[eMcL]

I watched "Driven" about John DeLorean couple of months ago. It was actually great entertainment.

Have to be careful watching horror movies

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Supposedly next week.



Nothing else may drive like a McLaren . . . if you have a McLaren to drive. I do not, and it now appears that I will not for a very long time, if ever. Porsches and Ferraris drive better than the elusive dream of an Artura at some unknown point in the future when McLaren finally gets its shit together. I have dealt with delayed super cars before. That said, I have never seen a company engage in the haphazard approach undertaken by McLaren concerning the Artura.

The Artura was supposed to be McLaren's daily driven super car and that was my intended use of the car. My dealer repeatedly assured me (including yesterday) that my delivery was on schedule and I would have my car this month. I sold my existing daily driver in reliance on these assurances (with my dealer's knowledge, encouragement, and assistance). Unlike some people here who have a stable of supercars to choose from, I do not. Now, McLaren is pulling the rug out from under me three weeks before my Artura was supposed to arrive.

Bad mouth Porsche and Ferrari all you want, but a bird in the hand . . . I would rather drive an inferior Porsche or Ferrari than wait an indefinite period -- maybe another six months, maybe another year, nobody knows -- for McLaren to get its head out of its ass and resolve the multiple problems with the Artura.

Yes, it is better for McLaren to fix problems in advance, rather than deliver flawed cars to customers. However, McLaren's haphazard approach to the development and completion of the Artura has been utterly unprofessional and disorganized. McLaren should have ironed out the problems before commencing the initial roll-out of the Artura. Instead, McLaren delivered flawed cars to reviewers, then weathered a storm of adverse publicity regarding its flawed cars. Thereafter, McLaren delayed customer deliveries while it purported to fix the remaining problems with the Artura exposed by the third party reviews. Then, after further delays and scrambling to fix the car, Artura finally commenced customer deliveries of what was supposed to be the completed, perfected, ready for primetime car. But, is wasn't ready for primetime. The Artura is still flawed . . . still has material problems. Now, McLaren is putting its foot on the brakes yet again. McLaren cannot get out of its own way.

Meanwhile, people like me are left in the lurch. The Artura was supposed to be my daily driver. Now, I must scramble for a replacement.

The Artura was supposed to be my first McLaren. I was brimming with enthusiasm and excitement over the Artura. I consistently and zealously espoused the attributes of the car, both on this forum and elsewhere, and defended it against naysayers. I remained excited as the original delivery date was delayed, then delayed again. I remained excited and defended the car through inconsistent third party reviews. As my posts on this forum illustrate, I have been among the Artura's most ardent and vocal supporters. But, my patience has run out. I will not sit by and wait an indeterminate amount of time for McLaren to figure things out. Enough is enough. I want a new car and, if McLaren cannot deliver it to me, I have no choice to go elsewhere.

I hope you are reading this McLaren. I suspect I am one of many new customers for which the Artura was going to be our first foray into the brand. It was everything we were looking for . . . a daily drivable supercar alternative to the 911TT, MC20, R8, F8, etc. You had a golden opportunity to convert people like me who had not previously owned a McLaren. Unfortunately, you squandered that opportunity. I am confident that, in response to the forthcoming announcement, many will walk and not look back. You have lost us as customers. You have also lost one of your most zealous supporters of the Artura. Read my prior posts on this forum. I consistently and passionately advocated for the Artura. No longer.

Reading between the lines, it seems the 'bad news' is announcement of more delays on the Artura and some kind of significant fault. I feel bad for the few owners that just got the cars delivered, and I wonder if it relates to the one report on the forum of a hybrid-limp-mode-situation?

Anyway, to @Superfluous , really sorry to hear that man. Totally sucks. And agree with everything you say. You are a huge booster of the car and brand, and for you to feel so burned is terrible (both for you personally and for McLaren as a company to have likely many other supporters feel so wronged).

