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750S, thoughts on the McLaren 720S replacement

130903 Views 2093 Replies 120 Participants Last post by  VGJ
Hey Guys... with all this Covid stuff and supply/manufacturing delays etc... i have to imagine the LT may be slightly delayed which could push out the 720 replacement as we still need to see the LT spider...

I am definitely skipping the LT because the thought of a 720 replacement being hybrid is going to be mad performance numbers... cant wait for the new tech!

Anyway, i need to eventually extend my warranty on my 2018 (end of this year i think) so probably going to extend for 2 years depending on the release of the 720 replacement....

are we thinking the 720 replacement deliveries will be in 2023? I am thinking it could even be closer to end of 2023 which would have me keep the 720s for another 3 years...! thats a record for me

Thoughts on: 1- extending warranty and 2- the delivery year for 720 replacement?
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@Bridster what's a wet cylinder liner?
Is your Google broken? :mad:

Alright, alright, I will play along! Wet cylinder liner is a liner that's in direct contact with the coolant. This means it basically acts as the sole structure for the wall of the cylinder and needs to be pretty big and heavy - and that's made worse by the fact that the cylinder liner will be made from cast iron. Really, though, I think the main point is that Mclaren have been using cylinder liners to begin with - which I would call an obsolete technology now. Many rivals have long switched to cylinder wall coatings (like Nikasil) where there is no liner and the aluminium wall itself gets coated instead.

As for cooling, having no liner helps with that too, because aluminium conducts heat much better than steel. A potential problem is how to design large enough cooling channels without weakening the wall of the cylinder too much - because aluminium is also structurally much weaker than steel - but this has generally not been a problem for the production car levels of Nm/L. Once you push the boost high enough, steel liners might become preferable - and that's what you often see on 1000hp+ builds - but for 200-250Nm/L it's not needed. I am sure the Mclaren engine will be pushed much further in the future without major changes.
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Aha! Very interesting. No way could I have got the extra snippets from Google! So if I understand what you're saying correctly, having a steel, cooled liner could potentially mean that the boost levels could be increased more than if it was an aluminium cylinder wall? This would make sense if they're going to use the same engine in the Super Artura.
Yeah, possibly.

Also, going back to my previous comment, after I wrote it I had done a bit more research and it appears that I might have been a bit too quick to call cast iron cylinder liners obsolete. I normally mostly look at NA engines (since that's what I am interested in) and iron cylinder liners indeed are obsolete there, but for turbocharged engines it seems that liners are still the norm. Ferrari is using them on their 3.9/4L V8 (and likely in their new V6 as well), Maserati is using them on their V6 and even Porsche is using them on the 3.75L F6 in the Turbo (although not in the turbocharged 3L F6 in the base/S/GTS Carrera). So actually it appears that Mclaren could be sort of ahead of the curve with their linerless engine. Although, again, they are only running 21.8PSI of boost for 195Nm/L, while the Ferrari is at 247Nm/L running at 29PSI. Can the Mclaren engine handle more boost without liners? Possibly. Or maybe they'll add liners for more powerful versions - it's not the hardest thing to do engineering wise. Either way I expect the engine to develop a lot more power in the future.
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The Aventador replacement sure is interesting, but I also feel that maybe the expectations placed on the car are a bit too great.

They are benchmarking the SF90 as far as the performance goes and a lot of the stuff on the car is new, including the engine, the gearbox and the electric system, so it should be pretty good. However, I seriously doubt they will be able to make it weigh less than the SVJ, even with a modest, 4-6kWh battery. The Aventador is a BIG, imposing car, but that also adds to the weight, and from the spy photos the Aventador replacement is equally as big. The CF monocoque is also carried over from the Aventador (with some updates). Maybe with an all CF body they could match the SVJ's weight (so about 1750kg) but I doubt they can do better than that. There is still the question of what the new NA V12 will look like, so maybe if it's a smaller, lighter engine there could be a small chance of the car being lighter, but again, I doubt it.

In any case, all this 9.33 1/4 mile business... That's irrelevant drag strip numbers that have never even been repeated since. Not sure why someone would even bother bringing those up. In the real world, the 765LT is a 9.9-10s car even with warmed up tires (although that doesn't really matter as rolling times are much more relevant anyway). If the Aventador replacement has better than SF90 performance as expected, it should easily beat the 765LT in the 1/4 and should be pretty close if not better in the roll. Although Lamborghini have been unspectacular performance wise in the last couple of years, it's worth remembering that when the Aventador came out in 2011 it was very competitive with the 12C both in the straight line and on the track, if not actually slightly better. There certainly is a chance that the new car could replicate that.
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At some point, doesn’t the limit of traction in every gear get exceeded by HP. Meaning the car could burn out all the waypast the quarter mile with traction being the limiting force, not HP? At the 2000hp level, I think we might be there, no? So really you cannot use the HP over some set amount over the entire quarter mile because say going over 1500hp with sticky normal tires means it would break traction all the way to say 160mph? At that point, brooks has nothing to test but tires.
That is the case, but we are still not that close to reaching that limit for the whole 1/4 mile with production cars. The 765LT, for example, is traction limited only in the first two gears (which is to like 80mph or something). Even something like the Koenigsegg One:1 with (supposedly) 1:1 power to weight ratio is traction limited only to about 120mph and it could probably trap in the 170s. The Rimac and all the upcoming EV hypercars with 2000hp also all weigh 2t+ so the power to weight ratio is not any better. And they have an AWD so the Nevera is only traction limited to about 100mph.
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Actually it’s quite substantial from what I understand. Around 150lbs. Going to an optical Ethernet, you could easily cut off 100lbs. I don’t know if Mclaren went optical btw.
Definitely not 150lb. The whole harness weighs only about 10-12kg and that includes power cables.
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I think that’s wrong. Do you have a citation. If you look up common car harnesses weight they range 100-150lbs.
I can't remember the source exactly but it was one of those "How Mclaren gets built" videos. Of course, that's Mclaren claiming that, so it might be optimistic, but it was specifically the harness weight for their car.
they simply won’t make significantly more than the original. Maybe a pinch. Maybe not.
How many they make will depend a lot on the price, I suspect. Since they pushed the Elva and Speedtail so hard, and considering their current financial situation, it would make very little sense to make significantly less cars than they could sell. If the car ends up being 2M+ as is the new hypercar standard, I could see them making only 400 or less - as it's not gonna be trivial to find that many buyers to begin with. If, however, the car ended being cheaper somehow, then I could see them making closer to 1000. The 2M+, ~400 car scenario is definitely the more likely one, though.
If the car is cool and great looking they can easily sell 500-750 but for that it also needs to be a monster on track and still a car that is street drivable for a weekend with some luggage without causing you massive back pain … if it’s just a 2 seater track toy or is seriously lacking track abilities it won’t be so highly performing in sales …
I don't know about easily. All the 2M+ cars are sold in much smaller numbers:

