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2012 MP4-12C
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So here is my stab at summarizing the 'collective' forum's findings for 'best' tires for mclarens under the following 4 different sets of conditions: 1) for cold/wet areas, 2) for dry/warm areas, 3) track use, and, 4) winter tires. The lists, roughly, are ordered from best to worst for the task.

1. Best cold/wet weather area and all around tires**:

  1. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  2. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  3. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  4. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)
  5. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  6. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  7. Bridgestone RE-71
  8. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  9. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  10. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  11. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)

2. Best warm/dry weather area and/or track use tires**:

  1. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  2. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  3. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  4. Toyo R888R
  5. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
  6. Toyo R888
  7. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  8. Bridgestone RE-71
  9. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  10. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  11. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  12. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  13. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)

3. Best hardcore/track tires:
  1. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  2. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  3. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  4. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
  5. Toyo R888R
  6. Toyo R888
  7. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  8. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  9. Bridgestone RE-71
  10. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  11. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  12. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  13. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)

4. Best winter weather tires:

  1. Pirelli MC Sottozero 3 winter tires
  2. Pirelli Sotto Zero type 270 Series II


*Not clear this tire exists, just rumors so far.
**Caveats include that we really haven't gotten feedback on the relative performance of a lot of the new tires that come out (so many of the new * tires are guesstimates on where they may fall in the hierarchy), some new tires are rumored and haven't yet been confirmed, and I suspect that my initial hierarchy above will change with time/feedback.


Working universe of tires
Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0) 2011-2016
*New Pirelli PZero (nP0) ~2017
Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC) 2011-2016
New Pirelli Corsa (nPC) ~2017
Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR) 201?-2016
*New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR) 2017?
Pirelli Sotto Zero type 270 Series II 2011-2017?
Pirelli MC Sottozero 3 winter tires 2018?

Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS) 2013-2016
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S) 2017
Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2) 2013-2016
*New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2) ~2017?

Bridgestone RE-71

Toyo R888
Toyo R888R


Summary of Tire Threads
For some additional reference, here is a partial consolidation of a bunch of threads about tires:
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/...s-vs-new-pzero-pz4-vs-new-pilot-sport-4s.html
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-lounge/67842-michelin-pilot-experience-ps4s.html
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-650s/41090-p-zero-corsa-vs-pilot-sport-cup-2-a.html
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-570s/68234-pzero-standard-vs-corsa.html
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/...in-pilot-sport-4-s-mps4-tires-zp-edition.html
https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/613-winter-tires.html

What do you guys think?
Super eager to hear everyone's feedback and what you think the best tires are and the proper order. I can keep updating this thread and add it to the https://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/...n-mclaren-questions-problems.html#post1257009.
 

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Just my 2c for warm/hot California and track - I've heard good things about the nPC but can't comment on how it stands against the MPSC2's not having driven it but I wasn't a fan of the old PC's. Dunlop Sportmax is faster (stickier) than a MPSC2 for a few laps but goes off quicker and the often overlooked Bridgestone RE-71 is as good as both the Michelin and Dunlop, lasts twice as long and costs half as much. Don't know why it never gets a look in? I think this is a great tire for a high HP car on track in the hands of an average to good driver.
 

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The issue with that list though ZP is it comprises a lot of tyres that not everyone will have tried or exist in differing sizes on different cars and that is before getting into any possible manufacturer specific tweaks. It's also ime very hard to accurately compare tyres as people are invariably comparing a new tyre vs a highly worn and possibly heat cycled one so the new one always feels much grippier and comfortable. There are probably even fewer 'fair' tyre comparison tests I'd think than car comparison tests and I think most of the car comparison tests have a ton of variables that may or may not be taken into account.

I think in general the newer tyre will always perform better and then it becomes a question of which manufacturer you prefer and whether sticking to the MC spec ones is important to you.
 

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2012 MP4-12C
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I think you are correct @isv, so it's more of an issue of getting rough consensus on a rough order, so it works as a rough guide.

For example, I personally have used PSS, MPS4S, and oP0s on my own car, and driven a 12C on oPCs, and my experience lines up with a lot of other reports here about their relative performance to one another, namely, that the Michelin's are generally better than the original Pirelli's.

So I think as we get more feedback here, we'll be able to get them into some rough order that, I hope, most will feel gets the rough idea across as to their relative performance. But I agree, people's mileage and performance will vary with their own preferences and set of conditions. But just because that's so, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get some rough order to it, as it's a topic that comes up pretty regularly and people are seeking out that rough information.
 

