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Maybe only a subjective feeling, but imo the brand critique there is a much smaller fraction of the overall forum compared to here... additionally the community seems to handle ppl with a toxic attitude better (by not supporting their view points) than done here where a lot of ppl feel that every new quality/depreciation issue thread is a new opportunity to write off their frustration, with things we sometimes have to read for the 20th plus time ... only subjective maybe bc I am only a fraction of the time on Fchat compared to here but its how I feel about both places in comparison ... It does however not mean that some of the other forum stuff going on there (especially the attitude of some posters) is ridiculous ...
This is fine and dandy how you feel about the place but there are no blacklists and no lawyers. That is just utter nonsense.
 

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This is fine and dandy how you feel about the place but there are no blacklists and no lawyers. That is just utter nonsense.
I recall a certain shoe incident very recently - yesterday the news was that Philip Plein (even I don't like that guy) was ordered to pay 200.000 USD to Ferrari for damaging their brand image/using the brand for own advertising ... which is of course non sense as they should than just sue every pro athlete and film star/influencer who posts pics of the cars online with other stuff they might profit from ...

Another person was black listed for issues with his LaF - LaF A allocation (bc obviously you don't qualify if you complain publicly about who gets the car even you are one of their biggest supporters and having your own museum collection) ...

third person (famous guy in the music business) was ordered by their lawyer to remove his custom wrapping from his cars bc its hurting "Brand Image" and also of course black listed ...

Should I go on ?
 

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Wait- you are talking about Ferrari. The conversation is about Ferrari Chat. The two have nothing to do with each other.
 

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Wait- you are talking about Ferrari. The conversation is about Ferrari Chat. The two have nothing to do with each other.
yes all the time ... I just made an example in regards to Fchat that ppl that express too much negative things about the brand there or at other places run a much higher risk than at McLaren that the company will at some point start to act against them (by blacklisting them or even use lawyers) ...

some of the stuff Ferrari did (three examples above) are stupid in my opinion - however I also find that at some point McLaren needs to act harder against certain persons that really only have an agenda damaging the brands reputation online by making up their BS stuff (luckily some of these guys have been banned from this forum but I still see them active in the respective McLaren groups on FB) ... its really annoying and sth. I don't see to that degree happening on Fchat or other Ferrari groups ...

In am by no means saying that ppl who have trouble with their cars should not express their problems online (if they think this helps) - but this needs to be done in constructive manner, while some guys especially in the McLaren community seem to abuse these Forums/groups for unleashing their anger issues to the public ...
 

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The first time I saw a 720S in person was Thanksgiving weekend of 2019. I was totally blown away! Seeing it in person really made me realize that the pics you see online and in magazines just can't capture its beauty and engineering excellence.
Reading what you put reminded me of my first encounter with the 720S, I was a die hard Porsche guy and was at the Frankfurt Motorshow to have a look at the new GT2RS I had no idea about Mclaren they were not remotely on my radar we walked past this amazing space ship thing and our mouths gaped, looking at this incredible sight :)




upload image
 

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Reading what you put reminded me of my first encounter with the 720S, I was a die hard Porsche guy and was at the Frankfurt Motorshow to have a look at the new GT2RS I had no idea about Mclaren they were not remotely on my radar we walked past this amazing space ship thing and our mouths gaped, looking at this incredible sight :)




upload image

yes the 720s made an epic impression on first release to many ... Exactly my feeling about the spaceship too ... Many ppl said it looked strange or bad at that time but till today I just think these eye sockets are a genius work of design and functionality art ... No other company ever did sth like that ... same with the hidden side intakes
 

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McLaren designs are being copied by ferrari and Porsche alike. Have cross shopped both brands including Lambo and ended up with the best car-720s. A fchat member before mclife and they were happy that I got a 720s. It felt like they were stuck with a F car instead of the McLaren. Nice people though.
 