Utopia: 99
T.50: 100
T.33: 100
Speedtail: 106
Jesko: 125
Evija: 130 (not even sold out)
Nevera: 150
Valkyrie: 150+80
AMG One: 275

The only big exception is the Bugatti Chiron at 500, but that's over a period of 6 years, not all the cars being spoken for within a week of the reveal.

The Holy Trinity had much higher numbers (918: 918, P1: 375, LaFerrari: 499+200), but then the cars were only about 1M.

I mean, who knows, maybe with the name they have now they could sell 500+ if it was the right car, but based on how many other hypercars the other manufacturers sell at this price, I wouldn't think it would be a done deal.
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600 Daytona SP3 for 2mn plus, more like 2.5mn with taxes and some basic options. and Ferrari could have sold 1,000 of them. And ferrari probably has a stronger brand name and richer buyer base than all the others combined...
They had some trouble selling the SP1/2s, but yeah, Ferrari stand outside the general rule. They could probably sell a red, re-badged Trabant P601 for a few hundred thousand and still find at least 100 buyers who would get it just to have this one special, limited "Ferrari".

As for the SP3... such an interesting car I completely forgot it existed :sleep:...
the SP3 is what the LaF should have, a non-hybrid NA V12 LaFaperta, with the highest output of a road going V12 ferrari has ever produced.
The only thing I can recall is that it's the only object in the universe that gets heavier when you remove stuff from it. They took the LaFerrari, got rid of all the hybrid stuff and it now weighs more as a result. I am quite sure the car is of some interest to cosmologists - they just need to remove the rest of it and the first artificial black hole would be created!
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As with many things in my life, I'm out of my depth. I don't understand what the final drive is. I guess it's a gear that interacts with all the other 7 gears, and as such there is some multiplication effect that effects all the gears changing their output?

Also, am I understanding that correctly. First gear in the 720 is like 6th gear in teh Artura? That cant be can it?
The ratio for each gear is the number of rotations of the engine for one rotation of the output shaft - so in 1st gear that would be the engine rotating 3.982 times for one rotation of the output shaft. The final gear (which is almost always the differential) indeed further multiplies the torque. This time it's the number of rotations of the output shaft for one rotation of the wheels.

The Artura table shows the ratios already multiplied by the final drive, so the total multiplication from the engine to the wheels.
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750 is going to be great, but all I know is Mclaren better come out with the super series hybrid replacement soon. Lambo will have its V12 and V10 hybrids, Ferrari will have its V8 and V6 hybrids. And Mclaren is still going to be on the old 720 platform for the next 2-3 years? Just a wild thought, Mclarens super series hybrid replacement comes with the V10 from the Solus and they make it a hybrid. They already invested millions and millions of $$ into designing the V10 for the Solus. And to only make 25 of them? I think Mclaren is up to something 😎
The V10 is an off-the-shelf racing engine from Judd, though. They didn't invest any money into developing it. And either way you couldn't make it pass emissions, so there is no chance it's ever gonna end up in a road car. Sad to say.
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If Lambo can make a massive V12 pass emissions, I’m sure Mclaren could figure out a way to make the V10 pass emissions haha. Anyways it was just a fun thought. Since Judd already has the motor made, Mclaren could save money developing a whole brand new motor and just use that one and spend the money making it a hybrid. You get a V10 that revs to 10,000 RPM and has a hybrid set up on it. Everybody is happy 😎
Unfortunately that's not how it works. The Lambo V12, or the Corsworth V12s were designed to be emissions compliant from the start. Getting an LMP1 racing engine emission compliant after the fact would be so much work that you might as well develop a new engine from scratch. Also, service intervals on the Judd engine are 3000km. It would be very hard to get to even 30000km and almost certainly impossible to get 100kkm or something actually road worthy.
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@Bridster was the first to use “750S” back in March of ‘22.
Hah! No, no, I just repeated what SSO mentioned in one of his blog posts, so any credit - not that the name isn't rather obvious - should go to him!
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I actually prefer the front end looks-wise, but overall it's a minor detail. Nobody apart from Mclaren aficionados will even know the difference between this and the 720S/765LT.
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