But if what I'm reading between the lines there is correct, this seems really a drastically bad state of affairs where, perhaps, marketing/accounting pushed a car out that engineering wasn't done with, and this could be some really ugly fallout. Which is a terrible shame. Because, my guess is, in the end they will get the car sorted and it will be magnificent, but not before shooting themselves in the....foot... from a continued horrendous marketing vantage, yet, again.

In some ways this is really bad. As an original MP4-12C purchaser, I went in with eyes wide open that I'm essentially a beta tester of a 1.0 product by a 1.0 company, and expected this kind of stuff. But people signing up for a McLaren, today, rightly, have every right and expectation to not feel like they are beta testers.

@Superfluous is there any chance that they can do something for you? I ask because we have seen some cars delivered, and I it seems those that got them have been enjoying them for the most part. Is this purely an allocation (eg supply chain) problem for you (and obviously many others) or is this more of a major engineering problem that will just have to be dealt with first, before cars can start rolling out again?

It seems regardless of either scenario, this will be bad for McLaren's cash flow, and I guess, ergo the sale of the F1 cars is needed, and likely they will soon need some cash infusion. I don't think it's quite Aston Martin bleak yet, but it's probably getting a touch too similar for comfort.

 

[invisiblewave]

The worst case scenario would be a tidal wave of cancelled orders, then another 6 month cycle of software changes and validation followed by an oversupply of cars that the dealers are unable to shift.

 

[pkpoco]

q3-ytd-2022-results-presentation.pdf (mclaren.com)

 

[Bob_D]

Nothing else may drive like a McLaren . . . if you have a McLaren to drive. I do not, and it now appears that I will not for a very long time, if ever.

@Superfluous I FEEL YOUR PAIN... !! I am trundling along behind you, waiting for the Artura Spider for me to pull the trigger and finally give myself the retirement present of my first supercar after putting everyone else's priorities above mine for so many years... I did my due diligence & was ready to spec a 570S Spider, but once I got my financial shit together, Mac had converted the line over to production of the 2020 GT, and I went back to sitting on the sidelines while their Gen2 reboot of the Sports Series worked its way through their system.

I've been pretty upbeat and positive as a Mac cheerleader myself, and hearing this most recent news definitely has my panties in a bunch. I grew up just knowing some day a 911 was to be my midlife crisis lady, but Mac won me over and now I don't want to go back to the plain vanilla that 'other car' has become to me... I guess F-ME for not finding a way to make a 570 work when I had the chance...

 

[K981CS]

Supposedly next week.



Nothing else may drive like a McLaren . . . if you have a McLaren to drive. I do not, and it now appears that I will not for a very long time, if ever. Porsches and Ferraris drive better than the elusive dream of an Artura at some unknown point in the future when McLaren finally gets its shit together. I have dealt with delayed super cars before. That said, I have never seen a company engage in the haphazard approach undertaken by McLaren concerning the Artura.

The Artura was supposed to be McLaren's daily driven super car and that was my intended use of the car. My dealer repeatedly assured me (including yesterday) that my delivery was on schedule and I would have my car this month. I sold my existing daily driver in reliance on these assurances (with my dealer's knowledge, encouragement, and assistance). Unlike some people here who have a stable of supercars to choose from, I do not. Now, McLaren is pulling the rug out from under me three weeks before my Artura was supposed to arrive.

Bad mouth Porsche and Ferrari all you want, but a bird in the hand . . . I would rather drive an inferior Porsche or Ferrari than wait an indefinite period -- maybe another six months, maybe another year, nobody knows -- for McLaren to get its head out of its ass and resolve the multiple problems with the Artura.

