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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I spend a lot of time on my sim rigs these days, and thought it might be fun to see if any other McLaren owners would be interested in a weekly virtual race on the iRacing platform. I'd be happy to setup a server weekly for people to join and get some virtual racing with other McLaren owners.

Here's what I'm thinking might be fun...weekly session (free to all that join in), with a 1-2 hour practice followed by qualifying/race for those that want to continue beyond the practice time. Car's can be either the GT3 class or GTE class, with track focus on the biggies like Spa, Catalunya, COTA, etc. Just something fun and fast for those of us still stuck in lockdown.

If anyone is interested, I'll add the details for the first session today or tomorrow to this thread. I'm thinking a Wednesday evening or weekend session that supports as many time zones as possible would be ideal, but open to whatever works for those that are interested in participating.

Again...no cost to anyone unless you want to make a side bet with your friends on who's fastest. This can be open to any enthusiast of other marques as well...just want to get like minded people together for some fun virtual racing if anyone is interested!
 

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How is the McLaren handling in iRacing?
I found in Project Cars that the 720s is very squirrely. It feels right on in terms of power, but must have traction control and antilock braking turned off, as it's all over the road and quite hard to get used to - much more so than in real life. The 570 handles much better in Project Cars, though I have not driven a 570 in real life to compare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The 12C GT3 can be a handful if you don't drive it properly in iRacing. Has a lot of understeer on corner exit if you're too early on throttle. In my opinion, you have to be much more precise with positioning it to get the max out of it vs. other GT3 cars in iRacing, and because of that I rarely see people using it in races.

It is in no way like the 720s on Project Cars. That thing is almost undriveable. I'm not a big fan of Project Cars as a simulation, although the graphics are stunning.

I'd be happy to post a video of a lap in the 12C GT3 or shoot you a link to one if you'd like to see how it handles in iRacing. LMK!
 

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Have you tried Assetto Corsa Competizione? That sim has both the McLaren 720S GT3 as well as the 650S GT3.

It requires a bit more powerful computer setup to run well compared with iRacing, but I find the physics/driving simulation and force feedback to be much better. Of course, this may come down to personal taste but at least with my setup ACC feels a lot more like driving on the track in terms of how the cars handle. In ACC, I have much better control of the car on the limit in ways that I would expect. With iRacing I'm spending more time trying to unlearn some things and adapt to their handling model, which differs more compared with what I've experienced at the track. The braking response in particular feels much better to me in ACC. That's not to say that ACC is easy; it is a proper simulation. It does this to a greater extent than iRacing in my opinion, which I think is why I find it more natural.

That said, iRacing seems more popular with folks running races online so I've been doing a bit of both. Given a choice, I would much prefer to be driving in ACC all of the time.
 

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Have you tried Assetto Corsa Competizione? That sim has both the McLaren 720S GT3 as well as the 650S GT3.
I liked Assetto Corsa, and think that the physics are pretty good for a few of the cars. It's VR support is awkward though, with no good in-game VR menus (at least last I checked), which is why I switched to Project Cars, where I can access everything with the controls on my wheel.

Depending on the car and track, I could argue AC or PC as better. A lot also depends on tweaking the setup, such as properly adjusting force feedback, which can be a nightmare to get right in either (especially PC).

I have been hesitant to try iRacing because it seems like you can't just monkey around and try out lots of cars on open tracks without first working your way up the ranks. It seems more focused on being competitive against other players and simulating a career, which I really don't care about. I'm also not a fan of subscription based anything, though I could change my mind if I knew the game would deliver to my needs.

My perfect sim would be one where you drive mountain roads with super realistic supercars, and have to look out for the occasional other bit of traffic, deer, potholes, and the like, but where if you mess up, you don't pay much of a price. Something where I could use the game itself to confidently determine which car to buy in real life next.

I have yet to be on any simulator that really behaves like a real car, though. Fundamentally, without a full motion platform, I don't see that happening, and the full motion platforms I have tried all seemed wonky as well - arcade physics, though I continue to search...
 

