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Discussion Starter #1
Very impressive.
Pretty amazing achievement for McLaren.

My Frame of Reference:
Current cars: 2012 AMG E63 TT, 2012 GT-R, 2011 Mercedes SLS, 2009 Scuderia, 2011 458.
Recent other cars: 2010 Jaguar XFR, 2007 Porsche GT3, 2010 Porsche Turbo, 2009 Lambo Gallardo Spider, 2010 Audi R8 V10, 2009 Aston Martin DB9, 2010 ZR1

I like the McLaren. Quite unique. Neat technology insertion.

I also think that almost everything that had been written about the car (both positive and negative) is absolutely accurate. It just depends on the perspective of, and the prior experiences of the writer/driver.

Here is what I see as the positives:
Exceptionally well put together. Great paint job and body work. Great detail and finish on the interior.
Feels solid/durable - has an almost Germanic feel to it.
Great engine - feels very strong. Pulls more G Force in each gear than any of my other cars - ties with the GT-R.
One of the fastest cars on the planet.
Great ride in "normal" mode.
Seems to handle very well. Good steering feel and feedback - but to be fair, in winter conditions it has been hard to discern any subtle advantages that this car undoubtedly has over other comparable cars.
Amazing traction in cold weather for a 2 wheel drive car.
Looks very good in person. Has a clean but exotic look. Very planted looking.
Easy and pleasant to drive.

What I don't like so much:
Doors look cool, but make getting in and out a challenge. (Surprisingly more difficult than the SLS).
Interior is pretty plain/dull in the black motif. After seeing the early pictures, I chose red accents to liven it up and am very glad I did that.
The turbo is very strong and torquey, but definitely not nearly as sharp/responsive as the better naturally aspirated engines. The theoretical/advertised low fuel consumption is a myth, if the car is driven with equal briskness as the naturally aspirated engines (which is how I would hope most of us would drive a car like this). If driven like a family car, probably gets closer to the theoretical mileage.
The pre-cog function is useful on down-shifts as it prepares the transmission to move in a direction that it is not expecting, and in fact I think this transmission executes the downshifts as well or better than any other I have driven. On the upshifts, the two-step (pre-cog) process slows things down unnecessarily, and makes the transmission less responsive than the best current twin-clutch transmissions.
I opted for the sport exhaust, and that is the one option I regret - it makes lots of noise - but it is not good noise. Lots of droning in the Sport or Track modes.

OK, now I think I'll go clean the snow off it, and go practice some more pre-cogs!
 

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Think that is the induction noise you are complaining about in Sport and Track. My sport exhaust has no droning in any mode or at any engine speed. Actually I don't think the Active modes have any influence on the characteristics of the exhaust, just the induction.

Also, not sure why you think Pre-cog slows down your up shifts? They feel just as instantaneous as the downshifts, to me, if not even faster. Perhaps you can explain? Thanks.
 

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Have to agree with 6e on the pre-cog,it really is seamless when you get into the rythm.As for fuel consumption,im running at an average of 19.1 mpg after 4000 miles,almost identical to my modded 997tt,however there has been alot of full blown use in that,but i do live in the country so the car isnt stuck in traffic much,but i know on an N/A car it would be much less.As for long distance i averaged 28.1mpg at an average of 75 mph,which as you know means some of your speeds would have to be considerably higher to average that,so i was quite impressed with that.
As a matter of interest what method are you using it get in?
After trying several different ways i find (on a rhd) putting my leftleg in the footwell while holding the door handle and sliding down while ducking my head to miss the door window(not trying to tell people how to suck eggs)but many people sit on the sill and this just takes time and is just plain akward.But maybe i find this easy because im not tall and of average build:)
Oh and i like your diverse collection so i can see how it is easier for you to compare like for like
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Think that is the induction noise you are complaining about in Sport and Track. My sport exhaust has no droning in any mode or at any engine speed. Actually I don't think the Active modes have any influence on the characteristics of the exhaust, just the induction.

Also, not sure why you think Pre-cog slows down your up shifts? They feel just as instantaneous as the downshifts, to me, if not even faster. Perhaps you can explain? Thanks.
WRT the shift speed, if you are accustomed to something like a Porsche PDK or Merceded SLS, the shits speed feels pretty quick. However, if one has become accustomed to to the newer GT-R (which is a daily driver for me), or the 458, on which I have over 7000km, you'll immediatley become sensitized to the (admittedly very short) pause from starting to move your right fingers, till the job is complete. As an example, on the 458, just for fun (or to show off to passengers), you can shift from 1-2-3-4 before even getting accross a 4 normal lane intersection while accelerating pretty briskly.

And yes, I am hoping that the droning is from the piped in system, as I plan to experiment with plugging or disabling it as some point.
 

