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I'm hopeful subsequent reviews will show an improvement but who would have bought this car if McLaren sold it as more "engaging" than a 720S but 20% more expensive and no faster around a track? If they don't address this then that will be the perception for future LT releases.

As has been said above we now have a lot of choices and this will not fly. And unfortunately we can't try before we buy.
 

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Do you want lap times or do you want enjoyment?

These Supercars have got to the point where to compete in terms of lap times then you need meaningful amounts of downforce. It does tend to numb the car though. Merc BS has a lot more of it. (Double the 765?) Senna even more. From everything so far it seems that Mclaren have not chased that. It’s not a cheap price Senna. Why should it be? Go buy a Senna.

The 765 seems to be a thing all of it’s own designed to challenge and to thrill. Henry Catchpole loves it - when he was left a bit uninvolved by the 720. Chris Harris loves the 720 and said ‘if you want a faster car than this, you are a different man than me.’ so he won’t like the 765. Perfectly consistent.

At this level it’s personal preference. They are different things, the two cars. Which is an achievement in itself.

But it was noticeable how many of the experienced F1 drivers got out of their cars after the Turkish Grand Prix saying how much they enjoyed it. One of the slowest on record, with no grip. but challenging. And all about the driver. Downforce gets a bit dull after a bit.
 

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Christian Gebhardt, 21.08.2015: "We as testers believe in PR messages just as firmly as teenagers believe in Santa Claus. The 675LT, when it rolls onto our test scale with a full tank, shows that you can't give McLaren PR too much credit either. The new special model is not 100 kilos lighter than the last test car of the 650S Coupé, but only 31 kilos!"....."Above all, the 675LT could not keep its lateral dynamic promises during the first test drive on the Nürburgring".

As already mentioned, the McLaren products are simply too close together. McLaren is challenged to question its product strategy. E.g. a "normal" Porsche 911 is clearly different from a GT3/GT2 RS. However, a standard McLaren 720S (like the 650S back then) has to compete relentlessly with the sporty top products of its competitors and outperform them. How can there still be room within the McLaren product lines for an even (effectively measurable) sportier model? At the end McLaren also cooks only with water. In order to make a 720S measurably significantly faster, you need a Senna. McLaren positions its leading edge "standard products" far too high, so its own market is correspondingly narrow, the game with the expensively paid "racing cars for the road" with again "superior performance capabilities" can become a dangerous barrel burst in the case of McLaren.
 

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All the views placing less importance on laptimes etc are perfectly valid and if that is what the market wants, so be it but McLaren should then stop exploiting the LT heritage of a modified F1 road car beating all the dedicated race cars in advertising these new LT models. Their role was not to be "engaging" but win races.

And it's not just lap times that we are concerned about but the reports of some of its handling characteristics from some reviewers. As I've said before lets wait for more reviews but they are starting on the back foot.

In positioning the 765 I suspect McLaren felt wedged between the excellent 720 and the Senna. It was difficult to place something in between and they may have missed the mark for fear of making it too close to or better than the Senna.
 
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Christian Gebhardt, 21.08.2015: "We as testers believe in PR messages just as firmly as teenagers believe in Santa Claus. The 675LT, when it rolls onto our test scale with a full tank, shows that you can't give McLaren PR too much credit either. The new special model is not 100 kilos lighter than the last test car of the 650S Coupé, but only 31 kilos!"....."Above all, the 675LT could not keep its lateral dynamic promises during the first test drive on the Nürburgring".

As already mentioned, the McLaren products are simply too close together. McLaren is challenged to question its product strategy. E.g. a "normal" Porsche 911 is clearly different from a GT3/GT2 RS. However, a standard McLaren 720S (like the 650S back then) has to compete relentlessly with the sporty top products of its competitors and outperform them. How can there still be room within the McLaren product lines for an even (effectively measurable) sportier model? At the end McLaren also cooks only with water. In order to make a 720S measurably significantly faster, you need a Senna. McLaren positions its leading edge "standard products" far too high, so its own market is correspondingly narrow, the game with the expensively paid "racing cars for the road" with again "superior performance capabilities" can become a dangerous barrel burst in the case of McLaren.
Yeah the first 675 tested producing the comments above was only 31kg lighter but then they later supplied a 675 which was 80+kg lighter which really blew them away.
I suspect this will happen with the 765, the one they tested was 1405kg and maybe not set up perfectly but we know Yan at Motortech weighed his at 1337.5kg so no doubt Mclaren will give them a lighter better set up car next year to put the record straight..... it does beg the question why not get it right first time, surely they must have known that the 765 was a heavier optioned one ?
 