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This is fine and dandy how you feel about the place but there are no blacklists and no lawyers. That is just utter nonsense.
Anyone using ferrari name, directly/indirectly for monetary purposes is compromised. There are a lot of people on the business side directly/indirectly covertly posting on car websites and keeping people on point or deflecting, etc.

People who try to use the Ferrari name/image/logo in any way will risk a lawsuit. Fchat is compromised.



There is simply no easier or more efficient way of protecting a brand than suing everyone and everything that's disturbing the cachet or even remotely trying to cash in on the Prancing Horse's massive brand strength.

That said, Ferrari's choice of going to litigation sometimes takes a turn for the truly unusual in some of these alleged copyright infringement cases. Some of you may remember Cameron Glickenhaus' gorgeous Pininfarina P4/5, which was a re-bodied Ferrari Enzo made without first consulting Ferrari and it almost didn't get to feature the Ferrari shield because of it.

Another weird example is electronic music producer Deadmau5, who got a cease and desist letter in 2014 over his Purrari, which was a Ferrari 458 Italia fitted with custom badges and a vinyl tribute to the Nyan Cat. Since the custom badges were an amusing Doppelganger take on the Prancing Horse and Ferrari logo, Maranello was definitely not pleased and saw fit to put an end to the mockery as soon as possible.

Last year, fashion designer Philipp Plein also got a cease and desist letter from Ferrari's lawyers, this time for a couple of Instagram posts that seemed to promote some of his gaudy sneaker designs using a similarly colored Ferrari 812 Superfast and a bunch of scantily-clad girls. The 812 Superfast was one of the four Ferraris he had owned until that point, by the way, so he was obviously frustrated about the letter, to say the least.

Ferrari is facing a court battle in Switzerland due to alleged copyright infringement over taking over a Facebook fan site. If the suit is successful, it could cost the company millions and harm its reputation on social media.


Sammy Wassem started the Facebook fan page for Ferrari when he was 15 and eventually grew it to over 500,000 followers. In 2009, the company congratulated him on the site's success, but said that "legal issues" forced it to take over the administration, according to Automotive News Europe. Wassem could still use the site, but managers had oversight.

Wassem asked Ferrari for financial compensation to keep working on the page but continued creating content on it for the next four years. Eventually, the company terminated his administration rights. In 2013 he and his father Olivier filed the lawsuit against the business alleging it owes payment over 5,500 hours of work and copyright infringement for taking over the page. They are asking for 10 million Swiss francs ($11.3 million).

Ferrari is counter-suing them for misusing the company's trademark, including allegedly advertising other merchandise on the page and using it to send invitations to Sammy's 18th birthday.
"The issue isn't with Facebook or with our fans but with those who try to use Ferrari's intellectual property to make money out of it," said Stefano Lai, a spokesman for Ferrari to Automotive News Europe.

The case highlights the difficult balance companies have to maintain with social media. Even if Ferrari is right, the fallout from lawsuit could be a loss of fans.
 
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I am in no way saying that Ferrari as a corporation doesn’t sue people. They do in their tactics are well documented. But that is limited to Ferrari Corporation from maranello.

The conversation was about Fchat suing people and blacklisting people for talking bad about Ferrari. The latter does not happen
 

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I am in no way saying that Ferrari as a corporation doesn’t sue people. They do in their tactics are well documented. But that is limited to Ferrari Corporation from maranello.

The conversation was about Fchat suing people and blacklisting people for talking bad about Ferrari. The latter does not happen
no no you got that wrong ... what I was saying is that ppl on Fchat and in any other public domain run that risk ... not the ppl who moderate the Forum ...

well you still forget that criticizing Ferrari or making their products look bad in public can relatively easily put you on a black list or even land you in trouble with their lawyers...
 
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I am in no way saying that Ferrari as a corporation doesn’t sue people. They do in their tactics are well documented. But that is limited to Ferrari Corporation from maranello.