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Have to agree with 6e on the pre-cog,it really is seamless when you get into the rythm.As for fuel consumption,im running at an average of 19.1 mpg after 4000 miles,almost identical to my modded 997tt,however there has been alot of full blown use in that,but i do live in the country so the car isnt stuck in traffic much,but i know on an N/A car it would be much less.As for long distance i averaged 28.1mpg at an average of 75 mph,which as you know means some of your speeds would have to be considerably higher to average that,so i was quite impressed with that.
As a matter of interest what method are you using it get in?
After trying several different ways i find (on a rhd) putting my leftleg in the footwell while holding the door handle and sliding down while ducking my head to miss the door window(not trying to tell people how to suck eggs)but many people sit on the sill and this just takes time and is just plain akward.But maybe i find this easy because im not tall and of average build:)
Oh and i like your diverse collection so i can see how it is easier for you to compare like for like
On fuel consumption, I agree that driven at steady cruising speeds, or like a mature adult, it is/can be quite good. With this type of car, however, I seldom take it anywhere that involves steady cruising for any period of time- I tend to find every opportunity to accelerate, turn and decelerate quickly that I can, and then do it all over again an again! Under those circumstances, ie. when using all of the 500-600 hp, I have found that every one of the cars I have had, whether supercharged, turbo or normally aspirated, get in the range of 20-25 liters/100km, or 12-14 MPG.
Interestingly, at the track, they all get 7-9 mpg.

As to ingress/egress, I have tried various methods, and the way that works best for me (mediun size - 60 year old guy), is to drop my ass backwards into the seat, then rotate both legs in - that way I do not bang into the door every other time. Not a really big deal - definitely easily done - my point was that given the "everyday supercar" designation, scissor doors are not really the natural choice. I do like the "sense of occasion" they provide however, which I think frankly is far more important for a supercar experience than how easy/friendly it is to drive .
 

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Interesting to note how many people (me included) who don’t like the artificial induction noise.

Me thinks McLaren got it right, out of the box and Mr Harry Metcaffe and co. (motor journalists to everyone else) don’t live in the real world.

I am seriously considering having this feature disabled and think that McLaren should offer it as a no cost option and not saddle the dealers with the cost of rectifying their knee jerk reaction to some unjustified press.
 

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On fuel consumption, I agree that driven at steady cruising speeds, or like a mature adult, it is/can be quite good. With this type of car, however, I seldom take it anywhere that involves steady cruising for any period of time- I tend to find every opportunity to accelerate, turn and decelerate quickly that I can, and then do it all over again an again! Under those circumstances, ie. when using all of the 500-600 hp, I have found that every one of the cars I have had, whether supercharged, turbo or normally aspirated, get in the range of 20-25 liters/100km, or 12-14 MPG.
Interestingly, at the track, they all get 7-9 mpg.

As to ingress/egress, I have tried various methods, and the way that works best for me (mediun size - 60 year old guy), is to drop my ass backwards into the seat, then rotate both legs in - that way I do not bang into the door every other time. Not a really big deal - definitely easily done - my point was that given the "everyday supercar" designation, scissor doors are not really the natural choice. I do like the "sense of occasion" they provide however, which I think frankly is far more important for a supercar experience than how easy/friendly it is to drive .
take your point,but over the period i have driven ive averaged 19.1 mpg ,but that has included many times down to 7mpg on the road,so i would think out of the 4k i have done 3k would be mostly be hard driving so i still think it does better than most 600bhp cars although not by much i grant you
 

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So, I just finished a little run on a free German Motorway. Contrary to a track,going constantly at speeds mostly well over 200km/h. I am still grinning, amazing experience. When I drove, I got the sense that this car just wants to go, go, go... even after 250 km/h you still have this sense of forward movement. When I needed to break, the car was amazingly stable and solid. It truly is the best car I ever had, and I do own some neat cars...

When in normal mode, one can have easy discussions even at over 200 km/h, and you have a smooth ride. Similar feeling in my quick limo (Audi S8, which is built for rides like this). This is great and useful, as I am not always in play mode but want to get quickly from A to B.
Of course, what made me grin was in Sports Handling and Track Powertrain setting. Gears slamming in, great accelerating sound. Yet comfy ride... OUT OF THIS WORLD...

