McLaren Life banner
281 - 300 of 351 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
I was offered an early SF90 allocation and passed. The concept of an electrified Ferrari just didn’t resonate with me (still doesn’t). Who would have guessed that they‘d be transacting for 7 figures….
Same here. I ended up shifting my deposit to an F8 Spider after seeing the SF90 in person. It left me underwhelmed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Same here but I doubt they get those asking prices. Too many of them available and nothing special about them. Most if not all of these cars are on consignment, owners who may have never wanted the cars in the first place hoping to make some money.
3 SF90s sold for over $950k at the local dealer by me. I've been offered big $$ for my 2022 GTS that is being delivered today. Market is out of control. The GTS isn't numbered either.

I have a 765lt coupe that I paid $100k over msrp for and I paid $200k over msrp for my Pista Spider. Both had under 200 miles on them. I have a 765lt spider coming and I think it will track the Pista Spider values in the near term, but who knows....

I may lose when the inevitable correction comes in the market, but doubt I will over 5-10 years. In reality it doesn't matter because I have no plans to sell any of them any time soon, if ever. They are among the last of a dying breed of automobiles.

Faster doesn't mean better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
3 SF90s sold for over $950k at the local dealer by me. I've been offered big $$ for my 2022 GTS that is being delivered today. Market is out of control. The GTS isn't numbered either.

I have a 765lt coupe that I paid $100k over msrp for and I paid $200k over msrp for my Pista Spider. Both had under 200 miles on them. I have a 765lt spider coming and I think it will track the Pista Spider values in the near term but who knows....

I may lose when the inevitable correction comes in the market but doubt I will over 5-10 years. Jn reality it doesn't matter because I have no plans to sell any of them any time soon if ever. They are among the last of a dying breed of automobiles.

Faster doesn't mean better.
Hearing of people paying $950k for an SF90 is causing me to lose faith in humanity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
If that makes you lose faith in humanity, then what does a Ford Dealer asking $120k for a $62k MSRP Bronco make you feel? Nearly double MSRP. LOL. The world is mad right now.
I suspect the people paying that much to be the first on the block wouldn’t notice an extra $60k missing from their bank accounts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #290 ·
If that makes you lose faith in humanity, then what does a Ford Dealer asking $120k for a $62k MSRP Bronco make you feel? Nearly double MSRP. LOL. The world is mad right now.
Got a buddy who runs a Ford dealership here in Albuquerque, NM. He is currently selling Gen 3 Raptors and Bronco's for $40k over MSRP. He said he wouldn't mark them up so high but no matter how much ADM he puts on the vehicles, people are buying them like crazy. So he will continue to have ADM on Raptors, Bronco's, and Tremors for the foreseeable future. Its just simple supply and demand. He had a meeting with Ford corporate and they told him to expect delays/chip shortages/factory shutdowns for another 2 years at the minimum. Have another buddy who owns a Porsche dealer here in Albuquerque, and he is charging $50-75k ADM on new GT3's (depending on relationship with the dealer). Porsche only gave him three GT3 allocations in the past six months, and there was a waiting list of 30+ people begging to pay $75k over for an allocation. There is just too much demand for these special cars, and not enough allocations, therefore economics 101 comes into play.

1. Worldwide shortage on parts/cars in general
2. Inflation skyrocketing through the roof, and is going to continue that way for the foreseeable future
3. No labor force to make the parts/cars since apparently nobody wants to work anymore
4. People are grabbing up every ICE vehicle they can before they all become hybrid/electric, especially the rare vehicles that are the last of their kind like your 765's, SVJ's, STO's, GT3's, etc. News flash, the majority of the world doesn't want hybrid/electric and wants good old fashion dinosaur burning ICE vehicles.
5. People are also driving a lot more, not as many people traveling by plane, boat, train. Therefore those people need to buy cars.

There are many other factors that are contributing to the prices going up. Normal cars like your Honda's and Acura's and Kia's will settle down. But one thing is certain, high vehicle prices on rare ICE vehicles are here to stay, most likely continue to rise, and aren't going anywhere for a long time if not forever.
 

·
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
8,950 Posts
If that makes you lose faith in humanity, then what does a Ford Dealer asking $120k for a $62k MSRP Bronco make you feel? Nearly double MSRP. LOL. The world is mad right now.
I bought a Honda Ridgeline recently (just to get around the ranch, drives like a nice car btw). I paid ONLY list. People keep telling me how lucky I am. Apparently since I bought, they are going over sticker. I was looking to buy a little Toyota 86 to have something light. They want $5k over sticker. It's a $30k car. Will probably push me to just get a Miata instead. I also want to get a raptor, but they are going for 30k over an 80k sticker. A lot of people are getting standard F150s and just getting the suspension updates etc to "make their own raptor", way cheaper.

