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I agree with Shags..and many others. I will not buy at the current price. Many trips to the dealer can be had for $2k.

Does anyone know if a more economical solution is available yet? I will be buying a 650s in the next month or so (pending ability to DIY) so a tool like this is likely my first purchase.

It appears the first one to get the pricing right here will make some money...
 

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“I’m a Tuner”
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Dear OP! (I "think" I'm speaking for the collective community here, since the community's silence so far is an even louder response to your initial offered price point that was unacceptable to all the consumers here)

"We" (the collective McLaren owners community) are very interested in your software solution (at least I think we are? Maybe I can only speak for myself... But I can say I am personally interested)... but "we" are NOT interested at the price you offered it (not even close).. and we are NOT interested in paying for yearly fees to keep the software active!


So... Please let us McLaren owners know if you are ready to offer your product at a price that is LOGICAL for the benefit it would provide a single license user. Basically when we bought our beloved McLaren cars we knew the only cpu diagnostic software was at the McLaren dealership.... AND we are happy to continue on the path we choose when we bought the car for the times when our CPU shows that ugly check engine light thing-a-ma-bobby thing. SURE, we want to do it ourselves with a laptop and some software at home, but the price has to make sense! AND we actually like the software you spent time writing and developing! You did a good thing! BUT... If it does not make sense to US (the owners), it does not make dollars for the developer... If you need an explanation please review my earlier post on the cost comparison I posted visiting the dealer vs the price you suggested on your software.

Thanks Again! I really hope we can make this work! Your product does look awesome and I personally am ready to spend some Christmas money on myself (if the price is right of course)....

:),



THANKS AGAIN!
 

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I am once again in total agreement with ima2nr! I am going to have to go to the dealer shortly for an airbag reset and key fob programming...would have been nice to put that money into the diagnostic tool. Sure would make a great Christmas present...I hope you can reconsider the price...thanks!

Shags
 

· Vendor
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Greetings to all of you

Perhaps a little delay in the response but I assure everyone that we are working every day to develop our tool to include all models up to 2020 .. We will launch an update soon.

Dear Shags & ima2nr
I am sure you are trying to help us reach a price that many friends aspire to, but it is not a matter of greed from us.
The design of the price came based on multiple costs not only to sell the tool .. but to stay on them effective and strong for years ..

Especially with regard to single Vin solution
It will be able to anyone buying this device to change the VIN in the future if he replaced his car with another , may be his first car WAS 2014 and the other IS 2020 and here lies the advantage
At a time when we are discussing the price here, there are many customers from all over the world buying our tool and seeing the results.

Warm regards to you
Younis
 

· Vendor
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Dear gentlemen

We have created a WhatsApp Group ( McLaren Diag solutions ) and that are not for those who wish to purchase our tool only .

You are all invited to join to discuss everything related to McLaren cars ,

specialists are very welcome to join

to get quick and effective responses, especially in emergency cases.

Pattern Line Design Square Black-and-white



* If you are iPhone user simply use your camera to Scan & join the group .

# For android users you must have QR app to do so .

Kindest Regards

Younis
 

· Vendor
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Hello

HERE OUR LATEST UPDATE .NEW MODELS ADDED WITH NEW FUNCTIONS

NEW MODEL ADDED:

600LT Coupe,600LT Spider

Engine Control Unit (ECU):
- Un-pair immobilizer

Instrument Cluster (IC):
- Service Interval Reset
- Read Last Service Data
- Enter Last Service Data
- Valet Mode Read and Reset
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Transport mode



Steering Angle Sensor (SAS):
- Fine Tune Zero Position

Security Body Controller (SBC):

  • Key Learn
  • Key Test
- Un-pair immobilizer
- Alarm History
  • LF Antenna Continuity Test
  • Align Vehicle Configuration
  • Read ECU Configuration
  • Set ECU Configuration

Door Module Left (DML):
  • Align Vehicle Configuration
  • Window Calibration

Door Module Right (DMR):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Window Calibration

Seat Control Module Left (SCML):
- Seat Calibration

Seat Control Module Rigth (SCMR):
- Seat Calibration

Body Control Module (BCM):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Parking Sensor Diagnostic Activation

Head Unit (HU):
- Align Vehicle Configuration

Electronic Stability Program (ESP):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Dynamometer Mode

Powertrain and Chassis Control Module (PCCU):
- Align Vehicle Configuration

- Clear Gear Adaptations -
- Un-pair immobilizer
========================================================================================