Yes, it is better for McLaren to fix problems in advance, rather than deliver flawed cars to customers. However, McLaren's haphazard approach to the development and completion of the Artura has been utterly unprofessional and disorganized. McLaren should have ironed out the problems before commencing the initial roll-out of the Artura. Instead, McLaren delivered flawed cars to reviewers, then weathered a storm of adverse publicity regarding its flawed cars. Thereafter, McLaren delayed customer deliveries while it purported to fix the remaining problems with the Artura exposed by the third party reviews. Then, after further delays and scrambling to fix the car, Artura finally commenced customer deliveries of what was supposed to be the completed, perfected, ready for primetime car. But, is wasn't ready for primetime. The Artura is still flawed . . . still has material problems. Now, McLaren is putting its foot on the brakes yet again. McLaren cannot get out of its own way.

Meanwhile, people like me are left in the lurch. The Artura was supposed to be my daily driver. Now, I must scramble for a replacement.

The Artura was supposed to be my first McLaren. I was brimming with enthusiasm and excitement over the Artura. I consistently and zealously espoused the attributes of the car, both on this forum and elsewhere, and defended it against naysayers. I remained excited as the original delivery date was delayed, then delayed again. I remained excited and defended the car through inconsistent third party reviews. As my posts on this forum illustrate, I have been among the Artura's most ardent and vocal supporters. But, my patience has run out. I will not sit by and wait an indeterminate amount of time for McLaren to figure things out. Enough is enough. I want a new car and, if McLaren cannot deliver it to me, I have no choice to go elsewhere.

I hope you are reading this McLaren. I suspect I am one of many new customers for which the Artura was going to be our first foray into the brand. It was everything we were looking for . . . a daily drivable supercar alternative to the 911TT, MC20, R8, F8, etc. You had a golden opportunity to convert people like me who had not previously owned a McLaren. Unfortunately, you squandered that opportunity. I am confident that, in response to the forthcoming announcement, many will walk and not look back. You have lost us as customers. You have also lost one of your most zealous supporters of the Artura. Read my prior posts on this forum. I consistently and passionately advocated for the Artura. No longer.

IMHO: if you're canceling solely on the basis of technical delays, I'd say you're overreacting a bit. I loved the Artura from my 40-minutes spent with the car, and truly think it's the best 911 fighter McLaren's ever made, not to mention that it's an all around fantastic supercar. I also just toured McL HQ last week, had a great and frank conversation with one of their top designers, and am more confident than ever that, thanks to Leiters at the helm, the company is headed in the right direction, and doing what it needs to do to ensure long-term confidence in Artura and all of its future products.

Of course, if your dealership encouraged you to sell your previous car prematurely, I could understand that rubbing someone the wrong way if you didn't get a replacement car on time. But I'm sure there was a benefit to you in selling that early, not to mention that your dealer likely didn't see this coming (I can't recall any other highly anticipated auto launch, then delay, then launch, then stoppage, etc.). In any event: if it were me, I would give it until EOY before making any decisions.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[eMcL]

Yes anticipate that McLaren‘s new management team with its experience gained at Porsche/VW/Audi/Ferrari will take care to not ship cars with problems to customers. It may take time ie further delays but may well be worth waiting for …

 

[Dwarfking]

I was told 720S update is planned for next Q1, so depending on next week’s info, I might just cancel and go for that. Waiting almost 2 years and waiting for another won’t make much a difference anymore…

 

[Superfluous]

While I cannot reveal details, suffice it to say that the latest issue is not a small hiccup -- not merely a programing issue, wifi disruption, or faulty oil cooler. This is a core, major issue and the corresponding delay will likely be considerable.

It goes without saying that McLaren must fix the problem before delivering any more cars. I am not suggesting otherwise. The issue is whether I am willing to wait -- sans super car -- for an indeterminate period of time until McLaren resolves the current obstacle. If I told you the wait will be three years, I suspect most/all would abandon the Artura in favor of something else. If I told you the wait will be three weeks, all of us would stay the course. To be clear, the wait will be neither three weeks nor three years. My point is simply that we all have our limits and, at some point, all of us will cut bait and proceed in a different direction.

