[VenomF5]

Well, someone got their hands on the Valkyrie User Manual: https://www.autouserguide.com/aston-martin/valkyrie/aston-martin-valkyrie-2021-user-manual/

I've quickly skimmed through it... Some highlights:

View attachment 227564

1355kg "Unladen Mass" - which is defined as weight with all fluids, but no fuel or driver. With full fuel, the kerb weight would be 1392kg. This is still the claimed weight, though, and I expect the actual weight to be even higher. Interestingly, even if this was accurate, this leaves you only 153kg left for the driver and passenger before the car reaches its Gross Vehicle Weight - which it shouldn't be legally able to exceed.

Speaking of fuel, the car has only 50L fuel tank - which is the smallest of any supercar that I know. With a 6.5L V12 engine you'll be lucky to get 200 mile range out of this thing.

The turning circle is 14m. For comparison the P1 is 11.8m, the 720S 12.1m, and a huge car like the Aventador is 12.5m.

The manual says the "ERS Boost" - ie. the only time the electric motor gives you full power - only ever provides 100Nm at most (although they say 280Nm is the theoretical max). Combined with the tiny battery size, basically the car has 1000hp, maybe a bit more with the momentary ERS Boost, but it doesn't seem like it ever actually gives you the full 160hp. The electric motor seems to be there mostly for low speed maneuvering.

The car comes with "aircraft grade noise-cancelling headsets". No word about them being active as earlier speculated, but either way, this is what they say:
View attachment 227565
Where permitted, huh? Well, in the UK, for example, it isn't specifically illegal to wear headphones - but the police will probably fine you for distracted driving:



So either damage your hearing or face fines...

This is mildly amusing:
View attachment 227566

The car is not that great in winter, apparently:
View attachment 227567

Here are the dimensions:
View attachment 227568
The most relevant thing probably being the ride height of only 70mm. Not sure in which drive mode this is, but the Sport and Track modes only lower the ride height by 16mm (and not by 70mm as previously reported). 54/66mm (front/rear) ride height reduction (respective to the Urban mode) is possible only with non-road legal front track clamshell installed.

What about servicing? Well... First service after 1000km and then every 5000km:
View attachment 227570
Here is a complete list:
View attachment 227571
The most interesting item here is definitely the transmission rebuild after 50000km... Not that most Valkyries will ever reach 5000km, but still...

All in all, pretty much completely as expected.

Post of the year. Period.

 

[A West]

Basically means AM screws the customers over as the power ratings are only in short bursts… right ?

tbf, that goes for a number of hybrid cars

 

[A West]

Well, someone got their hands on the Valkyrie User Manual: https://www.autouserguide.com/aston-martin/valkyrie/aston-martin-valkyrie-2021-user-manual/

I've quickly skimmed through it... Some highlights:

View attachment 227564

1355kg "Unladen Mass" - which is defined as weight with all fluids, but no fuel or driver. With full fuel, the kerb weight would be 1392kg. This is still the claimed weight, though, and I expect the actual weight to be even higher. Interestingly, even if this was accurate, this leaves you only 153kg left for the driver and passenger before the car reaches its Gross Vehicle Weight - which it shouldn't be legally able to exceed.

Speaking of fuel, the car has only 50L fuel tank - which is the smallest of any supercar that I know. With a 6.5L V12 engine you'll be lucky to get 200 mile range out of this thing.

The turning circle is 14m. For comparison the P1 is 11.8m, the 720S 12.1m, and a huge car like the Aventador is 12.5m.

The manual says the "ERS Boost" - ie. the only time the electric motor gives you full power - only ever provides 100Nm at most (although they say 280Nm is the theoretical max). Combined with the tiny battery size, basically the car has 1000hp, maybe a bit more with the momentary ERS Boost, but it doesn't seem like it ever actually gives you the full 160hp. The electric motor seems to be there mostly for low speed maneuvering.

The car comes with "aircraft grade noise-cancelling headsets". No word about them being active as earlier speculated, but either way, this is what they say:
View attachment 227565
Where permitted, huh? Well, in the UK, for example, it isn't specifically illegal to wear headphones - but the police will probably fine you for distracted driving:



So either damage your hearing or face fines...