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I liked Assetto Corsa, and think that the physics are pretty good for a few of the cars. It's VR support is awkward though, with no good in-game VR menus (at least last I checked), which is why I switched to Project Cars, where I can access everything with the controls on my wheel.
I want to make sure that we're talking about Competizione, which is a sequel of sorts to the original Assetto Corsa although it focuses only on SRO GT3 series. The original Assetto Corsa is also pretty good, but ACC feels next level to me. That said, I use a triple-monitor setup and haven't tried VR. I've seen some complaints about VR in the ACC forums that make it seem that it works well for some folks and not others.

If you haven't tried it lately, I'd give it another shot. They put out a big update about a month ago that was supposed to improve the physics and force feedback quite a bit. I can't speak to the changes as I only tried the software starting a few weeks ago and was very impressed out of the box.

Depending on the car and track, I could argue AC or PC as better. A lot also depends on tweaking the setup, such as properly adjusting force feedback, which can be a nightmare to get right in either (especially PC).
It sounds like I'll need to try PC. I hadn't bothered yet because I wanted to focus more on the sim side and my understanding was that PC is a bit more toward the arcade end.

In terms of force feedback wheel setup in ACC, one slider that was a bit confusing to me is called "Dynamic Damping". Having a direct drive wheel, I had set that to zero initially but it turns out that it is poorly named and should be set mid-range (I use 50; they recommend 100). It represents an actual tire force. Road effects should be low (< 10% or so) and minimum force should be 0 for direct drive. I set the gain fairly high but low enough to easily avoid any FFB clipping.

I have been hesitant to try iRacing because it seems like you can't just monkey around and try out lots of cars on open tracks without first working your way up the ranks. It seems more focused on being competitive against other players and simulating a career, which I really don't care about. I'm also not a fan of subscription based anything, though I could change my mind if I knew the game would deliver to my needs.
With iRacing you are free to run a test session on whatever track you own with whatever car you own. In that sense you can monkey around, but you'll be by yourself and you can't even add AI opponents to at least provide some traffic. There isn't really a career mode as they have in some sims or games. Instead you find a race or league and try to join in as you wish. They do have a notion of safety rating and licenses, so unless you doing a private league you have to work your way up a bit.

I agree that the subscription part is annoying, and on top of that you have to purchase tracks and cars individually (aside from the initial set they give you). It does have a lot of tracks and variety.

I initially purchased my sim setup thinking that it would be mainly for iRacing, but after it was all set up I started to worry that it was all a waste because I didn't seem to enjoy iRacing all that much. I couldn't get in to the feel of the cars. It seemed useful for learning the tracks a bit, but I didn't feel that it was very good practice, which is what I was hoping for. That's probably why I'm ranting/enthusing about ACC since it made me knock the dust off my sim and really start getting into it. That lead me back to iRacing a bit since there is a league that I want to participate in, and as I set it up better I'm starting to appreciate it a bit more. I'm starting to think that it can help improve some of my skills and habits, but I still feel that it is inaccurate enough that it may regress others. I'd still prefer to be on ACC.

My perfect sim would be one where you drive mountain roads with super realistic supercars, and have to look out for the occasional other bit of traffic, deer, potholes, and the like, but where if you mess up, you don't pay much of a price. Something where I could use the game itself to confidently determine which car to buy in real life next.

I have yet to be on any simulator that really behaves like a real car, though. Fundamentally, without a full motion platform, I don't see that happening, and the full motion platforms I have tried all seemed wonky as well - arcade physics, though I continue to search...
My sim is a bit of a motion platform. It used D-Box actuators, and I'm happy to describe more if you are interested. My main takeaway is that motion (at home) won't ever really work. I can set it to focus on pitching and rolling the chassis, but it just doesn't really give a sensation of the forces since it is too far off what you'd feel in a car. Where it does work well is if you have it focus on the suspension and road feel aspects. It can really feel like you are going over a curb or cracks in the track surface. The motion works a bit when it is subtle, such as when you are on a banking and the rig tilts a bit or when it is not so subtle when you crash, but you'll never feel proper acceleration/deceleration from the mere tilt of the thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have a couple sim rigs. The one I use the most is a Thrustmaster TS/PC wheel on a racing seat. I am 100% on VR when using this, and that's why I'm a big(ger) fan of iRacing than the others. The visuals are stunning at max quality, and you can really get into the game.