It would be a different story if I had seven super cars in my garage and I could simply pivot to one of the others cars while I wait. Unfortunately, I do not have such options. I do not want to deprive my wife of her 911 and I do not want to daily drive our SUV for the next year.

Ironically, I am the exact customer targeted by McLaren for the Artura -- someone who only has one super car and daily drives it -- someone looking for an alternative to the 911TT (I have owned four). The Artura is also intended to attract new customers to the brand who were previously reluctant given the pervasive rumors concerning reliability. Again, thats me. Unfortunately, this latest obstacle will surely dissuade many target customers like me. Our desire to try McLaren only goes so far. The Mac diehards will remain loyal. However, McLaren needs new blood to succeed in the long run and this fiasco will materially set back McLaren's pursuit of new customers (like me).

I have decided to wait until next week. I am supposed to receive some additional information that will guide my decision. I still want an Artura -- it remains my first choice. That said, my patience has limits. I sincerely hope McLaren will figure out a way to navigate this debacle before its too late.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

While I cannot reveal details, suffice it to say that the latest issue is not a small hiccup -- not merely a programing issue, wifi disruption, or faulty oil cooler. This is a core, major issue and the corresponding delay will likely be considerable.

It goes without saying that McLaren must fix the problem before delivering any more cars. I am not suggesting otherwise. The issue is whether I am willing to wait -- sans super car -- for an indeterminate period of time until McLaren resolves the current obstacle. If I told you the wait will be three years, I suspect most/all would abandon the Artura in favor of something else. If I told you the wait will be three weeks, all of us would stay the course. To be clear, the wait will be neither three weeks nor three years. My point is simply that we all have our limits and, at some point, all of us will cut bait and proceed in a different direction.

It would be a different story if I had seven super cars in my garage and I could simply pivot to one of the others cars while I wait. Unfortunately, I do not have such options. I do not want to deprive my wife of her 911 and I do not want to daily drive our SUV for the next year.

Ironically, I am the exact customer targeted by McLaren for the Artura -- someone who only has one super car and daily drives it -- someone looking for an alternative to the 911TT (I have owned four). The Artura is also intended to attract new customers to the brand who were previously reluctant given the pervasive rumors concerning reliability. Again, thats me. Unfortunately, this latest obstacle will surely dissuade many target customers like me. Our desire to try McLaren only goes so far. The Mac diehards will remain loyal. However, McLaren needs new blood to succeed in the long run and this fiasco will materially set back McLaren's pursuit of new customers (like me).

I have decided to wait until next week. I am supposed to receive some additional information that will guide my decision. I still want an Artura -- it remains my first choice. That said, my patience has limits. I sincerely hope McLaren will figure out a way to navigate this debacle before its too late.

For some reason you sound defensive as if you have to explain yourself. Dont get me wrong, I'm thrilled to hear your thinking. But man, there is NOTHING for you to feel defensive about. Your points are totally reasonable IMO. This is not a problem with you, this is a problem with them dropping the ball.

I still hope it works out for you, and that mclaren can fix whatever this thing is reasonably quickly.

Sadly, because your response is more than reasonable, I fear a lot of other people will rightly feel it's too much to bear and walk away.

Hope that's not the case. Look no one or entity is perfect. So f'ups are to be expected. Those that dont seem to learn from past f'ups...mclarern marketing comes to mind... I have less sympathy for. But as an institution, these are highly complex forward looking things, and so f'ups are to be expected.

Despite and because all of that, I still love mclaren. I guess I always like the underdog. But it seems to me they do try to do the right thing, more than most other brands. And so I'm still rooting for them. They have great people, great designers and engineers. I want them to shine like they deserve to, because they are putting out really great things into the world, and super great vibes, IMO. Makes them exceptional. I hope they can deal with this and avoid further unforced errors. They are great, but I agree with you, reasonable peoples' patience only goes so far.

 

[mclarenme]

I was afraid this was gonna happen with the artura.. 1st yr blues with lots to sort out. It's a completely new platform.. new drivetrain, tech, ethernet wiring, etc. These are not easy sometimes and will need a couple yrs to sort out. You can always go with the non hybrid models. GL.