This is mildly amusing:
View attachment 227566

The car is not that great in winter, apparently:
View attachment 227567

Here are the dimensions:
View attachment 227568
The most relevant thing probably being the ride height of only 70mm. Not sure in which drive mode this is, but the Sport and Track modes only lower the ride height by 16mm (and not by 70mm as previously reported). 54/66mm (front/rear) ride height reduction (respective to the Urban mode) is possible only with non-road legal front track clamshell installed.

What about servicing? Well... First service after 1000km and then every 5000km:
View attachment 227570
Here is a complete list:
View attachment 227571
The most interesting item here is definitely the transmission rebuild after 50000km... Not that most Valkyries will ever reach 5000km, but still...

All in all, pretty much completely as expected.

interesting stuff. Lawrence stroll really need to take a bow, his cost savings has accomplished a pretty significant increase in weight...

 

[eMcL]

 

[Jonathan19]

Aston Martin Valkyrie Guide in English, French and Dutch.

 

[VenomF5]

Thank You.🙂

 

[Bridster]

interesting stuff. Lawrence stroll really need to take a bow, his cost savings has accomplished a pretty significant increase in weight...

I've mentioned this previously, but I am not sure how much of the blame can really be laid at Stroll's feet.

1400kg is not a bad result for a car of this type and if it really does weigh this much, it's still gonna be within the top 5 lightest supercars released in the last 10 years (the others being the 675LT at 1360kg, the Senna at 1370kg, the Huayra BC Roadster at 1398kg and then the 600LT and 765LT being at about 1400kg depending on spec). The only reason, pretty much, that I keep highlighting the weight is: 1) because of the BS initial target weight of 1000kg that everyone, even in the press, still keeps repeating; and 2) because of AM's recent (well, couple of years) complete silence on the issue, even when directly asked.

Realistically I don't think that there is any way you could build this car any lighter than about 1250kg. It being 1400kg is not ideal, but I very much doubt they were ever on track for 1250kg even before Stroll got anywhere close to the project. Stroll only got involved in 2020 and by then the project had already been a giant mess and 2 years behind schedule. Calculating in AM's complete inexperience with building anything with performance, I believe the car at that point already was far behind the initial promises. I am sure that him being the cause of RB people leaving didn't help - and the loss of that talent might be directly responsible for the trouble the car is still currently experiencing, but as far as weight and design goes, I don't think the change would be that big. Maybe 50kg extra? Well, I am totally speculating here, but either way it's worth remembering that this has been an AM made car - whether Stroll got involved or not, it wouldn't have come out unscathed.

 

[VenomF5]

How Aston Martin and Red Bull Racing Reinvented Car Design

The new AM-RB 001 could usher in an era where even family sedans fly like F-1 race cars

www.wsj.com

October 2016 in the Wall Street Journal obviously in the United States of America.

Get a tea or coffee and read it. You tell me what you think.

 

[A West]

I've mentioned this previously, but I am not sure how much of the blame can really be laid at Stroll's feet.

1400kg is not a bad result for a car of this type and if it really does weigh this much, it's still gonna be within the top 5 lightest supercars released in the last 10 years (the others being the 675LT at 1360kg, the Senna at 1370kg, the Huayra BC Roadster at 1398kg and then the 600LT and 765LT being at about 1400kg depending on spec). The only reason, pretty much, that I keep highlighting the weight is: 1) because of the BS initial target weight of 1000kg that everyone, even in the press, still keeps repeating; and 2) because of AM's recent (well, couple of years) complete silence on the issue, even when directly asked.

Realistically I don't think that there is any way you could build this car any lighter than about 1250kg. It being 1400kg is not ideal, but I very much doubt they were ever on track for 1250kg even before Stroll got anywhere close to the project. Stroll only got involved in 2020 and by then the project had already been a giant mess and 2 years behind schedule. Calculating in AM's complete inexperience with building anything with performance, I believe the car at that point already was far behind the initial promises. I am sure that him being the cause of RB people leaving didn't help - and the loss of that talent might be directly responsible for the trouble the car is still currently experiencing, but as far as weight and design goes, I don't think the change would be that big. Maybe 50kg extra? Well, I am totally speculating here, but either way it's worth remembering that this has been an AM made car - whether Stroll got involved or not, it wouldn't have come out unscathed.