The conversation was about Fchat suing people and blacklisting people for talking bad about Ferrari. The latter does not happen
I agree. The attempt to try and equate Fchat to Ferrari Corporate is disingenuous.
 

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Anyone who is using Ferrari name , logos, for commercial purposes runs the risk of lawsuits . That affects moderation and content that is being posted .

This is how Ferrari stops track videos/telemetey with their cars , it affects anyone who is using their name for any commercial type activity and the content they may put out .
 
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Tested 488 and 720s extensively when I purchased my 720s just over two years ago - was definitely the right choice
 

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Anyone who is using Ferrari name , logos, for commercial purposes runs the risk of lawsuits . That affects moderation and content that is being posted .

This is how Ferrari stops track videos/telemetey with their cars , it affects anyone who is using their name for any commercial type activity and the content they may put out .
Are you saying Ferrari does not allow track videos/telemetry from their own system to be posted to Youtube?
 

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Are you saying Ferrari does not allow track videos/telemetry from their own system to be posted to Youtube?
When Randy Pobst did the p1/918 test at Laguna Seca, they also had the laferrari there. Ferrari put a stop to the test and wouldn't sign off on the telemetry/lap time (this was an owner car and same guy who owned the p1 in the test). Motortrend went out of there way to mention this in the video.

Hypercar test that did 918/p1/huayra bc, carrera gt, pista were stopped by Ferrari from showing their telemetry/lap time.

Ferrari doesn't like anyone using their name/logos for any type of commercial purposes. They usually won't say anything but will use the lawsuit power to stop these types of things.
 

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Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance if the post is a bit long.

I am currently looking to get my first supercar and have narrowed it down to either a pre-owned 720s or 488.

I recently drove a 720s at a local McLaren dealership, but did not get a chance to drive a 488 at the local Ferrari dealership as most of the 488’s they had were on consignment and because they had just gotten a F8 Tributo demo for a few days. So with only a limited time I couldn’t refuse their offer to drive the F8.

The F8 is a fantastic car and I was told by the sales person at Ferrari that it is an improvement over the 488 but overall they are very similar and by driving a F8 I should have a very close ballpark idea of how the 488 should be.

With that said, I also got a chance to drive the 720s and it was explosive to say the least. I could speak to the differences in character and feel of each of the cars for days but for the sake of time, I will try and keep it brief.

Where I am, both the 720s and the 488 are in the similar price range and with each having their own pros and cons I am torn between which to go for.

The 720s is no doubt quicker and has better performance, but in my opinion the sound wasn’t as enthralling and I felt a bit of “turbo lag” at lower rpm’s, especially in higher gears. The F8, felt more naturally aspirated in terms of throttle response in my short drive (I presume the 488 is similar). I also liked the brake feel on the Ferrari compared to the McLaren, which felt very heavy and dead/lacked any feel.

To me both, the 488 looks great, but the 720s in the right colour combo simply looks astounding. The dihedral doors are also very special.

Overall interior on both to me seems fine each with their own style, an edge to the McLaren in my view as I like the full digital dash compared to the Ferrari’s centre rev counter flanked by two displays.

So in short, do you think it is worth getting a used 488 even though a used 720s is ahead in performance and for the same price if not cheaper?

For those of you that have had a 488, if you have any insights that would also be appreciated.

I know I am on a McLaren forum and I do feel a bit daft even asking these questions along with making any comparisons with another brand but I figure you all could shed some light in regards to what for me is a tough decision.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance if the post is a bit long.

I am currently looking to get my first supercar and have narrowed it down to either a pre-owned 720s or 488.

I recently drove a 720s at a local McLaren dealership, but did not get a chance to drive a 488 at the local Ferrari dealership as most of the 488’s they had were on consignment and because they had just gotten a F8 Tributo demo for a few days. So with only a limited time I couldn’t refuse their offer to drive the F8.