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I'm surprised the Toyo R888 or the newly replaced Toyo R888R were not mentioned anywhere in your original posts. If you don't care about wet weather driving and want grip they'll destroy the MPSS or the MPS4S. I prefer the Michelin for daily usage on my other performance cars but when I used R888 man are they like glue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm surprised the Toyo R888 or the newly replaced Toyo R888R were not mentioned anywhere in your original posts. If you don't care about wet weather driving and want grip they'll destroy the MPSS or the MPS4S. I prefer the Michelin for daily usage on my other performance cars but when I used R888 man are they like glue.
Hmm maybe I need to make a section for pure/hardcore tracking?
 

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Hmm maybe I need to make a section for pure/hardcore tracking?
They can be used on the street. I've used them on my GT-R as a daily. Just need common sense when driving them in wet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
They can be used on the street. I've used them on my GT-R as a daily. Just need common sense when driving them in wet.
Yea I hear you. But I would posit that they rank higher as a dedicated track day tire than an every day or mixed use tire. Im sure depending on your mix of use, your mileage may vary. But I would think for those that do 'mixed use' that they are 95+% road tires and less than 5% track tires, so that's what I was kind of keeping in mind with the warm/dry/track weather ranking.
 

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Yea I hear you. But I would posit that they rank higher as a dedicated track day tire than an every day or mixed use tire. Im sure depending on your mix of use, your mileage may vary. But I would think for those that do 'mixed use' that they are 95+% road tires and less than 5% track tires, so that's what I was kind of keeping in mind with the warm/dry/track weather ranking.
Your rather misinforming others ranking them at the bottom of your list of "Best warm/dry weather area and/or track use tires." That's the area they are designed for. While I don't think they're the best tire out there they shouldn't be pushed to the bottom just because of your lack of knowledge of that particular tire. They R888 wear life and they're usability in wet weather is rather similar to a Trofeo R and Cup 2 tire. Either way, for daily usage I still swear by the MPSS (or their new replacement the MP4S I have no personal experience with). I'll give up a little grip for better wet weather and longer shelf life. Every performance car I've owned used the MPSS (and likely the new MP4S when I'm due for tires again).
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Your rather misinforming others ranking them at the bottom of your list of "Best warm/dry weather area and/or track use tires." That's the area they are designed for. While I don't think they're the best tire out there they shouldn't be pushed to the bottom just because of your lack of knowledge of that particular tire. They R888 wear life and they're usability in wet weather is rather similar to a Trofeo R and Cup 2 tire. Either way, for daily usage I still swear by the MPSS (or their new replacement the MP4S I have no personal experience with). I'll give up a little grip for better wet weather and longer shelf life. Every performance car I've owned used the MPSS (and likely the new MP4S when I'm due for tires again).
You're totally right in my being misinformed about them. Where would you rank them?
 

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You're totally right in my being misinformed about them. Where would you rank them?
From personal experience and real world reviews I'll say you're about right for the hardcore tire section where you slotted them. This is where I'd slot them on your warm/dry weather list...

Best warm/dry weather area and/or track use tires**:
*New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
*New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
Toyo R888R
Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
Toyo R888
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
Bridgestone RE-71
Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
*New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)
 
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As an interesting data point, SportAuto recently posted a 7:24 nurburgring lap with the 991.2 GTS using the new Pirelli Corsas with Christian Gebhardt driving, Which quite coincidentially is exactly the same time that Horst von Sauma did in the 991.2gt3 on N1 Cup2s.... My point if anyone was wondering is even allowing for varying conditions and driver, I think it's probably fair to say that the corsas now are not too far off the cup2s when previously there was imo a very large performance difference with the Michelin well ahead. How the 2 tyres compare in wear/general usage of course is still an unknown and whether the N1 Cup2 used now is any different from the older N0 is hard to say as well.

Not that I personally think the faster/grippier tyre is necessarily the better one anyway, it's the feel/stability of the tyre especially on track and breakaway characteristics I think are considerably more important than outright grip but for those who do want the quickest tyre for whatever reason, that at least is some kind of a data point....
 

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So here is my stab at summarizing the 'collective' forum's findings for 'best' tires for mclarens under the following 3 different sets of conditions. For cold/wet areas of the country. For dry/warm areas of the country and track use. Winter tires.

Best cold/wet weather area and all around tires**:

  1. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  2. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  3. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  4. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)
  5. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  6. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  7. Bridgestone RE-71
  8. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  9. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  10. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  11. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)

Best warm/dry weather area and/or track use tires**:

  1. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  2. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  3. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  4. Toyo R888R
  5. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
  6. Toyo R888
  7. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  8. Bridgestone RE-71
  9. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  10. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  11. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  12. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  13. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)

Best hardcore/track tires:
  1. *New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
  2. New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
  3. *New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)
  4. Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
  5. Toyo R888R
  6. Toyo R888
  7. Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
  8. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
  9. Bridgestone RE-71
  10. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
  11. *New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
  12. Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
  13. Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)

Best winter weather tires:

  1. Pirelli Sotto Zero type 270 Series II


*Not clear this tire exists, just rumors so far.
**Caveats include that we really haven't gotten feedback on the relative performance of a lot of the new tires that come out (so many of the new * tires are guesstimates on where they may fall in the hierarchy), some new tires are rumored and haven't yet been confirmed, and I suspect that my initial hierarchy above will change with time/feedback.