Not sure Aston ever had the talent to lose...
the project went from a money maker to break even to a loss leader, and in the process a lot of lightweight parts that were originally envisioned were replaced by cheaper/heavier parts.
the thing is, this is NOT a supercar, it is a hypercar, so weight should be benchmarked to that GMA t33 and t50 comes to mind.
and yes 1000kgs was always unrealistic, 1160 woudl have been ok...
and not sure where you get your Senna weight from

 

[ChrisK1982]

Not sure Aston ever had the talent to lose...
the project went from a money maker to break even to a loss leader, and in the process a lot of lightweight parts that were originally envisioned were replaced by cheaper/heavier parts.
the thing is, this is NOT a supercar, it is a hypercar, so weight should be benchmarked to that GMA t33 and t50 comes to mind.
and yes 1000kgs was always unrealistic, 1160 woudl have been ok...
and not sure where you get your Senna weight from

A friend of mine who is very close to 2 ppl owning a Valkyrie also told me that they basically screwed up the cars road use capabilities because they never tested it on the road for longer or in typical slow driving conditions So basically it was only tested on tracks with higher speed and no stop and go traffic etc which leads to the thermic problems they are still working on and seem to just not solve …

 

[Bridster]

Not sure Aston ever had the talent to lose...
the project went from a money maker to break even to a loss leader, and in the process a lot of lightweight parts that were originally envisioned were replaced by cheaper/heavier parts.

I am sure that happened, but this would have started happening before Stroll. Neither AM or RB had any idea what it would take to make the car to start with, but that's just what happens with inexperience.

the thing is, this is NOT a supercar, it is a hypercar, so weight should be benchmarked to that GMA t33 and t50 comes to mind.
and yes 1000kgs was always unrealistic, 1160 woudl have been ok...

When I say supercar, I am including hypercars as well. That's just the thing, there have been really barely any cars in the last 10 years that even came under 1400kg. The weight of the T.50, if true, is amazingly impressive and only possible because every single thing was turned in its favor, which is not the case for the Valkyrie where power and lap times were more important. The T.50 should be about 1050kg at the kerb, but just if you put the 1000hp Valkyrie engine in it, the car would gain approximately 100kg only from that. And then the Valkyrie is much bigger with bigger wheels and brakes, it's a hybrid, has way too many active aero and ride height elements powered by heavy hydraulics and it also needs to be much stiffer. That's why I say that 1250kg would be the lowest possible weight for it. 1160kg is not remotely realistic unless the car was to fall apart after one drive.

and not sure where you get your Senna weight from

From where I get all the weights I always quote - from someone actually having weighed the car!

 

[TougeSpirit]

I've mentioned this previously, but I am not sure how much of the blame can really be laid at Stroll's feet.

1400kg is not a bad result for a car of this type and if it really does weigh this much, it's still gonna be within the top 5 lightest supercars released in the last 10 years (the others being the 675LT at 1360kg, the Senna at 1370kg, the Huayra BC Roadster at 1398kg and then the 600LT and 765LT being at about 1400kg depending on spec). The only reason, pretty much, that I keep highlighting the weight is: 1) because of the BS initial target weight of 1000kg that everyone, even in the press, still keeps repeating; and 2) because of AM's recent (well, couple of years) complete silence on the issue, even when directly asked.

Realistically I don't think that there is any way you could build this car any lighter than about 1250kg. It being 1400kg is not ideal, but I very much doubt they were ever on track for 1250kg even before Stroll got anywhere close to the project. Stroll only got involved in 2020 and by then the project had already been a giant mess and 2 years behind schedule. Calculating in AM's complete inexperience with building anything with performance, I believe the car at that point already was far behind the initial promises. I am sure that him being the cause of RB people leaving didn't help - and the loss of that talent might be directly responsible for the trouble the car is still currently experiencing, but as far as weight and design goes, I don't think the change would be that big. Maybe 50kg extra? Well, I am totally speculating here, but either way it's worth remembering that this has been an AM made car - whether Stroll got involved or not, it wouldn't have come out unscathed.

T.50 986 kg. T.33 1090 kg. Cars today are too big and too heavy. If you want to build a track car, go build a midengine Gobbstopper 3 or RP968 and call it a day

 

[TougeSpirit]

I am sure that happened, but this would have started happening before Stroll. Neither AM or RB had any idea what it would take to make the car to start with, but that's just what happens with inexperience.

