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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone my M engineering tuned 720 keeps pulling timing anything over around 80% throttle. Has anyone else ever have this issue? Its not the fuel as I ran 100 octane and it still pulls timing on my 93 map. Does my tune need to be adjusted somewhat? Or can it be another issue?
 

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World’s fastest and quickest McLarens
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Shoot us a datalog and we're happy to help out!

[email protected]

It is not uncommon for some timing to be pulled however timing being pulled on a 93 octane file with 100 in the tank seems like it would deem a second look. Happy to help sort this out!

We do have knock safeties that have gone into ever McLaren calibration over the past year. If your file is older we will gladly send you an update. They are there to monitor for levels of knock that are unsafe. If -6* of timing or more are occurring in 3 or more cylinders the throttle will close, same will happen if any single cylinder sees-10 or more. The higher the octane of the map slot the less knock we allow before a safety kicks in. On MS109 files it is only -3* in 3 or more cylinders. We get this one a lot because guys will run the tanks down to the gaslight and only toss 5 gallons of MS109 in which doesn't raise the octane enough.

It is uncommon, but false knock can occur. Knock sensors are only microphones when it comes down to the nitty gritty. They listen for frequencies that knock is known to occur at. The main factor in the frequency is cylinder bore. It will also listen for higher harmonics than just the 1st. The ECU also knows at what time knock can be expected by knowing where each cylinder is in relation to the combustion cycle. Many advancements in knock control strategies over the last 20-30 years have made false knock very uncommon in modern engines. Loose bolts, heat shield rattles, exhaust leaks, etc... can coincidentally vibrate on these same harmonics but it is rare.

Kudos to you as well for looking at logs. We love when customers check out their own data and ask questions. We are the only McLaren tuning company that allows end users to log their calibrations because we want you to be able to scrutinize the data amongst yourself of with like minded folks to help remove this shroud of secrecy that has always plagued the ECU tuning landscape. We're always happy to help explain controls strategies and divulge tuning info within reason.

-Jon
 

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Hi everyone my M engineering tuned 720 keeps pulling timing anything over around 80% throttle. Has anyone else ever have this issue? Its not the fuel as I ran 100 octane and it still pulls timing on my 93 map. Does my tune need to be adjusted somewhat? Or can it be another issue?
Any update on this. I was hoping that my issues will be fixed.
 

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I've heard that tuners are seeing this with 102 Octane mapped cars in Germany. The fuel company Aral has neither confirmed nor denied that their fuel has somehow been altered.

So it's possible that the fuel might be the issue for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've heard that tuners are seeing this with 102 Octane mapped cars in Germany. The fuel company Aral has neither confirmed nor denied that their fuel has somehow been altered.

So it's possible that the fuel might be the issue for you.
fuel is not the issue. I do not live in Germany. I tried several fuels.
 

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nope. I had no timing pulled before car was tuned.
If you send a datalog with M-Tuner we are happy to look it over.

How were you monitoring ignition retard before M-Tuner?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you send a datalog with M-Tuner we are happy to look it over.

How were you monitoring ignition retard before M-Tuner?
I will send logs to you sometime this week. Before the tune I had no problem. Pulled all the way to redline no issues. Now it’s horrible and is slow anything over around 75% or so throttle. Car just falls flat on its face.
 

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I will send logs to you sometime this week. Before the tune I had no problem. Pulled all the way to redline no issues. Now it’s horrible and is slow anything over around 75% or so throttle. Car just falls flat on its face.
Maybe you are suffering from failing turbo inlets?
 

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I will send logs to you sometime this week. Before the tune I had no problem. Pulled all the way to redline no issues. Now it’s horrible and is slow anything over around 75% or so throttle. Car just falls flat on its face.
This sounds more like an engine safety than pulling timing. Although it could be an engine safety due to timing being pulled. I think we are talking about two separate items here. Pulling timing typically is something you monitor that gives you a knock retard in the form of ignition timing being removed.

What you are describing sounds more like an engine safety where the throttle is closing. Engine safeties are wrtten in custom code and compiled in with the OEM code and are calibrated to close the throttle if any unsafe conditions are recognized.

Our current list of engine safeties in each McLaren include the following:
  • Knock
  • Misfire
  • Overboost
  • Differential Fuel Pressure
  • Clutch Slip
  • Short Term Fuel Trim Limit
  • Lambda Limit

If any of the above are triggered it will do exactly what you are describing. A quick datalog will sort this out! You may not even need to drive the car. Just log it in your garage and send over the log. The datalog stores the most recent engine safety tripped as an enumeration of 0 - 11.

Font Number Screenshot Document Parallel


More info can be found here in the datalogging guide! More than happy to help you get to the bottom of this!

If you have 100 in the tank on the 93 map odds are it is one of the other safeties that is not knock. Fuel pumps and controllers are known to go on the fritz from time to time as well so it may be engine safety 3 or 4 for differential fuel pressure. Either way should be fairly easy to diagnose after we see a log!

Thanks!

- Jon
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This sounds more like an engine safety than pulling timing. Although it could be an engine safety due to timing being pulled. I think we are talking about two separate items here. Pulling timing typically is something you monitor that gives you a knock retard in the form of ignition timing being removed.

What you are describing sounds more like an engine safety where the throttle is closing. Engine safeties are wrtten in custom code and compiled in with the OEM code and are calibrated to close the throttle if any unsafe conditions are recognized.

Our current list of engine safeties in each McLaren include the following:
  • Knock
  • Misfire
  • Overboost
  • Differential Fuel Pressure
  • Clutch Slip
  • Short Term Fuel Trim Limit
  • Lambda Limit

If any of the above are triggered it will do exactly what you are describing. A quick datalog will sort this out! You may not even need to drive the car. Just log it in your garage and send over the log. The datalog stores the most recent engine safety tripped as an enumeration of 0 - 11.

View attachment 221949

More info can be found here in the datalogging guide! More than happy to help you get to the bottom of this!

If you have 100 in the tank on the 93 map odds are it is one of the other safeties that is not knock. Fuel pumps and controllers are known to go on the fritz from time to time as well so it may be engine safety 3 or 4 for differential fuel pressure. Either way should be fairly easy to diagnose after we see a log!

Thanks!

- Jon
Sounds good. I will get a log sent over to you hopefully by tomorrow morning as I will log it in my garage as weather has not been nice the last 2 days.
Thanks Again.
 

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Sounds good. I will get a log sent over to you hopefully by tomorrow morning as I will log it in my garage as weather has not been nice the last 2 days.
Thanks Again.
Sounds good! Happy to help.
 

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that did cross my mind. I have new inlets but have not found a shop to install them as of yet.
that did cross my mind. I have new inlets but have not found a shop to install them as of yet.
Where are you located? Maybe the forum et al could throw some suggestions....
 
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that did cross my mind. I have new inlets but have not found a shop to install them as of yet.
I travel the country doing that sort of thing. I can come to you and do it no matter where you are.
 
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Any ecu will pull timing based on the current operating perimeters on the engine tuned or not, based on temperatures. You will never hit commanded timing on a hot engine, forget about it.
 
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