765LT - Nürburgring

gsxrian said:

Why have none of the testers hired a 'hot shoe', slapped some slicks on the 765LT and done a 'proper' 765LT Nürburgring time, in good conditions?

We could 'GoFundMe' the exercise

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eMcL said:

For fun again- 😀 Waiting to see Ricciardo in a Red Bull 2019!

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aorta said:

There's ALOT more to a great Ring lap than that. Weather/conditions, traffic, tires, set-up, driver, COST...These 'hero' laps don't just happen. It's takes EVERYTHING to set a ring record. Having said that, McLaren should have done it with the Senna, because I think it would be as quick as the AMG One 6:35 time...

A privateer group tried it with the ACR-E Viper years ago...it went 'OK' but they were hoping for more...

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TougeSpirit said:

The Senna is not as fast as the AMG One

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aorta said:

Maybe...But...So far the AMG One has not impressed. It’s 2 seconds a lap faster at Hockenheimring ring with a far superior tire (cup 2 R vs trofeo r) and a factory lap effort versus a magazine effort. Advantage Senna.

6:35 at the ring for the AMG One is NOT impressive for that far considering what it is. So yeah...with current data I’d say the Senna is damn close. Unless or until we get more data, I’ll continue with this opinion.

For me, the AMG One has been a massive disappointment. Expensive, hugely delayed and much slower than expected on track...unless they’re sandbagging.

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McLaren Senna (P15) vs Mercedes-Benz AMG GT Black Series - FastestLaps.com

Compare performance of Mercedes-Benz AMG GT Black Series and McLaren Senna (P15). Updated November 2022.

fastestlaps.com

TougeSpirit said:

Track was wet at the Ring. The car is capable of 6'30. And the Senna won't even make it on several sections of the Ring without severely bottoming in a flat out run.

As far as Hochenheimring goes, 2 seconds is massive and even with a hotshoe effort, I disagree with Mr. West in that a Senna had 2 seconds more to give. Senna is closer to AMG GT Black Series in track performance than to AMG One.

McLaren Senna (P15) vs Mercedes-Benz AMG GT Black Series - FastestLaps.com

Compare performance of Mercedes-Benz AMG GT Black Series and McLaren Senna (P15). Updated November 2022.

fastestlaps.com

It's not much slower on track than what I expected, they never stated exact targets and it's clear it is a much more road driveable car than Valkyrie.

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aorta said:

I know two guys (good drivers) who own both (GT Black/Senna) and they will tell you straight up that the Senna is FAR more capable on track than the Black Series...One of them has been on the Ring in both...

2 seconds is literally JUST THE TIRE. That’s how good the Cup 2R is compared to a Trofeo R, at least for 3 laps or so. Then you throw in a full factory effort!! It certainly doesn’t flatter the AMG One lap...

Example: Randy P got a 1:28.xx at Laguna with a full factory Dodge effort in the ACR-E...he got a 1:30.xx with his magazine test. Same exact car, same exact tires...You are kidding yourself if you don’t think a full factory effort with MUCH MUCH better tires isn’t worth 2 seconds...

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TougeSpirit said:

Tires are run what you brung. McLaren has screwed itself years and years with Trofeo R. I'm done with that argument. They had dozens of opportunities to change, even with 765LT. They refuse to. So you will never get a MPSC2R dedicated to a McLaren model.

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EMF Audio (McMedics) said:

McLaren has been screwing themselves with Pirelli on production cars year after year, regardless of application.

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alexceres said:

Can they even afford Michelins rates ? VW group and BMW pay a ton of money for those custom formulations.

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TougeSpirit said:

Full effort by Mclaren at Laguna Seca for DAYS with Randy -> 1'27 (yeah, that was a fixed car, but Jeff wasn't much faster either from my memory). That's 2 second faster than a 720S on corsa tires btw.

Tires are run what you brung. McLaren has screwed itself years and years with Trofeo R. I'm done with that argument. They had dozens of opportunities to change, even with 765LT. They refuse to. So you will never get a MPSC2R dedicated to a McLaren model.

Every single Senna test is filled with issues, numerous setup changes, etc and still can't get the car to work right. Typically understeer on midcorner mid to high speed corners, oversteer in slow speed corner exit.

Jeff is pretty impressed with the AMG GT-R. Think he would be equally pleased with the Black Series. AMG One is 6 seconds a lap faster than AMG Black Series. Jeff in the video with the Senna said Trofeo R's are 3 seconds a lap slower than at the beginning of a session. Seems like he considers Trofeo R and Cup2R's in the same boat.

"I think it has gotten to the point where having very fresh tires can impact quite a bit on those cars, but some compounds do not fall off as fast like Nankang AR-1's and Goodyear 3R's. The Trofeo R falls off very fast especially on the Senna. With all of the heat you generate on the tire I was 3 seconds difference in laptime from the beginning to the end of the session on the Trofeo R. It would also lose a couple seconds from first lap fresh to 5 sessions at the end of a day. So I think with the right tire we are still doing fine progressing, but these one lap wonder tires like the Cup2R Trofeo R are really just good for magazine test bragging rights."

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EMF Audio (McMedics) said:

Well, I can tell you Michelin was begged by Tesla to make 400k tires because they didn't want to do it. So will they get a special Michelin ever? No. Who's to say it's gotta be a special tire? Historically speaking people are taking off the shelf tires and out-performing "special" Pirelli's.

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pepinozaur said:

afaik mclaren did 6:55....

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