When I say supercar, I am including hypercars as well. That's just the thing, there have been really barely any cars in the last 10 years that even came under 1400kg. The weight of the T.50, if true, is amazingly impressive and only possible because every single thing was turned in its favor, which is not the case for the Valkyrie where power and lap times were more important. The T.50 should be about 1050kg at the kerb, but just if you put the 1000hp Valkyrie engine in it, the car would gain approximately 100kg only from that. And then the Valkyrie is much bigger with bigger wheels and brakes, it's a hybrid, has way too many active aero and ride height elements powered by heavy hydraulics and it also needs to be much stiffer. That's why I say that 1250kg would be the lowest possible weight for it. 1160kg is not remotely realistic unless the car was to fall apart after one drive.

From where I get all the weights I always quote - from someone actually having weighed the car!
View attachment 227581

You need to compare the same weights together. The T.50 986 kg weight without fuel is equivalent to the Valkyrie 1395 kg. That's 400 kg difference. 40% heavier than the T.50 which has a wider chassis for seating 3, much more upright seating position, significant luggage space, and you can actually hear inside it without headphones. Gordon could make a sub 900 kg road car I reckon if cockpit volume was minimized/compromised to be like a LMP car.

Also, it hasn't been talked about for awhile, but technically the T.50 can have electric boost from the ISG for 30 hp for 3 minutes. In effect, you might be able to have just about as long of a duration of electric boost as a Valkyrie in actual use. Not sure how to engage. VMAX mode, but if it's just as easy as turning the aero knob, you could use it like a KERS deployment

 

[Bridster]

You need to compare the same weights together. The T.50 986 kg weight without fuel is equivalent to the Valkyrie 1395 kg. That's 400 kg difference. 40% heavier than the T.50 which has a wider chassis for seating 3, much more upright seating position, significant luggage space, and you can actually hear inside it without headphones. Gordon could make a sub 900 kg road car I reckon if cockpit volume was minimized to be like a LMP car

I am comparing the same weights. The T.50's 986kg is the weight with fluids but without fuel, which is the same as the "Unladen Mass" in the Valkyrie manual, which is 1355kg. Kerb weight with full fuel would be 1046kg vs 1392kg.

Well, regardless, of course you could make a 1160kg car, or a 900kg car or whatever, but it would have to be quite different. I am talking about what's possible if you otherwise kept the same specs, ie. 1000hp engine, hybrid, same size, etc. For example, I think that if they ditched the hybrid system and scaled down the engine to 800hp, then 1160kg would probably be possible. Hell, if you look at something like the Caparo T1, that has a claimed dry weight of 470kg and a real kerb weight of probably around 600kg - but it's significantly smaller, much smaller engine, no hybrid... but also it did fall apart after every drive and the engine was only good for 5000km between rebuilds. So yeah, if you really wanted you could probably make a 600kg car, but you would have to pick a very different route to begin with.

 

[unotaz]

Here are two more datapoints on the Senna curb weight:

From Autocar (McLaren Senna review | Autocar)
"While McLaren quotes a “lightest possible dry weight” for the Senna of 1198kg, the less widely known homologated kerb weight for the car (running order, with 100% fuel) is 1314kg. Our test car weighed 1345kg fully fuelled..."

From Sport Auto Supertest: 1350kg

I am sure that happened, but this would have started happening before Stroll. Neither AM or RB had any idea what it would take to make the car to start with, but that's just what happens with inexperience.

When I say supercar, I am including hypercars as well. That's just the thing, there have been really barely any cars in the last 10 years that even came under 1400kg. The weight of the T.50, if true, is amazingly impressive and only possible because every single thing was turned in its favor, which is not the case for the Valkyrie where power and lap times were more important. The T.50 should be about 1050kg at the kerb, but just if you put the 1000hp Valkyrie engine in it, the car would gain approximately 100kg only from that. And then the Valkyrie is much bigger with bigger wheels and brakes, it's a hybrid, has way too many active aero and ride height elements powered by heavy hydraulics and it also needs to be much stiffer. That's why I say that 1250kg would be the lowest possible weight for it. 1160kg is not remotely realistic unless the car was to fall apart after one drive.

From where I get all the weights I always quote - from someone actually having weighed the car!
View attachment 227581

 

[ChrisK1982]

Here are two more datapoints on the Senna curb weight:

From Autocar (McLaren Senna review | Autocar)
"While McLaren quotes a “lightest possible dry weight” for the Senna of 1198kg, the less widely known homologated kerb weight for the car (running order, with 100% fuel) is 1314kg. Our test car weighed 1345kg fully fuelled..."