McLaren Senna

Engine Control Unit (ECU):
- Un-pair immobilizer
- Clear Misfire adaptations
- Throttle adaption

ADI:
- Service Interval Reset
- Read Last Service Data
- Enter Last Service Data
- Valet Mode Read and Reset
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Transport mode
- Tone test

Security Body Controller (SBC):
- Un-pair immobilizer
- Align Vehicle Configuration

Body Control Module (BCM):
- Align Vehicle Configuration

Chassis Control Unit (CCU):
- Align Vehicle Configuration


Door Module Left (DML):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Window Calibration


Door Module Right (DMR):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Window Calibration


Transmission Control Unit (TCU):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Air Brake Bleed
- Air Brake Calibration
- Transmission Replacement Reset
- Set ECU Configuration
- Transmission calibration
- Un-pair immobilizer


Steering Angle Sensor (SAS):
- Fine Tune Zero Position


Electronic Stability Program (ESP):
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Dynamometer Mode
- EPB Enter Maintenance Mode
- EPB Exit Maintenance Mode
- Carbon Ceramic Matrix (CCM) brake disc condition

========================================================================================
GT 2019+

Engine Control Unit (ECU):
  • Un-pair immobilizer
  • Clear Misfire adaptations
  • Throttle adaption


Instrument Cluster (IC):
- Service Interval Reset
- Read Last Service Data
- Enter Last Service Data
- Align Vehicle Configuration
- Transport mode


Security Body Controller (SBC):
- Un-pair immobilizer
- Align Vehicle Configuration

Transmission Control Unit (TCU):
- Un-pair immobilizer
========================================================================================
12C, 625C platform added this new functions:

Engine Control Unit (ECU):
- Secondary Air Diagnosis
- Clear Misfire adaptations
- Start throttle adaption
- Save throttle adaption
- DMTL Diagnostic Module Tank Leakage Test

Electronic Stability Program (ESP):
- Yaw Rate Sensor Calibration
- Brake Bleed Routine

nstrument Cluster (IC):
- Set Configuration Defaults
========================================================================================
570S - platform added new fucntions:

Instrument Cluster (IC):
- Transport mode

Powertrain and Chassis Control Module (PCCU):
- Clear Gear Adaptations
- Un-pair immobilizer

========================================================================================
720S platform added this new functions:
Instrument Cluster (IC):
- Tone test

Transmission Control Unit (TCU):
- Un-pair immobilizer


This all what we have today

Best Regards
Younis
 

· Super Moderator
“I’m a Tuner”
Joined
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1,597 Posts
Greetings to all of you

Perhaps a little delay in the response but I assure everyone that we are working every day to develop our tool to include all models up to 2020 .. We will launch an update soon.

Dear Shags & ima2nr
I am sure you are trying to help us reach a price that many friends aspire to, but it is not a matter of greed from us.
The design of the price came based on multiple costs not only to sell the tool .. but to stay on them effective and strong for years ..

Especially with regard to single Vin solution
It will be able to anyone buying this device to change the VIN in the future if he replaced his car with another , may be his first car WAS 2014 and the other IS 2020 and here lies the advantage
At a time when we are discussing the price here, there are many customers from all over the world buying our tool and seeing the results.

Warm regards to you
Younis

Basically I cannot see any value in RENTING the software tool for 2,200.00 USD for the 1st year + 660.00 per year to keep it 100% fully functional. This pricing model does not provide any ownership, it is truly just renting.

In short, every McLaren owner would spend LESS MONEY per year just taking their "aging super car" to the dealer and pay for an hour or two of diagnostic time when they need deeper access to the ECU.

The Dealer charges 175.00 per hour in my area, so I could go to the dealer and pay for two hours of diagnostic time SIX DIFFERENT TIMES in one year before I equaled the 2200.00 investment you are asking for.

2 hrs labor at McLaren @ 175.00 per hour = 350.00

350.00 spent on Diagnostics every two months (SIX times in ONE YEAR) = 2,100.00


(IF MY CAR IS SO BROKEN I NEED TO SEE THE DEALER ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR I PROMISE I'M GETTING RID OF THE CAR!!!!)


And I could go to the dealer THREE MORE TIMES per YEAR needing a one hour diag or CPU reset thereafter before I spent more than the 600.00 per year you are asking just to keep the software "fully functional".


Please reconsider your pricing strategy, Basically the pricing just does not make economical sense.


FYI - I am heading to the Dealer in the morning to have a full diag for an "Engine Fault" warning..