 

[patartur]

I can't believe that the Mclaren story can stop now
they will find investors 🤞

 

[unmac]

Mclaren will come out looking pretty good with the decision they made when this is all said and done .

as people mentioned in the past … some of the cars have been sitting around for the last year and people were getting antsy about taking deliveries of cars that were 12 to 14 months old.

 

[Lotus000]

While I cannot reveal details, suffice it to say that the latest issue is not a small hiccup -- not merely a programing issue, wifi disruption, or faulty oil cooler. This is a core, major issue and the corresponding delay will likely be considerable.

It goes without saying that McLaren must fix the problem before delivering any more cars. I am not suggesting otherwise. The issue is whether I am willing to wait -- sans super car -- for an indeterminate period of time until McLaren resolves the current obstacle. If I told you the wait will be three years, I suspect most/all would abandon the Artura in favor of something else. If I told you the wait will be three weeks, all of us would stay the course. To be clear, the wait will be neither three weeks nor three years. My point is simply that we all have our limits and, at some point, all of us will cut bait and proceed in a different direction.

It would be a different story if I had seven super cars in my garage and I could simply pivot to one of the others cars while I wait. Unfortunately, I do not have such options. I do not want to deprive my wife of her 911 and I do not want to daily drive our SUV for the next year.

Ironically, I am the exact customer targeted by McLaren for the Artura -- someone who only has one super car and daily drives it -- someone looking for an alternative to the 911TT (I have owned four). The Artura is also intended to attract new customers to the brand who were previously reluctant given the pervasive rumors concerning reliability. Again, thats me. Unfortunately, this latest obstacle will surely dissuade many target customers like me. Our desire to try McLaren only goes so far. The Mac diehards will remain loyal. However, McLaren needs new blood to succeed in the long run and this fiasco will materially set back McLaren's pursuit of new customers (like me).

I have decided to wait until next week. I am supposed to receive some additional information that will guide my decision. I still want an Artura -- it remains my first choice. That said, my patience has limits. I sincerely hope McLaren will figure out a way to navigate this debacle before its too late.

question: WHY can’t you divulge details? Unless you signed some sort of NDA there’s nothing preventing you from sharing what you know. You don’t owe your dealer or the brand anything aside from money for the car. You and I placed orders fairly similar to the same time (I think) and in similar situations re: being new to the brand after moving from Porsche.
I’m incredibly interested at what this news is and how much it is likely to delay my alleged March 2023 delivery.

 

[Iron5]

While I cannot reveal details, suffice it to say that the latest issue is not a small hiccup -- not merely a programing issue, wifi disruption, or faulty oil cooler. This is a core, major issue and the corresponding delay will likely be considerable.

It goes without saying that McLaren must fix the problem before delivering any more cars. I am not suggesting otherwise. The issue is whether I am willing to wait -- sans super car -- for an indeterminate period of time until McLaren resolves the current obstacle. If I told you the wait will be three years, I suspect most/all would abandon the Artura in favor of something else. If I told you the wait will be three weeks, all of us would stay the course. To be clear, the wait will be neither three weeks nor three years. My point is simply that we all have our limits and, at some point, all of us will cut bait and proceed in a different direction.

It would be a different story if I had seven super cars in my garage and I could simply pivot to one of the others cars while I wait. Unfortunately, I do not have such options. I do not want to deprive my wife of her 911 and I do not want to daily drive our SUV for the next year.

Ironically, I am the exact customer targeted by McLaren for the Artura -- someone who only has one super car and daily drives it -- someone looking for an alternative to the 911TT (I have owned four). The Artura is also intended to attract new customers to the brand who were previously reluctant given the pervasive rumors concerning reliability. Again, thats me. Unfortunately, this latest obstacle will surely dissuade many target customers like me. Our desire to try McLaren only goes so far. The Mac diehards will remain loyal. However, McLaren needs new blood to succeed in the long run and this fiasco will materially set back McLaren's pursuit of new customers (like me).