Working universe of tires
Original Pirelli PZeros (oP0)
*New Pirelli PZero (nP0)
Original Pirelli Corsa (oPC)
New Pirelli Corsa (nPC)
Original Pirelli Trofeo R (oPTR)
*New Pirelli Trofeo R (nPTR)
Pirelli Sotto Zero type 270 Series II

Michelin Pilot Super Sports (MPSS)
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
Original Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (MPSC2)
*New Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (nMPSC2)

Bridgestone RE-71

Toyo R888
Toyo R888R


Summary of Tire Threads
For some additional reference, here is a partial consolidation of a bunch of threads about tires:
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...s-vs-new-pzero-pz4-vs-new-pilot-sport-4s.html
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-lounge/67842-michelin-pilot-experience-ps4s.html
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-650s/41090-p-zero-corsa-vs-pilot-sport-cup-2-a.html
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-570s/68234-pzero-standard-vs-corsa.html
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/m...in-pilot-sport-4-s-mps4-tires-zp-edition.html
http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/613-winter-tires.html

What do you guys think?
Super eager to hear everyone's feedback and what you think the best tires are and the proper order. I can keep updating this thread and add it to the FAQs. http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-lounge/63273-faq-common-mclaren-questions-problems.html

This is a glimpse into the reality of being a real ZombiePhysicist! I am fascinated and amazed at the depth of thought and research put into the topic! Thank you for being the only one to share this fascinating comparison for debate and conversation. It will surly influence my next tyre purchase for sure.

request! can you add the retail price of each tyre as well? and possibly the tread wear ratings? these other two factors as well can be a greater part of one's decision when purchasing tyres as well. Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This is a glimpse into the reality of being a real ZombiePhysicist! I am fascinated and amazed at the depth of thought and research put into the topic! Thank you for being the only one to share this fascinating comparison for debate and conversation. It will surly influence my next tyre purchase for sure.

request! can you add the retail price of each tyre as well? and possibly the tread wear ratings? these other two factors as well can be a greater part of one's decision when purchasing tyres as well. Thanks again
Thanks ima2nr. That's a great idea, but it would be fleeting as tire prices change. What would be great is if someone would put in links to tire rack for each tire, that way people could zip there and see the current price for the right model. Not sure I have time for that, but if people contribute here, I will incorporate those links into the first post to keep it current.
 

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So - at the risk of getting the fury of the entire McLaren internet community - has anyone tried Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (all-season) tires on their McLaren? I live in North East and use my 570S as a daily driver. Here in NY there are plenty of driving days when the temperature falls below 45 degrees (which seems to be the threshold for most summer rubber). I have no plans to track the car, which is why I am curious about this seemingly highly rated tire that comes in the right sizes.

Sorry if my question offends anyone.

Eugene
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So - at the risk of getting the fury of the entire McLaren internet community - has anyone tried Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (all-season) tires on their McLaren? I live in North East and use my 570S as a daily driver. Here in NY there are plenty of driving days when the temperature falls below 45 degrees (which seems to be the threshold for most summer rubber). I have no plans to track the car, which is why I am curious about this seemingly highly rated tire that comes in the right sizes.

Sorry if my question offends anyone.

Eugene
I haven't heard of them. The 4s work pretty decently for me even getting caught in occasional light snow. That said, I'd love to hear what the differences are with the AS. I'm in NYC (not sure if you're in the city or buffalo, which will make a difference) :D
 

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The 4S are not 4-season tires, that's just the designation of the 4th generation of Pilot Sports. A/S are true all season tires.

PS I'm in Long Island -- not Buffalo :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The 4S are not 4-season tires, that's just the designation of the 4th generation of Pilot Sports. A/S are true all season tires.

PS I'm in Long Island -- not Buffalo :)
Yes I know that the 4s are not all season tires. I'm telling you that I use them through all four seasons and they do quite well, in rain, and they're good for light snow. I have little doubt that the all season tires will do better in worse weather, but I suspect they won't do as well on the track. The 4s fall somewhere in the middle of the track tire and the all season is my suspicion, somewhat of a jack of all trades and not a master of any....
 

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Any reason to not spec the PZero Corsa for street use here in Arizona ? It won't be a daily driver so on rare rainy days the McLaren will stay in the garage. I know there is less tread than the standard PZero but anticipate only about 2500 mi per year so think they'll last sufficiently long.

Btw I had the standard, older PZero on my Mercedes '14 CLS63S and they were shot by about 9,000 miles / 1 year of daily driver street use.
 
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