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I know this topic has been brought up in an earlier thread, but since I just retrofitted Carbon Ceramics into my 12C in http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/2058-mclaren-optional-carbon-ceramics-vs-standard-cast-iron-brakes.html . I thought it would best to share by consolidating some past information edited and extracted together with some of my own observation and experience. Although I have catered this Bedding in procedure for Carbon Ceramic Brakes (CCM), I am positive it will work the same for Cast Iron too.

Upon visual inspection of a brand new set of Carbon Ceramic rotors, they seem 'rough', 'soft' and 'porous' like a well-baked black cake. I presume the brake manufacturers made it 'rough' right out of the kilning process because it helps for transfer of materials and friction film during the bedding process. It is common knowledge that CCM brakes are designed for repeated extreme braking under high speed applications so renown brake manufacturers would design their CCM brakes with a bias towards high speed performance and safety. The Bedding process enable carbon-ceramic brake discs to demonstrate their better brake response behavior, higher fading stability, good brake modulation and control.

This program is identical for all disc sizes and consists of four phases (Step 1 to 7) with reference to the official procedural instructions provided by McLaren (See attached). The aim of the first phase (Step 1) is to create sufficiently high contact between brake disc and brake pad. The purpose of the following second (Step 3) and third phase (Step 5) is to fully develop the friction film between brake pad and brake disc.

Throughout the procedure from Step 1-6 that consist basically 3 phases, the stops in question need to be done without activating ABS, i.e threshold braking the car, so that a constant pressure is kept on the pad during the stop. This is to help build up the heat in the pad. The goal here is to bake off the top layer of bonding agent from the pad so that an air pocket forming becomes impossible or highly unlikely. Basically what you're looking for is the pad to start fading bad during the procedure. That generally happens around stop 20-30 or so (in Step 3), when braking distances feel like they are increasing dramatically. Once this point has hit, the gasses are beginning to boil off. A few more stops after that point and the brakes will feel like they're grabbing before you even touch the pedal.

The time interval between all the above phases should be about 3 minutes or simply drive 3 kilometers without using your brakes to allow the brakes to cool down to between 40-50 degrees Celsius with variation subject to your ambient temperature.

The last phase (Step 7) can be conducted by at least 3 brake applications at maximum deceleration (ABS control range) from 100–110km/h down to zero. At that point: you're done. Drive the car for a while say 8 km at legal speeds to cool the brakes.
 

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Here's what a well-known brake materials manufacturer published on how braking works:

"...... brakes convert kinetic energy of a moving vehicle into heat. The simplest way for a brake system to absorb kinetic energy is to break chemical bonds in the rubbing surfaces of the brake pads and rotor. This is called "abrasive friction", because the pads and rotor act as an abrasive, pulling each other apart, wearing, and turning the pad into dust.

A more sophisticated way to absorb kinetic energy is "cohesive friction" (or adhesive friction). ...

...In order to use cohesive friction, pads deposit a film of friction material on the surface of the rotor. As the rotor passes between the pads, the film and the pad surface heat up and become sticky. The pads and friction film bond to each other then break apart, absorbing energy. They bond and break apart continuously as the rotor passes between the pads.

Cohesive friction relies on the surface properties of the friction material and transfer film, which change with temperature. ...

...Used under its design conditions, a cohesive friction material does not wear the rotor at all, as the rotor is protected by the friction film. The pads wear slowly, just enough to keep a supply of adhesive materials at the surface. ..."



I religiously performed the prescribed instructions and it took me less than an hour of my time. Please find a suitable secluded and private location to avoid infringing any local traffic laws and needlessly incurring a possible speeding ticket whilst performing the procedure.

As we all know, CCM brakes operate with little or no dust and CCM brakes will work optimally once they have been properly broken-in. Once they are bedded properly, they stay bedded.

Once you've correctly bedded in the pads, you will immediately notice that the Carbon Ceramic rotor has changed its appearance to a burnished surface. Inspect the edge of the pad where it meets the rotor and you'll see a faint 'white' outline and/or some 'powdered deposits' around the edge of the pad. You will also an even 'circumference streaks of light glazing' spanning the entire surface of the Carbon Ceramic rotor, according to the pictures attached herein.

The Bedding in procedure we have done now is basically a Street Burnishing process which preps the brakes that would be enough for cars that are only driven on the street, carve canyons, drive quickly up and down a mountain road, or perform high speed runs on the highway (Legal or otherwise).

I hope this post has been informative.
Have a great day!
 

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Track burnishing procedure

If there are plans to track your car, we should perform a track burnishing procedure to further season the pads for high temperature use.