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No one should be surprised as it seems Mclaren has periodically messed up on their launch press cars throughout the years... 12c, 675LT, and now the 765LT. I’m not sure why but they just can’t do them as well as Ferrari on that regard.
 

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They dont have nearly the budget Ferrari does. Also, I still believe that we will see some new results that will be stellar.
 

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Christian Gebhardt, 21.08.2015: "We as testers believe in PR messages just as firmly as teenagers believe in Santa Claus. The 675LT, when it rolls onto our test scale with a full tank, shows that you can't give McLaren PR too much credit either. The new special model is not 100 kilos lighter than the last test car of the 650S Coupé, but only 31 kilos!"....."Above all, the 675LT could not keep its lateral dynamic promises during the first test drive on the Nürburgring".

As already mentioned, the McLaren products are simply too close together. McLaren is challenged to question its product strategy. E.g. a "normal" Porsche 911 is clearly different from a GT3/GT2 RS. However, a standard McLaren 720S (like the 650S back then) has to compete relentlessly with the sporty top products of its competitors and outperform them. How can there still be room within the McLaren product lines for an even (effectively measurable) sportier model? At the end McLaren also cooks only with water. In order to make a 720S measurably significantly faster, you need a Senna. McLaren positions its leading edge "standard products" far too high, so its own market is correspondingly narrow, the game with the expensively paid "racing cars for the road" with again "superior performance capabilities" can become a dangerous barrel burst in the case of McLaren.
Sounds like history repeating itself. Let us hope they come to like the 765LT just as much as they did the 675LT!
 

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I guess I don't understand that either. Buying a 765 hp supercar to enjoy on the street at 70 mph. If you want ultimate feel, Ariel and BAC are waving hello.

I am not the only one concerned by the latest information. And there are many who believe segment superiority (through superior engineering) is the key reason to support McLaren.

If there are issues with McLaren engineering benchmarking and projected performance targets, that speaks even deeper into the brand as a whole.
You keep mentioning the BAC mono and Ariel atom etc, as a better financial play and performers.

It's clear that the money is causing you angst. No offense, but this clearly doesn't seem like the car for you.

I am sure most who are purchasing this car can also get the BAC etc, I know I can, but they do not play into my decision at all. For a true track play, buy a dedicated race car used. Faster, safer, and more fun.

What I find amusing is that some of us are also buying the Lamborghini STO, and I have yet to hear anyone start barking about track times and that is has the same engine as the EVO, not much weight savings etc. It seems the buyers of the STO are just happy that it looks amazing and they applied their GT3 ethos.
 

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I have to say the pandemic is having extraordinary effects on mental health. This thread is proof. It is hard to believe that one test lap is somehow setting the worth or performance of this car. There are so many variables and to be honest, McLaren has occasionally needed to make adjustments to early cars. My 12C was one of the first spiders in the US had a number of "Fixes" to get the car to the standard. I bought my 650S year 2 and it was bulletproof. The 570S was a year 3 car and aside from the usual IRIS joy, it was perfect for 2 years. Any number of very small issues could lead to a slightly off lap including the driver. I for one will not be judging this car until there is a real sample to judge it by.
 

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You keep mentioning the BAC mono and Ariel atom etc, as a better financial play and performers.

It's clear that the money is causing you angst. No offense, but this clearly doesn't seem like the car for you.

I am sure most who are purchasing this car can also get the BAC etc, I know I can, but they do not play into my decision at all. For a true track play, buy a dedicated race car used. Faster, safer, and more fun.

What I find amusing is that some of us are also buying the Lamborghini STO, and I have yet to hear anyone start barking about track times and that is has the same engine as the EVO, not much weight savings etc. It seems the buyers of the STO are just happy that it looks amazing and they applied their GT3 ethos.
I am among the people buying both. I could not be more excited for each of the cars. It’s interesting how stark the contrast is among the respective enthusiasts. On one hand, the STO has overtly disappointing metics: only 95lbs lighter than the AWD Performante, LESS torque, and features a rather pedestrian 0-124mph time of 9.0 seconds. And yet, the reception has been resounding. The car is legit sold out. Massive wait lists. Everyone loves it, heck even the Ferrari guys are lining up for them. Meanwhile, the 765LT is what most people wanted the 720S to be. I little more aggressive looking, sounding, and driving. It will no doubt feature a sub-7.0 second 0-124mph time. The car is astonishing. It’s a supercar embarrassment of riches. It’s cup runneth over, and yet look at some of the mixed opinions, and overblown angst about a singular lap time (which will prove to be an outlier). The McLaren crowd sure is hard to please.