The F8 is a fantastic car and I was told by the sales person at Ferrari that it is an improvement over the 488 but overall they are very similar and by driving a F8 I should have a very close ballpark idea of how the 488 should be.

With that said, I also got a chance to drive the 720s and it was explosive to say the least. I could speak to the differences in character and feel of each of the cars for days but for the sake of time, I will try and keep it brief.

Where I am, both the 720s and the 488 are in the similar price range and with each having their own pros and cons I am torn between which to go for.

The 720s is no doubt quicker and has better performance, but in my opinion the sound wasn’t as enthralling and I felt a bit of “turbo lag” at lower rpm’s, especially in higher gears. The F8, felt more naturally aspirated in terms of throttle response in my short drive (I presume the 488 is similar). I also liked the brake feel on the Ferrari compared to the McLaren, which felt very heavy and dead/lacked any feel.

To me both, the 488 looks great, but the 720s in the right colour combo simply looks astounding. The dihedral doors are also very special.

Overall interior on both to me seems fine each with their own style, an edge to the McLaren in my view as I like the full digital dash compared to the Ferrari’s centre rev counter flanked by two displays.

So in short, do you think it is worth getting a used 488 even though a used 720s is ahead in performance and for the same price if not cheaper?

For those of you that have had a 488, if you have any insights that would also be appreciated.

I know I am on a McLaren forum and I do feel a bit daft even asking these questions along with making any comparisons with another brand but I figure you all could shed some light in regards to what for me is a tough decision.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance if the post is a bit long.

I am currently looking to get my first supercar and have narrowed it down to either a pre-owned 720s or 488.

I recently drove a 720s at a local McLaren dealership, but did not get a chance to drive a 488 at the local Ferrari dealership as most of the 488’s they had were on consignment and because they had just gotten a F8 Tributo demo for a few days. So with only a limited time I couldn’t refuse their offer to drive the F8.

The F8 is a fantastic car and I was told by the sales person at Ferrari that it is an improvement over the 488 but overall they are very similar and by driving a F8 I should have a very close ballpark idea of how the 488 should be.

With that said, I also got a chance to drive the 720s and it was explosive to say the least. I could speak to the differences in character and feel of each of the cars for days but for the sake of time, I will try and keep it brief.

Where I am, both the 720s and the 488 are in the similar price range and with each having their own pros and cons I am torn between which to go for.

The 720s is no doubt quicker and has better performance, but in my opinion the sound wasn’t as enthralling and I felt a bit of “turbo lag” at lower rpm’s, especially in higher gears. The F8, felt more naturally aspirated in terms of throttle response in my short drive (I presume the 488 is similar). I also liked the brake feel on the Ferrari compared to the McLaren, which felt very heavy and dead/lacked any feel.

To me both, the 488 looks great, but the 720s in the right colour combo simply looks astounding. The dihedral doors are also very special.

Overall interior on both to me seems fine each with their own style, an edge to the McLaren in my view as I like the full digital dash compared to the Ferrari’s centre rev counter flanked by two displays.

So in short, do you think it is worth getting a used 488 even though a used 720s is ahead in performance and for the same price if not cheaper?

For those of you that have had a 488, if you have any insights that would also be appreciated.

I know I am on a McLaren forum and I do feel a bit daft even asking these questions along with making any comparisons with another brand but I figure you all could shed some light in regards to what for me is a tough decision.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
It’s not even close, to me the 488 is a very boring car. If you would’ve said the Pista you’d have a better case but even the the 720S is better in some aspects.

The response is indeed quicker because the Ferrari engine has less turbo lag. The 720S brakes feel weird at first but are actually pretty good once you get used to them. Looks-wise I think the 488 looks very bland compared to the 720, but the Pista is one of the best looking cars made. Engine note is the same really, if you go with an aftermarket exhaust the 720S sounds better. You can see and access your engine with the 488 while in the 720 you get more room to place stuff + better visibility in the back (and overall really, the 720 visibility can’t be beaten). Speed wise it’s not even close, not even the Pista catches up. Keep in mind that even the Pista weighs 1520kg (advertised as 1380kg) while the 720 is 1420kg, think how much more the 488 would be.
Hello everyone,

I apologize in advance if the post is a bit long.