YES... When the light came on 2 days ago I thought to myself "Wouldn't it be great if I had that software so I could scan my own car by myself?"... But I immediately remembered the math lesson above and said to myself "Sure it would be nice to have the software and do it yourself, BUT that software costs WAY MORE than going to the dealer... And the dealer can also better interpret the Diagnostic results to get to the root cause issue more quickly, and if you need some parts you will already be there to get them."

Basically 350.00 spent at the dealer tomorrow morning seems like a much better investment than forking over 2,200.00 for one year + 600.00 more per year just to rent your software.

I'll repeat this because this part is true for me and 99.99% of every other McLaren Owner out there....

(IF MY CAR IS SO BROKEN I NEED TO SEE THE DEALER ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR I PROMISE I'M GETTING RID OF THE CAR!!!!)

PLEASE KNOW.... I am NOT bashing your product! Quite the opposite! I really want to buy it, but it has to make better financial sense. Please reconsider your pricing strategy. Allow me to OWN the software for a more logical price. (no annual reoccurring fee)

Thank you again for working toward making a useful product that is also affordable and provides VALUE at the price point of the software.
 

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Once again I find myself aligned with ima2nr...and in the exact same position. I just made an appointment with McLaren Denver for next Monday to reset my airbag light, program a spare key I got from XPRD and reset my service interval since I have completed the annual service myself...I really wish the diagnostic tool was affordable at the right value point as ima2nr discussed. Probably a couple hours labor which is $350 I would have liked to put to this diagnostic tool...not to mention the inconvenience (and time) of bringing it to the dealer instead of doing it in my garage!

Also like ima2nr, I am grateful for those developing capability for the DIYer...and as an early customer I would be understanding of growing pains as the software was refined. While the $2200 is a bit more than I would like to pay, the "renting" aspect driven by the $600/year is a deal breaker for me...also what happens if you just decide not to keep the program going, then we are out the $2200...after the year the software reverts to the same as my $99 scanner.

Thanks ima2nr for keeping the dialogue going...sooner or later someone will make a tool available for guys like us (like most other exotics already have available) and I think whoever does this will have a great business! Thanks to Golden Motors for developing the tool...let us know if you can reconsider the price and annual fee!
 

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225 Posts
I completely agree with Shags and Ima2nr. However, I understand where the maker is coming from also and perhaps his target market are people more like me. I have 3 mclarens here in the Philippines and we have no dealer (there will be one soon to open but I'm not sure they will work on personal import cars or might charge a hefty fee). There is really no choice to run to a dealer to scan the car. Or perhaps people that don't have dealers nearby and would have to drive a considerable time to just get work done on their vehicles. I still find it expensive and will sit on the sidelines especially that some workshops here now have some diagnostics tools already and simply charge a fee per scan.
 

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“I’m a Tuner”
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@azmurciev12

I think no matter what the market or accessability to a dealer MDS tools it is still not acceptable for a software vendor to require an annual fee to keep the software fully operational.

I fully understand if a customer chooses not to pay an annual renewal that their software would no longer recieve NEW updates. This is traditional in the software space.

The major diffrence with this vendor is their software will lose approx 70% of its core functionality after the first year!

Unless of course you pay them an annual fee of 600.00 USD to keep it active. This is where I'm having a major problem justifying the purchase, and this is why I shared the mathmatical example comparing just taking your car to the dealership multiple times per year.

Good luck with your car in the Philippines! You are a brave man indeed knowing you have zero dealer support should you have an issue.

FWIW - I do hope all of our input on this topic is beneficial to to the software vendor. I personally do want to become thier customer and I would love to own the software, but I refuse to "rent it" for the rest of my life. What if I keep my car another 10 years? I promise there will be no new updates for the 12c from McLaren ever again, and the software vendor is not writing code for the modules or ECU either... why am i required to pay 600.00 more for evey year I continue to own my car?
 

· Vendor
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
Many Thanks for all of you and very special Regards to ima2nr & Shags for this nice and professional conversation .


Today i want to tell all of you guys we @Simplediag care and want our customers to be happy not only while getting our tool but with our after sales support .

after long discussion we are happy to offer our best pricing for this tool and we hope it met your expectation even If we not come to the suggested price by our friends ima2nr .

THE NEW PRICES ARE AS FOLLOWING :

1- FULL PACKAGE WILL BE 6000 EURO

- ANNUAL UPDATE WAS 1200 EURO AND IT WILL BE 999 EURO ONLY

2- SINGLE VIN PRICE WAS 2000 EURO AND IT WILL BE 1750 EURO

- ANNUAL UPDATE WAS 600 EURO

IT WILL BE 400 EURO FOR 1 YEAR AND 600 EURO IF CUSTOMER PAY FOR 2 YEAR AT SAME TIME .

