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Discussion Starter #5
I was at the Radnor show over the weekend...talking with all the Mclaren folks...word from higher ups is that the 12C with get an "upgrade" in the spring of 2014...I'm NOT talking IRIS....would not get specific (but smiled when I suggested 650hp)....he was just at the factory two weeks ago..watching the first production P1's start to build...we will all see.
I had heard something along these lines also. I think we will learn more when we hear about the P13.

In relation to the article though, I'm of a very similar opinion to the gentlemen above. I just thought some may find it interesting.
 

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I find it funny that his selling point is that in standard form its arch rival and nemesis the 458 is identical in acceleration tests (where has he been in the last 2 years????) ,then posts times that are identical to what have already been done in a standard 12c !!! His PR department must have taken lessons from Mclarens own :D
 

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Can someone please translate:

"Charge cooling from the standard air-to-water heat exchangers is further enhanced by HPE’s heat exchanger upgrade whose cooling effect increases sequentially as boost levels rise."

lol.
 

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All of HPE's kits are based upon crank HP. So it's an 88 HP kit. Apparently the high flow cats are good for +/- 60 crank HP alone. Will larger intercoolers help? Sure. IMO $5k for high flow cats and +676 crank HP is good for me. Jacking with the ECU, intercoolers & boost for an additional 30 crank HP is not worth writing off your warranty and the additional ~$15k.

To HPE's credit they have became a leader in bolt-on performance kits. Sure they can make it as wild as you can afford but the bulk of their business is bolt on performance kits giving folks that 10-20% HP gain before modifications get expensive (motor builds, trans, rear ends, etc.). This is the low hanging fruit and also the most profitable fruit. HPE also gives you a warranty on systems that they install basically picking up what is voided (on factory warranty) by the modification. Since he has TT'd the 458, messing with the 12c is only natural.

HPE seems to be sending a steady stream of wild cars to Russia.... I'm not a HPE spokesman, nor do I have any HPE products or plan to buy any. I admire his business model, it works & is a money maker. The high end market in the US will most likely go to Underground, etc. However HPE has a name, their vehicles are listed in vehicle buyer's guides (aka: banks recognize them and loan the additional money over the base vehicle) & the HPE name increases resale values. Kudos to John, he deserves it. Me and many here are simply not his target clients.
 

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All of HPE's kits are based upon crank HP. So it's an 88 HP kit. Apparently the high flow cats are good for +/- 60 crank HP alone. Will larger intercoolers help? Sure. IMO $5k for high flow cats and +676 crank HP is good for me. Jacking with the ECU, intercoolers & boost for an additional 30 crank HP is not worth writing off your warranty and the additional ~$15k.

To HPE's credit they have became a leader in bolt-on performance kits. Sure they can make it as wild as you can afford but the bulk of their business is bolt on performance kits giving folks that 10-20% HP gain before modifications get expensive (motor builds, trans, rear ends, etc.). This is the low hanging fruit and also the most profitable fruit. HPE also gives you a warranty on systems that they install basically picking up what is voided (on factory warranty) by the modification. Since he has TT'd the 458, messing with the 12c is only natural.

HPE seems to be sending a steady stream of wild cars to Russia.... I'm not a HPE spokesman, nor do I have any HPE products or plan to buy any. I admire his business model, it works & is a money maker. The high end market in the US will most likely go to Underground, etc. However HPE has a name, their vehicles are listed in vehicle buyer's guides (aka: banks recognize them and loan the additional money over the base vehicle) & the HPE name increases resale values. Kudos to John, he deserves it. Me and many here are simply not his target clients.
If they are basing their numbers on crank HP, are they pulling the engine for a true engine dyno? In all their other "tunes" they use chasis dynos and calculate the predicted crank HP based on drivetrain losses.
 

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If they are basing their numbers on crank HP, are they pulling the engine for a true engine dyno? In all their other "tunes" they use chasis dynos and calculate the predicted crank HP based on drivetrain losses.
Its all a theoretical calculation - has been since the dawn of HPE. My FGT had the Hennessey 650 kit (pulley & SCT tune) - put down around 605 depending on dyno and weather. Same scenario with all the Viper kits I've been exposed to (other's cars on dyno day). I figure the rationale is that's the way the manufacturers rate the cars.... kind of tough to sell a +100HP kit to someone that only puts down 30-40 HP over the stock "advertised" numbers. It's more of an apples/apples representation.