A couple of observations, I wonder what others think:

a) Fuel Consumption & Gauge: Rode the car at 210km/h AVERAGE speed for about a 100km stretch. Half empty tank got into "you must fill up now". But when I filled it up, I only got 55l of fuel in to fill it up. I think the display gets it wrong. The minute thy system showed to go get fuel, I had no remaining range shown to me, which is odd But given the very different fuel consumptions, a remaining range gauge is useless in my point of view. If a software upgrade can be made, I would do a "remaining liter/gallons" gauge, as I certainly know that this car uses 25 to 30 l / 100km if driven hard, and only when cruising at below 140km/h the car uses much less fuel. Such gauge would also be useful for track use!

b) Doors: I know, after my several knee surgeries, I cannot bend my knees well, usually no-one notices. I guess with these doors, I look very old getting in and out, I can live with this. Yet I also have to slam them doors down as if there were no tomorrow to get them closed alright. So not only do I look old by getting into the car, I also look stupid for usually having three tries to get the doors closed. Hope this will easen a bit...

c) Gear Box: When cruising in normal mode, it feels at times as if the car goes to sleep. When you then need a bit more power (perhaps just one gear downwards or just some more torque to accelerate a BIT not a JUMP),you push down just a little on the gas-pedal, and nothing happens (mainly at 60 to 80km/h when in 7th gear). When you then push down a bit more all of a sudden you get a tiger jumping at you. Would be nice to have something in between in normal mode - for sport and track the response is instant and immediate, and somewhat as expected.

Also, when cruising at very low speed (10-30 km/h), it almost feels like the clutch is constantly at work, and at times you get this whacky behaviour (similar to the early lambos with automatic clutch). Makes you look like a very stupid driver... but its the car, not me...

The sound system needs a serious upgrade, in my point of view.

All in, still absolutely amazing.
What do others think?
 

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Cardan, I'm new to MP12 ownership but can relate to your comments , particularly the doors and gearbox. The gearbox software, I suspect, is a work in progress and like the other issues need feeding back to Woking ( Ron's World ). I do hope you are insisting your dealer communicates your comments to Mclaren .

Regarding the cars performance at speed I totally agree. Today my car reached 250 miles. It is eating fuel.
 

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Cardan,i never get more than 55 ltrs in the tank,even though its 75 ltrs and empty??? Im not sure how it calculates this as ive had an average of 28mpg on a run and it still tells me its empty even with 20 ltrs left,so we hope its work in progress.
If your having a problem with the door,just drop the window and it closes easy,other than that i close it gently till the last 6 inches and then a flick of the wrist does the rest,its just overcoming the pressure of the ram that helps
 

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I will have reached my 600 miles tomorrow and my biggest gripe with the car, aside from the stereo, are the doors.

In a car costing this much money and not a pared down special like an F1; F40, etc., it should not be an acquired art to open and close the (bloody!) doors.

Quite often I have to give up swiping and use the key to get in, very uncool and annoying and then there is the, will I, wont I, close the door first time from the inside - invariably not.

How many other cars have you driven, when opening and closing the doors was even a conscious operation?

Passengers never get it right and often go from too little, to, way too much.

How much weight would have been added to motorise closing the final 10mm of the doors?

Not much I’m sure, if McLaren did it.
 

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My suspicion is the 'bloody hard to close doors' need a re-engineered door seal, it will happen but the question for Mclaren is ' will it happen in my life time?'

It is too difficult and it should be easy.
 

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I think mclaren was too interested with being original so they came up with the pre cog, iPhone door swipe ect. But in reality a regular door handle hidden from view would have added max 5 pounds to the car and the pre cog is non sense, takes too much attention away from driving, imo the trans doesn't shift as good as my Gtr, and why didn't they have it rev match on down shifts? The sport exhaust sounds great when i am outside but inside the car its annoying in race mode and okay at best in sport mode, who cares if its not loud on the inside, not me. I think mclarens weight concern ended up making the car a bit small on the outside and too plain on the inside. It's still a very fun/fast car to drive, a better driver than 458 100%.....but for $300k? Only time will tell.
 

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Every other dct blips throttle for downshifts, adds to the excitement but according to mclaren it's pointless and does nothing for performance
 

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Every other dct blips throttle for downshifts, adds to the excitement but according to mclaren it's pointless and does nothing for performance
I suppose thats why its a Mclaren and not everyother car?As for the dcg with Pre-cog,it works fantastic if you can be bothered !,its truly seamless and adds to the involvment with the car.If you want a button or paddle that you can get on a games console stick to everyone else.IMO
 

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I suppose thats why its a Mclaren and not everyother car?As for the dcg with Pre-cog,it works fantastic if you can be bothered !,its truly seamless and adds to the involvment with the car.If you want a button or paddle that you can get on a games console stick to everyone else.IMO
+1 now that I've used Pre-Cog, I'd miss it in anything else. One of the best features, in my opinion. It certainly doesn't slow things down, as it is also on the Formula One racecars. You just have to practice it a few times to get the most out of it.
 

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+1 now that I've used Pre-Cog, I'd miss it in anything else. One of the best features, in my opinion. It certainly doesn't slow things down, as it is also on the Formula One racecars. You just have to practice it a few times to get the most out of it.

Silly question guys, how do you know pre-cog is faster? I have tried it, the paddle seemingly with no resistance to the first indent, and I can't tell it's faster! Being new to ownership maybe I need more miles.
 
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