Begin by performing a series of 7 or 8 laps at the track, and then park the car after a cool-down lap. The first few laps should be done at increasing speed, and the last few should be done at slower and slower speeds.

The street burnishing preps the pads, and is enough for cars that are only driven on the street. But those that see continued extremely high temperatures because of high speed braking at the track will need to perform this track burnishing procedure after performing the standard bedding process.

Have a safe drive!:cool:
 

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I'm just wondering why the manufactures of these high performance cars/products, do not provide this bedding process prior to delivery to its rightful owner.

Realizing that it is a procedure that requires a certain amount of time, as well proper bedding protocol as outlined by RC33. In so doing, wouldn't it just add to the overall driving ownership experience, one less thing to have to worry about. The same could be said about heat cycling of tires or for that matter breaking in period of your finely tuned engine.

I would love it, if you could go pickup my brand spanking new super car and not having to worry about all of these freaking procedures/protocols that need to be followed in order to achieve driving bliss. You know I do have the tendency to drink and smoke the odd doobie which also provides that blissful feeling. LOL?, I would much rather achieve that feeling behind the wheel of a finely tuned exotic car, which has been properly broken in by the manufacturer, brakes, tires and engine.

Hey I think that there may be a business proposition here for all of the super cars being sold, professionally broken in cars prior to delivery. Yes, I'm also a big dreamer as well, which occurs after the consumption of the above noted. Cheers.....??...??

Once again RC33 great information provided. ??
 

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Am I the only one reading this and thinking it's taking the p***? 0.3g, 0.5g, 0.7g .... do carbon ceramics come with an accelerometer or do you just have to guess? Same for the temperatures, do you get a temperature probe? Best I could do would be to differentiate between warm and effing hot by jumping out and touching the surface of the disk between runs.

If it really requires this level of detail then it should be done prior to leaving the factory as Extreme suggests.
 

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Jerry I'm thinking of opening a business right next door to Woking, and getting McLaren to sign a contract allow this company to do everything that I've mentioned. Plan and simple the company would be called MP-DPP aka McLaren Pre Delivery Performance Prep.LOL?.... Yes I'm in agreement, why leave all the guess work to the consumer, which in the end could be extremely frustrating and problematic. This is something that should be done by McLaren from the get go, in so doing providing the client with a feeling of utmost satisfaction and worry free driving. Cheers....??
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Am I the only one reading this and thinking it's taking the p***? 0.3g, 0.5g, 0.7g .... do carbon ceramics come with an accelerometer or do you just have to guess? Same for the temperatures, do you get a temperature probe? Best I could do would be to differentiate between warm and effing hot by jumping out and touching the surface of the disk between runs.

If it really requires this level of detail then it should be done prior to leaving the factory as Extreme suggests.
Good question!

We did use a portable Digital Infra-red Pyrometer during the entire exercise to gauge the temperature changes and differences at the specific Steps and Phases. The Temperatures came somewhat close to the suggested temps but not exact subject to the ambient temperatures wherever you are but at least the general idea is if it is suppose to be hotter, it should well be.

As for the deceleration G force during braking, we just applied moderate, medium and medium heavy braking in each of the phases. The important issue is to replicate the same brake pressure in each of the 16 repetition between the specific time within each phase.
To activate the ABS on the 4th phases, simply stand on the brakes during application until the car comes to a complete stop.

I used the stopwatch function with alarm function from my Samsung Note 2 to help synchronize the in between timings and sequence. The key is to generate consistent heat cycles to fully develop the friction film between brake pad and brake disc.

:)
 

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Good question!

We did use a portable Digital Infra-red Pyrometer during the entire exercise to gauge the temperature changes and differences at the specific Steps and Phases. The Temperatures came somewhat close to the suggested temps but not exact subject to the ambient temperatures wherever you are but at least the general idea is if it is suppose to be hotter, it should well be.

As for the deceleration G force during braking, we just applied moderate, medium and medium heavy braking in each of the phases. The important issue is to replicate the same brake pressure in each of the 16 repetition between the specific time within each phase.
To activate the ABS on the 4th phases, simply stand on the brakes during application until the car comes to a complete stop.

I used the stopwatch function with alarm function from my Samsung Note 2 to help synchronize the in between timings and sequence. The key is to generate consistent heat cycles to fully develop the friction film between brake pad and brake disc.

:)
After hearing all of that once again, I really feel like there's a opportunity to make money with the bedding of the brakes, the heat cycling of the tires and last but not least the breaking in of the engine. I must admit thought it sounds extremely scientific this whole bedding thing, why have I not heard about this in the past. Or was it just a matter of not wanting to hear about it due to the complexity of it all, RC33 your hired and you can sell your car because your going to be driving a lot of cars including mine. LOL....?. Cheers.....??
 