@carlolsen You can drive any car/track you want, set to whatever time/temp you want on iRacing as long as you own them. They have a test session where it's just you and the track. Agree that Project Cars has iRacing beat in this regard. Watched an on-board a couple of days ago of Mike Hawthorn driving a D-Type around Le Mans with a camera and microphone. He was avoiding bicyclists, delivery vehicles, etc. So much fun to watch and wish these games had some more open road stuff.

I have ACC, but I've yet to get it to work properly in VR. Until I (or they) can sort that out, I'm sticking mostly with iRacing. I have fallen a bit in love with rFactor2 lately, and really enjoy their tire modeling and physics. So much better that iRacing in my opinion.

My full-motion rig is a SimXperience Stage 5. Not sure what motion rig you have @enoent , but mine really emulates braking and acceleration in an amazing way. I have the g-Seat add-on, so that helps, but I love going full-motion in these games, especially with VR. It can get quite intense! Here's my full-motion rig setup..

202415
 

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Awesome info.
Just picking up my first system (VR for flight sim) and am curious about the car side of things. They have come a long way since I used a simple PC sim to learn Spa before coming across the pond to race (Historic - not real racing :).

Indy,
Especially interested in your comments on VR. I'm just starting to sort my way through the maze that is WMR and OpenVR. By chance is there a 99 Champcar in a sim that can be run at, say, Road Atlanta, Road America, The Glen,,? :)


Just read the piece above on Mac taking IRacing seriously. Can you imagine if some of these teams allow top sim code to percolate down to the IRace or similar environment separating out custom (proprietary) setup files? They could bypass budget caps while still getting everything they need from the sim environment (and not share car specific development coding).

I guess we can hope.
 

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I've been wanting to get into this as well. Wonder what equipment folks think is good and platforms. So hearing the back and forth regarding iRacing and ACC is really useful.

I have been thinking that VR might be a really good application here. I'm also thinking about going to finish up my pilot's license, so some gear that might do double duty is also a fun idea!

Definitely subscribed to this thread.

Anyway, curious if there is an "it" set of gear that most folks have settled on. It seems to be a bit of the Wild West upon my cursory look.
 

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I will pass along one bit of advice from MudSpike regarding Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) and VR. I'm interested in DCS as it will let me sit back seat in the L-39 and walk new buyers through where to look doing aerobatics/unusual attitudes and how to manage energy in the airframe all without having to worry about 250 kts below 10k or high sustained Gs and GLOC. The warning from the MudSpike site went something like-

Be careful getting into this stuff. It's not plug and play, can be horribly frustrating and unbelievably exciting and enjoyable. It is a mother loving rabbit hole that will chew up every spare minute and dollar you have.

Near as I can tell, there will be a steep learning curve getting the VR stuff to work. Like others on this forum, I suspect the $s are not the issue but time is a precious commodity.

On the flight side, VR drives the $s up for the PC with the graphic card (commonly referred to as the GPU or graphics processing unit) being roughly 50%. I just ordered a PC with the latest Intel CPU and a RTX3090 graphics card as that is what seems to be needed to run the high res VR sets. My goggle choice was the HP Reverb G2 which seems to strike the right balance cost to performance. Plan on $200-$700 for a Hands On Throttle and Stick or HOTAS. I started considering Logitec but ended up going for the Thrustmaster Warthog.

On the car sim side, It looks like $1500 for a reasonable seat with direct feedback wheel and pressure cell pedals????? This thread has been very helpful in directing my searches. Thanks folks!!!!
 

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I will pass along one bit of advice from MudSpike regarding Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) and VR. I'm interested in DCS as it will let me sit back seat in the L-39 and walk new buyers through where to look doing aerobatics/unusual attitudes and how to manage energy in the airframe all without having to worry about 250 kts below 10k or high sustained Gs and GLOC. The warning from the MudSpike site went something like-

Be careful getting into this stuff. It's not plug and play, can be horribly frustrating and unbelievably exciting and enjoyable. It is a mother loving rabbit hole that will chew up every spare minute and dollar you have.