Luckily I dont need any of these, so I can afford to wait (refuse to pay over list). I feel bad for folks that do need them and are forced to pay over sticker.
 

·
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
8,950 Posts
I suspect the people paying that much to be the first on the block wouldn’t notice an extra $60k missing from their bank accounts.
It makes it harder for those that would notice though. I guess with a Ferrari or even a raptor, few "need" it, but for some of those other cars, like the bronco, they are just kind of regular cars people might want to buy.
 
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
3. No labor force to make the parts/cars since apparently nobody wants to work anymore
4. People are grabbing up every ICE vehicle they can before they all become hybrid/electric, especially the rare vehicles that are the last of their kind like your 765's, SVJ's, STO's, GT3's, etc. News flash, the majority of the world doesn't want hybrid/electric and wants good old fashion dinosaur burning ICE vehicles.
5. People are also driving a lot more, not as many people traveling by plane, boat, train. Therefore those people need to buy cars.
People think they're worth more than they are and refuse to work for less. Not sure how they're living with the cost of everything going up, but I suspect when shutdowns prevented them from doing their crap job they found other ways of making money and stuck to that because it's less effort for the same money.

The cars your listing aren't the global market, they're a very small percentage. The majority of the world wants better fuel efficiency and a mode of transportation they can afford. The minority wants dinosaur guzzling environment destroyers, and they're paying for them if they have the means.

I've flown about 85k miles domestic in the last 10 months and I assure you, there are no shortages of people flying. The people flying still need those cars, because people fly as a result of driving was a poor option or not possible, not because it was an alternative. People that primarily travel by boat or train aren't using those because of a lack of car need, it's a lack of car want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
Got a buddy who runs a Ford dealership here in Albuquerque, NM. He is currently selling Gen 3 Raptors and Bronco's for $40k over MSRP. He said he wouldn't mark them up so high but no matter how much ADM he puts on the vehicles, people are buying them like crazy. So he will continue to have ADM on Raptors, Bronco's, and Tremors for the foreseeable future. Its just simple supply and demand. He had a meeting with Ford corporate and they told him to expect delays/chip shortages/factory shutdowns for another 2 years at the minimum. Have another buddy who owns a Porsche dealer here in Albuquerque, and he is charging $50-75k ADM on new GT3's (depending on relationship with the dealer). Porsche only gave him three GT3 allocations in the past six months, and there was a waiting list of 30+ people begging to pay $75k over for an allocation. There is just too much demand for these special cars, and not enough allocations, therefore economics 101 comes into play.

1. Worldwide shortage on parts/cars in general
2. Inflation skyrocketing through the roof, and is going to continue that way for the foreseeable future
3. No labor force to make the parts/cars since apparently nobody wants to work anymore
4. People are grabbing up every ICE vehicle they can before they all become hybrid/electric, especially the rare vehicles that are the last of their kind like your 765's, SVJ's, STO's, GT3's, etc. News flash, the majority of the world doesn't want hybrid/electric and wants good old fashion dinosaur burning ICE vehicles.
5. People are also driving a lot more, not as many people traveling by plane, boat, train. Therefore those people need to buy cars.

There are many other factors that are contributing to the prices going up. Normal cars like your Honda's and Acura's and Kia's will settle down. But one thing is certain, high vehicle prices on rare ICE vehicles are here to stay, most likely continue to rise, and aren't going anywhere for a long time if not forever.
Tesla delivered 936,000 last year and 305,000 just in the last quarter. Don’t kid yourself, There is a monster demand for EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
It makes it harder for those that would notice though. I guess with a Ferrari or even a raptor, few "need" it, but for some of those other cars, like the bronco, they are just kind of regular cars people might want to buy.
Agree but I get the feeling people like to ‘flex’ by being one of the first to own hot or trendy models like the Bronco. Dealers will eventually run out of people willing to paying such stiff premiums to have that privilege.

What I find interesting is the craziness that surrounds things like G-Wagons and Patek Nautilus watches. Anyone could walk in and buy one 5 years ago but not anymore. Social media doing its thing I guess.
 

·
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
8,950 Posts
Agree but I get the feeling people like to ‘flex’ by being one of the first to own hot or trendy models like the Bronco. Dealers will eventually run out of people willing to paying such stiff premiums to have that privilege.