I have decided to wait until next week. I am supposed to receive some additional information that will guide my decision. I still want an Artura -- it remains my first choice. That said, my patience has limits. I sincerely hope McLaren will figure out a way to navigate this debacle before its too late.

My 650S should have been delivered in the spring of 2016, my dealer knew how much I was looking forward to the car. Unfortunately, there was then a delivery delay of four months. My dealer has provided me, without me asking him for it, for the four months free of charge a 570S. I will be forever loyal to this dealer.

I know that was extremely courteous and generous of my dealer. What I want to say, where there is a will there is a way, there are always solutions.

I keep my fingers crossed that you will find a bridging solution together.

 

[Iron5]

question: WHY can’t you divulge details? Unless you signed some sort of NDA there’s nothing preventing you from sharing what you know. You don’t owe your dealer or the brand anything aside from money for the car. You and I placed orders fairly similar to the same time (I think) and in similar situations re: being new to the brand after moving from Porsche.
I’m incredibly interested at what this news is and how much it is likely to delay my alleged March 2023 delivery.

It's not fair to put pressure on Superfluous now. There are things you just don't say in a public forum, which I think is great. To exchange sensitive insights there is still the PM function...

 

[Lotus000]

It's not fair to put pressure on Superfluous now. There are things you just don't say in a public forum, which I think is great. To exchange sensitive insights there is still the PM function...

not intending to pressure anyone; can see how it could seem that way.

 

[roundincircles]

Not that it helps anyone but I've been waiting 18 months for a Lotus Emira, first promised in July, then Sept......etc, and now 2023. No specific reasons given other than 'supply chain' issues. So I have cancelled and get a Porker in Jan 23. I can get an Artura in 4 months but will wait until it is sorted. I have had two driving sessions in the Artura, one thrashing at Millbrook Proving Ground and none of the cars, on the day, had problems but the Mac staff did say a final software update was due! As an early adopter of the 12C amongst other Mclarens I think delaying the Artura is a good step by the 'new' management........being a beta tester with an early 720S was a complete waste of time before I rejected it. The replacement 720S was solid and a very different day-to-day experience.

 

[626]

Have they determined the issue for the car that went into limp mode on the highway? Hopefully an easy fix.

UPDATE: My dealership said I can pick up my Artura (that had Hybrid System Fault while driving 80mph on a highway). They said that the warning message was no longer there. They did confirm that they were able to see the event I experienced on the car’s computer. They extracted and sent this data to McLaren.
I was told that since there were no current faults, the car was good to go. I tried to find out if this was a software issue, and most importantly, what was done to address this to make sure it didn’t happen again. I was told that the data was sent to McLaren and that there was nothing else that needed to be done at this point. “All we can tell you is drive carefully.” I was assured that my specific issue was escalated to the right people. I continue to be hopeful that the hard working and talented engineers at McLaren will be able to dissect this further. Until then, it’s going to be hard not to be worried about a reoccurrence while driving.

 

[invisiblewave]

UPDATE: My dealership said I can pick up my Artura (that had Hybrid System Fault while driving 80mph on a highway). They said that the warning message was no longer there. They did confirm that they were able to see the event I experienced on the car’s computer. They extracted and sent this data to McLaren.
I was told that since there were no current faults, the car was good to go. I tried to find out if this was a software issue, and most importantly, what was done to address this to make sure it didn’t happen again. I was told that the data was sent to McLaren and that there was nothing else that needed to be done at this point. “All we can tell you is drive carefully.” I was assured that my specific issue was escalated to the right people. I continue to be hopeful that the hard working and talented engineers at McLaren will be able to dissect this further. Until then, it’s going to be hard not to be worried about a reoccurrence while driving.

Damn. That's going to be fun every time you're on the highway!