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Interestingly all the MercMacs were bedded in at Chobham track, just down the road from Woking. It is a military facility with various test areas icluding skid pan, large circle, steep grades and a track with a scary banked turn at the end of the main straight.

I happened to be there taking instruction in a 911 when the covered wagon with two merc macs turned up and managed to blagg a ride. The driver went through a very deliberate sequence to bed the brakes and we eventually got to some scary high speed.........the milometer was zeroed on return to the factory.

The quality of construction was awesome on those cars.
 

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I know this topic has been brought up in an earlier thread, but since I just retrofitted Carbon Ceramics into my 12C in http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mclaren-mp4-12c/2058-mclaren-optional-carbon-ceramics-vs-standard-cast-iron-brakes.html . I thought it would best to share by consolidating some past information edited and extracted together with some of my own observation and experience. Although I have catered this Bedding in procedure for Carbon Ceramic Brakes (CCM), I am positive it will work the same for Cast Iron too.

Upon visual inspection of a brand new set of Carbon Ceramic rotors, they seem 'rough', 'soft' and 'porous' like a well-baked black cake. I presume the brake manufacturers made it 'rough' right out of the kilning process because it helps for transfer of materials and friction film during the bedding process. It is common knowledge that CCM brakes are designed for repeated extreme braking under high speed applications so renown brake manufacturers would design their CCM brakes with a bias towards high speed performance and safety. The Bedding process enable carbon-ceramic brake discs to demonstrate their better brake response behavior, higher fading stability, good brake modulation and control.

This program is identical for all disc sizes and consists of four phases (Step 1 to 7) with reference to the official procedural instructions provided by McLaren (See attached). The aim of the first phase (Step 1) is to create sufficiently high contact between brake disc and brake pad. The purpose of the following second (Step 3) and third phase (Step 5) is to fully develop the friction film between brake pad and brake disc.

Throughout the procedure from Step 1-6 that consist basically 3 phases, the stops in question need to be done without activating ABS, i.e threshold braking the car, so that a constant pressure is kept on the pad during the stop. This is to help build up the heat in the pad. The goal here is to bake off the top layer of bonding agent from the pad so that an air pocket forming becomes impossible or highly unlikely. Basically what you're looking for is the pad to start fading bad during the procedure. That generally happens around stop 20-30 or so (in Step 3), when braking distances feel like they are increasing dramatically. Once this point has hit, the gasses are beginning to boil off. A few more stops after that point and the brakes will feel like they're grabbing before you even touch the pedal.

The time interval between all the above phases should be about 3 minutes or simply drive 3 kilometers without using your brakes to allow the brakes to cool down to between 40-50 degrees Celsius with variation subject to your ambient temperature.

The last phase (Step 7) can be conducted by at least 3 brake applications at maximum deceleration (ABS control range) from 100–110km/h down to zero. At that point: you're done. Drive the car for a while say 8 km at legal speeds to cool the brakes.
Thanks for sharing.
 

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it is incredible , and hard to accept , I have an 430 spider with ccm brakes , this car came with new disks and pads , it had never any bedding process , and this car brakes incredible, so aggressive , , now I bought the 2 e hand 458 spider , already when I did the trial ride , my first remark was , this car doesnot brake at all , then at the dealer for the interval , their comment was the previous owner , he never really did brake strong , so this is the reason ,
then I followed the bedding in instruction of Ferrari , ( almost similar as Maclaren) no improve , so I bought new pads , this felt a little better , so I did the bedding in process , but to be honest the highest temperature I got was 300 degrees , and again no improve of the brakes , so now I will ask my dealer to do this procedure again , but doesn any one knows , if I should buy again the new brake pads , as this ones I did already around 2000 km , and I did brake a lot , in the hope that the brakes would work well , without the killing procedure again for my car
wait yr comment


k r Ben
 

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Guys, I am getting conflicting answers. Is it necessary to "bed in" CCM brakes on a new McLaren? Thx
Should be done by the factory, or the dealership upon delivery IMO. I wouldn't worry, but that's just me. Doesn't hurt to ask the dealership.

-Troy
 

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So I went to try bedding my brakes and got some questions. As background, I got my 650s as a leftover a few months ago and have no idea whether dealer / factory has already done so. I followed the instructions but was not able to get abs to kick in. With the air brake, the car brakes so quickly and didn't get abs to kick in. Is that a problem? In addition, I never got the "fade" part after going through all the steps (45 total stops. Acutally might have done a few more 80mphs to 20 mphs for good measure especially since there was no fade). Is that an issue? Or could it be the fact that they were already bedded so there was no fade?

Thanks.
 
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