Near as I can tell, there will be a steep learning curve getting the VR stuff to work. Like others on this forum, I suspect the $s are not the issue but time is a precious commodity.

On the flight side, VR drives the $s up for the PC with the graphic card (commonly referred to as the GPU or graphics processing unit) being roughly 50%. I just ordered a PC with the latest Intel CPU and a RTX3090 graphics card as that is what seems to be needed to run the high res VR sets. My goggle choice was the HP Reverb G2 which seems to strike the right balance cost to performance. Plan on $200-$700 for a Hands On Throttle and Stick or HOTAS.

On the sim side, It looks like $1500 for a reasonable seat with direct feedback wheel and pressure cell pedals?????
I'm slowly putting my toe in the rabbit hole. Trying to educate myself and understand what constitutes a good setup. I have resigned myself that a muscle'y PC will be needed. Trying to figure out what wheel/gear shift/peddles/flight stick/yoke/peddles/seat/etc. make the most sense.

I may be wrong but seems like figuring out the seat (some are glorified lawn chairs but I hear good things about some of them) and some are full on hydraulic seat moving rigs. It's interesting to hear that the moving seats have limited benefit with car sims, but I wonder if they might not be more useful for flight sims?
 

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I'm slowly putting my toe in the rabbit hole. Trying to educate myself and understand what constitutes a good setup. I have resigned myself that a muscle'y PC will be needed. Trying to figure out what wheel/gear shift/peddles/flight stick/yoke/peddles/seat/etc. make the most sense.

I may be wrong but seems like figuring out the seat (some are glorified lawn chairs but I hear good things about some of them) and some are full on hydraulic seat moving rigs. It's interesting to hear that the moving seats have limited benefit with car sims, but I wonder if they might not be more useful for flight sims?
I'm leaning towards one of the fold up rigs for car sim stuff but want to make sure there is sufficient stiffness/stability to use the load cell braking capability.

Movement and fancy seats are useless in flight simulation (IMO). The rumble and screen shake at high angles of attack in any of the performance jets is SOOOOO good that I found myself involuntarily releasing back pressure on my right hand WHILE WATCHING a YouTube video :0
 

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I am not an expert here, so what I post is more for brainstorm and discussion, but I am also researching my next sim racing setup.

At the moment, I have been really enjoying VR for both car and flight sims, and for me now VR is the only way I want to play. The big advantage is the massive sense of "being there" as opposed to "driving by remote" you get with a multi-monitor setup. The big drawback is that it is hard to see way in the distance when driving, or up close instruments when flying, due to the low resolution of the headsets (though that is getting much better). Also, often simulator software does not have very good in-game VR menus, though Project Cars is not bad.

I presently have Logitech Thrustmaster T500RS for the wheel and pedal setup with a non-motion racing seat platform, which are really good budget level components, or at least they were at the time I bought them years ago. These work extremely well in VR, setting it up such that the seat and such matches the in-game seat. I also have a big fan attached to the gas pedal for that open-cockpit feeling, which works surprisingly well for adding a greater sense of realism.

I am now researching what to do for a motion rig, as well as replacing the wheels and pedals with more "pro" level stuff. I want something that will give the most realistic car experience possible, works well with VR, and is popular enough to have good support...

One motion platform supplier that looks worthy is:

Another that is interesting, though I know nothing about: Yaw VR - Motion Simulator

For the next racing wheel and such, I am looking at Fanatec

I am interested to follow this thread for more ideas... I figure a really nice setup can be put together for the cost of just a few McLaren track days.
 

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I’ve experimented with a few motion setups for sim racing. My conclusion is that they don’t add a lot in terms of realism/€. Unless you go for very costly setups (think new 600LT levels).

Yaw motion maybe being the only exception. But none of this stuff is plug and play and you likely need some good support to make it run properly. Downside is: you loose basic rigidity of your setup, unless (again) you pay big bucks. Having realistic pedal force on your brake pedal, but every time you push it with 90kg the seat bends backwards, is a bit misding the point, right?
 
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