I'm speculating on HPE's reasoning. The fact is the HP numbers are not the RWHP numbers - RWHP numbers in the standard 40-80 HP less range in line with standard 10% drive train loss.

Stock Gen 4 Viper - Stock advertised 600 HP - Dyno 545 = ~9% less.
HPE FGT 650 Kit - Advertised 650 HP - Dyno 605 = ~7% less

If I remember correctly HPE quantifies their HP numbers with something along the lines of "* With appropriate modifications" basically disclaiming that a 650 kit requires "optional" intake, exhaust, etc. to meet advertised numbers... I can't remember. HPE is doing nothing every vehicle manufacturer in the world's isn't doing. Just be aware of the reality before you buy any +HP kit that the +HP is usually (99 out of 100) listed as crank HP gains.
 

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Good info.

If they have provided significant improvements in engine output, they should be posting trap speeds before and after modifications to correlate with the HP they are seeing on their dynos.

Posting a post-modded trap of 136mph doesn't do much for me, as we've seen speeds at this level stock.
 

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no one has proven performance wise there is a 60HP pickup from cats/exhaust, just some blown up dyno numbers... no performance figures in my mind means bogus gains, not very hard to go out and test a car... 60-130, 1/4 mile, trap speeds, nada...

business model? no comment, do some searching around and see if you still approve...



All of HPE's kits are based upon crank HP. So it's an 88 HP kit. Apparently the high flow cats are good for +/- 60 crank HP alone. Will larger intercoolers help? Sure. IMO $5k for high flow cats and +676 crank HP is good for me. Jacking with the ECU, intercoolers & boost for an additional 30 crank HP is not worth writing off your warranty and the additional ~$15k.

To HPE's credit they have became a leader in bolt-on performance kits. Sure they can make it as wild as you can afford but the bulk of their business is bolt on performance kits giving folks that 10-20% HP gain before modifications get expensive (motor builds, trans, rear ends, etc.). This is the low hanging fruit and also the most profitable fruit. HPE also gives you a warranty on systems that they install basically picking up what is voided (on factory warranty) by the modification. Since he has TT'd the 458, messing with the 12c is only natural.

HPE seems to be sending a steady stream of wild cars to Russia.... I'm not a HPE spokesman, nor do I have any HPE products or plan to buy any. I admire his business model, it works & is a money maker. The high end market in the US will most likely go to Underground, etc. However HPE has a name, their vehicles are listed in vehicle buyer's guides (aka: banks recognize them and loan the additional money over the base vehicle) & the HPE name increases resale values. Kudos to John, he deserves it. Me and many here are simply not his target clients.
 

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no one has proven performance wise there is a 60HP pickup from cats/exhaust, just some blown up dyno numbers... no performance figures in my mind means bogus gains, not very hard to go out and test a car... 60-130, 1/4 mile, trap speeds, nada...

business model? no comment, do some searching around and see if you still approve...
I got my HP/TQ numbers backwards.

For high flow cats only - not cat/exhaust combo (those numbers are higher).
From FabSpeed's page: Improves power +28HP/29 ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels (+33.6HP/34.8 ft-lbs. of torque to the crank).
Straight from AWE's website: An impressive +46hp and +61tq at the crank.

I have been in the Viper community approaching a decade - I'm very familiar with the "bad" concerning HPE. The company makes money year after year, over 20 of them.
 

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how does making money justify anything? I've been in the Viper club for 13 years and am familiar as well, but I'm not from Texas, so no HPE cheerleading here.....





I got my HP/TQ numbers backwards.

I have been in the Viper community approaching a decade - I'm very familiar with the "bad" concerning HPE. The company makes money year after year, over 20 of them.
 

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Fair enough. Not a TX thing. I was able to visit the HPE facility a few times and you can tell the difference between now where IMO John is more of the face of the company and previously when he screwed so many. It's clearly a big corporate type of business now, not a privately owned speed shop. FWIW I have no present or future plans to buy any HPE products or services.
 
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