From Sport Auto Supertest: 1350kg

View attachment 227582

Seems plausible …

always need to remember that lightest possible means all non essential stuff like like stereo,AC etc… is also removed from the car, plus lightest tires and so on …

 

[TougeSpirit]

I am comparing the same weights. The T.50's 986kg is the weight with fluids but without fuel, which is the same as the "Unladen Mass" in the Valkyrie manual, which is 1355kg. Kerb weight with full fuel would be 1046kg vs 1392kg.

Well, regardless, of course you could make a 1160kg car, or a 900kg car or whatever, but it would have to be quite different. I am talking about what's possible if you otherwise kept the same specs, ie. 1000hp engine, hybrid, same size, etc. For example, I think that if they ditched the hybrid system and scaled down the engine to 800hp, then 1160kg would probably be possible. Hell, if you look at something like the Caparo T1, that has a claimed dry weight of 470kg and a real kerb weight of probably around 600kg - but it's significantly smaller, much smaller engine, no hybrid... but also it did fall apart after every drive and the engine was only good for 5000km between rebuilds. So yeah, if you really wanted you could probably make a 600kg car, but you would have to pick a very different route to begin with.

Somehow I derped and misread 1395 vs 1355.

But what I'm saying is, Gordon Murray could likely make a 900 kg car without changing anything other than making it two seater, lower roofline and seating position, and no storage. And that would be a comparable ergonomics situation with the Valkyrie and be more direct comparison. For the same reason, I wouldn't compare anything to a BAC Mono single seater

 

[unotaz]

For sure, the example that Autocar tested had no stereo but it had A/C. I can't imagine owning a car without stereo ever, and the stereo system in the Senna is pretty awesome

I did weigh my car back when I got it and it came out to around 2968lbs with 85% fuel (with stereo and A/C), but my car had no roof or door glass and it's not the normal Senna version either.

Seems plausible …

always need to remember that lightest possible means all non essential stuff like like stereo,AC etc… is also removed from the car, plus lightest tires and so on …

 

[Bridster]

Somehow I derped and misread 1395 vs 1355.

But what I'm saying is, Gordon Murray could likely make a 900 kg car without changing anything other than making it two seater, lower roofline and seating position, and no storage. And that would be a comparable ergonomics situation with the Valkyrie and be more direct comparison. For the same reason, I wouldn't compare anything to a BAC Mono single seater

This is getting a bit technical, but I don't think they could get to 900kg with the changes you suggested. The luggage space on the T.50 is basically free, it's an empty space that they introduced an opening to, and so the only added weight there is pretty much the rubber seals around the opening. Making it a two seater would shrink the canopy a bit, but that might net a few kg at best. In fact, making it a two seater might actually make the car heavier because you would have to increase the wheelbase so that there is enough space for the pedals without introducing offsets (which is what happened on the T.33). You could move the water radiators from the front and put them to where the luggage space is and that would cut a few kg, but only that because you are just talking some piping. The T.50 is already pretty cut to the bone so finding any weight would be pretty hard. I think that the most you could save would probably be on the interior and sound proofing and then on exterior panels if you made them a lot thinner. That's basically what they did on the T.50S which is supposed to be 852kg.

In any case I kinda lost track of what's really being discussed here. Yeah, maybe you could make a 900kg T.50, but although that might have a comparable ergonomics to the Valkyrie, nothing else would be comparable, so you still can't really say that it should be possible for the Valkyrie to be much lighter. I already gave an example with the more powerful engine making the car much heavier, but it's other stuff as well. For example, the highest weight with all the downforce the T.50 experiences is 1046+75+322=1443kg. For the Valkyrie it's 1392+75+1400=2867kg. So, now the wheels, the hubs, the bearings, the upright, the connecting arms, the spring and the damper all have to be twice as strong! Because of how geometry works out that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be twice as heavy, but still, significantly heavier! Another problem is that the Valkyrie is very stiffly sprung and your chassis stiffness needs to match that. So where the T.50 can get away with "just" 27000Nm/mm, the Valkyrie might have to be 2-3x as stiff! Which, again, means the chassis needs to be made much heavier. And, also, the wheelbase is longer, so the distance between front and rear suspension pick up points is longer, so you need to make the chassis heavier still to get to that increased stiffness number! And this just goes on and on. Power, downforce, size, all big enemies of light weight!

 

[LRHunter]

Don’t forget about the Praga Bohema. Claimed weight of 982kg.