I am currently looking to get my first supercar and have narrowed it down to either a pre-owned 720s or 488.

I recently drove a 720s at a local McLaren dealership, but did not get a chance to drive a 488 at the local Ferrari dealership as most of the 488’s they had were on consignment and because they had just gotten a F8 Tributo demo for a few days. So with only a limited time I couldn’t refuse their offer to drive the F8.

The F8 is a fantastic car and I was told by the sales person at Ferrari that it is an improvement over the 488 but overall they are very similar and by driving a F8 I should have a very close ballpark idea of how the 488 should be.

With that said, I also got a chance to drive the 720s and it was explosive to say the least. I could speak to the differences in character and feel of each of the cars for days but for the sake of time, I will try and keep it brief.

Where I am, both the 720s and the 488 are in the similar price range and with each having their own pros and cons I am torn between which to go for.

The 720s is no doubt quicker and has better performance, but in my opinion the sound wasn’t as enthralling and I felt a bit of “turbo lag” at lower rpm’s, especially in higher gears. The F8, felt more naturally aspirated in terms of throttle response in my short drive (I presume the 488 is similar). I also liked the brake feel on the Ferrari compared to the McLaren, which felt very heavy and dead/lacked any feel.

To me both, the 488 looks great, but the 720s in the right colour combo simply looks astounding. The dihedral doors are also very special.

Overall interior on both to me seems fine each with their own style, an edge to the McLaren in my view as I like the full digital dash compared to the Ferrari’s centre rev counter flanked by two displays.

So in short, do you think it is worth getting a used 488 even though a used 720s is ahead in performance and for the same price if not cheaper?

For those of you that have had a 488, if you have any insights that would also be appreciated.

I know I am on a McLaren forum and I do feel a bit daft even asking these questions along with making any comparisons with another brand but I figure you all could shed some light in regards to what for me is a tough decision.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Razzy, shortly after the 720S was introduced, I compared it in back-to-back drives vs. the 488. The attached note captures my immediate thoughts at the time (which have not changed). FYI, I did not get the 488. Instead, I ended up with a '19 720S Performance Coupe and am very pleased with that decision. I noticed later in the thread, you, too, recently obtained a 720. Congratulations! Perhaps, this will provide a useful perspective for those still in the process of deciding between these two fine cars. Best, Dukester
 

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This pretty much sums it up. As a Pista and F12 owner with multiple F cars in the past I still believe the 720 is the best bang for the buck. Just find the best one you can vs. the cheapest. Also check service records.
I agree. I own an F12 and it is more aesthetically pleasing than my 720s. That said, if I had to get rid of one of the two, the F12 would go, as the 720s is clearly superior to drive. The F12 is far less precise, and far more tail happy (likely that honking V12 putting down a lot of torque to a light rear end). Its build quality, however, is superior to the 720s (after all, Ferrari has many more decades of experience than McLaren) and I've had far fewer problems with it, but take that with a grain of salt, as my sample size (2 random cars) is really small!
 

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I agree. I own an F12 and it is more aesthetically pleasing than my 720s. That said, if I had to get rid of one of the two, the F12 would go, as the 720s is clearly superior to drive. The F12 is far less precise, and far more tail happy (likely that honking V12 putting down a lot of torque to a light rear end). Its build quality, however, is superior to the 720s (after all, Ferrari has many more decades of experience than McLaren) and I've had far fewer problems with it, but take that with a grain of salt, as my sample size (2 random cars) is really small!
Yeah but I can fit 2 sets of clubs in the F12 which is why I have it. Cool car to take on golf and other trips.
 
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