Setting all that aside, I have never needed a car to be universally loved in order for me to love it. If I did, I would never have ordered my 812 and waited almost 2 years to receive it.
 

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You keep mentioning the BAC mono and Ariel atom etc, as a better financial play and performers.

It's clear that the money is causing you angst. No offense, but this clearly doesn't seem like the car for you.

I am sure most who are purchasing this car can also get the BAC etc, I know I can, but they do not play into my decision at all. For a true track play, buy a dedicated race car used. Faster, safer, and more fun.

What I find amusing is that some of us are also buying the Lamborghini STO, and I have yet to hear anyone start barking about track times and that is has the same engine as the EVO, not much weight savings etc. It seems the buyers of the STO are just happy that it looks amazing and they applied their GT3 ethos.
I'm mentioning the BAC mono and Ariel atom as a better play for an involving driver's car, which to some people on here, is all that matters for the 765LT. Is that incorrect? Aren't both those cars far more engaging than any traditional supercar, on the road and on track?

It's not the money that causes me angst, it's McLaren's engineering direction. Seems like they have lost the plot ever since Kenny got involved. This is why people keep coming back to Porsche GT cars, there's no doubt that the cars are sorted. 675LT is the only car in McLaren's recent history to be clearly the segment leader in all respects.

I don't see Lamborghini test drivers mentioning anywhere that their STO might be close to as fast as their million dollar aero hypercar. That car was just announced to the public. The expectations are totally different. The engine sound alone is still worth the price of admission. As much as I begrudge Lamborghini, their cars have a history of making track records in this sub million dollar segment. With the dozen or so of Huracan variants, nobody knows what the pecking order really should be. I guess STO is supposed to be above Performante, but who knows, I don't think people are expecting it to be lapping anywhere near Senna laptimes. We don't know anything about those Bridgestones.
 

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I had an Ariel atom for 1 month. It is not comparable. I would prefer a Miata.

I had a Bac Mono in my garage for 1 year as my friend was convinced it was going to skyrocket. I drove that car a lot and on the track. It's a fun car.

Overpriced for what it is and what my friend found out is that no dealer wanted to buy it and pool of buyers is extremely small. The only way he could get rid of it was to trade at a eye-watering loss, which make Mclaren's depreciation look like PP nautilus resale values.

The BAC Mono is purely a journalists car so they can speak of the numbers. I have yet to see anyone of them actually buy it, like they do with F cars, P Cars etc.
 
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I'm confused(not the first time and maybe its my own ignorance)
Why are we comparing the Atom and mono to the 765? completely different weapons.
The 765 is so much more versatile where as the other two are linear purpose built
 
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They dont have nearly the budget Ferrari does. Also, I still believe that we will see some new results that will be stellar.
I dont think its an issue of budget. Its really just how well planned and detail oriented like you would in a Formula 1 racing environment. Im always surprised why they cant bring that type of F1 mentality to a press release of vehicles for journalist that will help set the tone for your cars in the eyes of consumers worldwide. Getting optimally spec cars in prime condition is similar to prepping an F1 car... And its not like they are in as a much of a time crunch like in a F1 race. A shame letting all that work to elevate the car's peformance only to have a let down first impression...
 

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The constant harping over that track time is beynd obsessive at this point.

a little reminder of the title of this thread.
"
765LT Road tests and track tests are up
"
In spite of this, you and many others who dont seem to care about track tests, journalist, car comparisons, you are still spending alot of time reading and commenting how pointless such tests are. I wonder why. I almost sense that there is a manic effort to make those who do care about such comparisons change are mind. Even to the point where we are being called obsessive and in some cases poor drivers not really needing a fast car. I really think its those people who are keeping this thread alive.
Everyone on the "performance comparison interested side" basically noded "dissappointing lets see if MacLaren can turn this around".
 

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Can't decide what is worse: The 765 being disappointing on that one track race or the car catching fire. Probably it catching fire while racing.
 
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