With the benefit of changing the vin to another car if required



Best Regards
Younis
 
2012 MP4-12C ----- 2018 720s
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3,493 Posts
Basic business math here (coming from someone who has to base product pricing off of market demand).

Would you rather sell 10 a year at $2,000 or 200 a year at $500? The cost of production for the dongle and cable is under $10, you're selling software that has a cost of development but no cost of production. At $500 a year, nearly every owner would buy one to have on hand just for "what if?" scenarios. People could literally buy it and never use it but feel OK about it. I for one would be more apt to use it more frequently as I do all my own service. At $2,000 you'll get few owners and zero service providers being a single VIN. At $6,000 you're still limiting your service providers.

So back to the math, if the hardware costs $10 and you sell at $500, that's $490 profit per unit. If you sell 200 a year, that's $98,000 a year. If the hardware costs $10 and you sell at $2,000, that's $1,990 profit but you only sold 10 a year so that's $19,900 a year. I don't know about you, but I think making 80% more is better. You can't get away with a maintenance contract for functionality unless that's basically the only cost to be had. $500 a year MIGHT get some people onboard, $250 a year would for sure.
 

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One of my old CEO's told his software executives a few years ago "I'd rather have 10,000 customers paying me $100 each vs. one customer paying me 1MM. It's easier to add more customers at $100 than find another willing to spend 1MM. And if you lose a customer, it's not as painful." After experiencing the exponential growth based upon this model (and subsequent IPO last year), it was a valuable lesson in the importance of not only spreading your subscription revenue across a wide swath of consumers versus being greedy with our solution and trying to recoup our full investment in the software as quickly as possible against those with deep pockets and little sense.

Best of luck to the companies trying to sell their solutions for these prices, but as others have stated...the math just doesn't make sense. You have an active community willing to invest in your product (and your future as a business), but it's cheaper to have the dealer diagnose at these rates. We get it, you invested in developing the software and that comes at a cost. However, if your pricing effectively removes your target audience from considering your solution, you're going to have to start asking whether this is a viable product. Low product uptake is a sure sign that something is off...and it sure seems like it's not the product or features, but rather your pricing.

FWIW, thanks for putting the time in the develop this. I had my car at my nearest dealer (3 hours away) over the Winter for it's annual service and airbag recall work, and they neglected to reset to service interval warning light. I'd love to have your tool to do just that without having to deal with the hassle of coordinating remediation with this dealer. But at 2k + subscription....I can deal with the annoyance of a little beep and notification that goes away within 10 seconds of starting my car.
 

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^^^ Very well said. The small "reduction" in price that was posted tells you all you need to know. They aren't selling very well, but aren't willing to give up on the business plan the way it is currently written.

All we have to do is wait them out. Either their price will come down, or they will go away and someone else will come in and get it right. Just a matter of time. The fact that this thread lives on even after the outrageous price was made public should be a sign that there is real interest and a market for this.
 
2012 MP4-12C ----- 2018 720s
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^^^ Very well said. The small "reduction" in price that was posted tells you all you need to know. They aren't selling very well, but aren't willing to give up on the business plan the way it is currently written.

All we have to do is wait them out. Either their price will come down, or they will go away and someone else will come in and get it right. Just a matter of time. The fact that this thread lives on even after the outrageous price was made public should be a sign that there is real interest and a market for this.
There are options out there, zero have gotten it right. The first one I contacted quite some time ago was a "PM for price" and they said $15k. After I stopped laughing I told them good luck with that. Anyone that says contact for a price, even a website, I never will because that's the phrase used for "it costs more than you're willing to spend". The moment someone puts out a $500 solution, it will be a complete market blowout that no-one will ever be able to get a fraction of the market share from then on out. The resources are already there to do it, but nobody is.
 
2012 MP4-12C ----- 2018 720s
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I wonder if we can get someone to hook up a CAN-BUS logger, take it to the dealer to have a few things done, then look at the logs later. It'd be better if we could watch them do it to know the order of actions taken to be able to reverse engineer the codes a little better.

If you had a willing participant (dealer mechanic), you could get them to send the same command a few times with different options to see how they translated into messages. I'm not sure if these messages are encrypted any, but it seems unlikely given that other have cracked it.

Then create an Android app to run on IRIS and IRIS 2 that can send the CAN-BUS messages and do all the diagnostics from within the car! :D
 
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