fully warmed and anywhere from 32 cold and up pressures.... Not until I lowered the pressures to 30 cold and they have worn down 4/32, have the tires started to settle down. And even then, a quick transition or weight change (off camber or one side of the car rises or lowers quickly) will break them loose. They seem to lose their heat very quickly as well.... Case in point, I had just finished a "spirited" run and was cruising at 65mph for about 10mins, came to a bend in the road (with a drop off, off camber) that I have taken at this speed for decades in multiple cars in worse conditions and the car stepped out and and went on a full on drift.... Accumulators have been replaced, no warnings or errors related to the suspension etc etc...
This is interesting

so it’s twisty backroads and I’m guessing you drove these same roads with similar conditions with the Corsas

at 50-70F ambient the PS4S “should” be outperforming the Corsas as those would take a lot longer to come up to temp and and don’t tend to work until at temp is what they say

I can second what you are saying about the PS4S loosing temp when not pushed but not by much maybe 10Deg F

I saw my tires drop from 80F fronts 90F rears to 70F fronts 80F rears after 15mins of cruising ambient was 60F but I assumed this would happen more so with the Corsas?


Even though our placard says 32 cold I was finding I was getting to 34 hot so I also try to aim for 30ish cold which gets me to 32-33 hot in current cooler weather


Still I’m at a loss to explain your experience you’ve had back to back with these tyres vs Corsas on same car similar roads similar conditions

the step out experience you had, had you taken that exact corner with the Corsas?
 
2012 MP4-12C
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Yeah, it sucks.... The really shitty part is, what to use next and not be in the same boat... I guess I go back to the Corsas? I hear there is a newer version out that is better than before.... View attachment 221635
I wanna try the Supercar 3's but again, without someone using them at similar pace on a 650, it seems the comparative info would be useless to me.... Tires are very subjective thing, just like exhausts. What goes for one guy won't necessarily light my fire.... View attachment 221636
I daily PS4S and have Supercar 3R for track which is also driving to track. Polar opposite tires.
 

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the step out experience you had, had you taken that exact corner with the Corsas?
Yes, I was NEVER caught out with the Corsas. And those weren't event the "new" ones I have been told are out now, as they had 2018 dates codes and were on the car brand new (CPO by dealer) when I bought it second hand....
 
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