What I find interesting is the craziness that surrounds things like G-Wagons and Patek Nautilus watches. Anyone could walk in and buy one 5 years ago but not anymore. Social media doing its thing I guess.
Youre right, there is a bit of mixed "new model" demand there. With the Raptor, they took it off the market for about a year, so there is pent up demand there too. That's why I also pointed out the more 'regular' models I've been shopping too. It seems paying "only list" is a "deal" these days. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #297 ·
The majority of the world wants better fuel efficiency and a mode of transportation they can afford. The minority wants dinosaur guzzling environment destroyers, and they're paying for them if they have the means.
I am in the metal recycling industry, I know a thing or two about environmental subjects. As it sits right now, I can shred 400 cars in an 8 hour shift through my massive auto shredder. I can recover and recycling 92% of each vehicle. All of the steel, aluminum, copper, brass, you name it, it gets shredded and recycled. Electric cars are not the savior the world thinks they are going to be. I have first hand experience with all of this, lithium batteries are considered hazardous waste and 100% can't be recycled and go straight to a hazardous waste landfill, extremely nasty stuff. Lead acid batteries get recycled. Also electric cars are being made up of lots of plastic, can't reuse plastic like you can metal. It is projected that less than 50% of an electric car will be able to be recycled when shredded, the rest will go rot away in a landfill. Last but not least, how do people think electricity is made? All from wind farms and solar? Nope. 3/4 of all electricity is made from good old fashion coal and gas. And the more electric cars on the road, the more coal and gas are needed to power those golf carts haha. Plus our current electric grid could not possibly withstand a flood of electric cars, look at California, they literally have rolling blackouts like a 3rd world country on a yearly basis. Now throw a bunch of "environmentally friendly" electric vehicle in the mix, it will be a total disaster. Therefore all of my gas powered vehicle will be worth even more! haha
Tesla delivered 936,000 last year and 305,000 just in the last quarter. Don’t kid yourself, There is a monster demand for EVs.
4% of US car sales were EV in 2021. Out of that 4% of EV sales in 2021, Tesla accounted for 79% of them.
 

·
2012 MP4-12C
Joined
·
8,950 Posts
I am in the metal recycling industry, I know a thing or two about environmental subjects. As it sits right now, I can shred 400 cars in an 8 hour shift through my massive auto shredder. I can recover and recycling 92% of each vehicle. All of the steel, aluminum, copper, brass, you name it, it gets shredded and recycled. Electric cars are not the savior the world thinks they are going to be. I have first hand experience with all of this, lithium batteries are considered hazardous waste and 100% can't be recycled and go straight to a hazardous waste landfill, extremely nasty stuff. Lead acid batteries get recycled. Also electric cars are being made up of lots of plastic, can't reuse plastic like you can metal. It is projected that less than 50% of an electric car will be able to be recycled when shredded, the rest will go rot away in a landfill. Last but not least, how do people think electricity is made? All from wind farms and solar? Nope. 3/4 of all electricity is made from good old fashion coal and gas. And the more electric cars on the road, the more coal and gas are needed to power those golf carts haha. Plus our current electric grid could not possibly withstand a flood of electric cars, look at California, they literally have rolling blackouts like a 3rd world country on a yearly basis. Now throw a bunch of "environmentally friendly" electric vehicle in the mix, it will be a total disaster. Therefore all of my gas powered vehicle will be worth even more! haha

4% of US car sales were EV in 2021. Out of that 4% of EV sales in 2021, Tesla accounted for 79% of them.
Super interesting. Elon addressed part of this during his keynote presentation, and you seem to be backing what he said coming from another angle. He 'predicts' that at some point battery recycling will be able to reclaim the vast majority of the materials in batteries. Another way of looking at that is what you are reporting, that right now, none of that is actually happening at any meaningful scale.

Also, Elon's time tables are infamously late, and for recycling of batters, I don't recall if he even gave an estimate, so that may mean we are looking at well over 5 years at least before anything starts doing it, much less probably another 10 years after that to get it to any meaningful scale. So might be 15 years of just huge waste until then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,457 Posts
I am in the metal recycling industry, I know a thing or two about environmental subjects. As it sits right now, I can shred 400 cars in an 8 hour shift through my massive auto shredder. I can recover and recycling 92% of each vehicle. All of the steel, aluminum, copper, brass, you name it, it gets shredded and recycled. Electric cars are not the savior the world thinks they are going to be. I have first hand experience with all of this, lithium batteries are considered hazardous waste and 100% can't be recycled and go straight to a hazardous waste landfill, extremely nasty stuff. Lead acid batteries get recycled. Also electric cars are being made up of lots of plastic, can't reuse plastic like you can metal. It is projected that less than 50% of an electric car will be able to be recycled when shredded, the rest will go rot away in a landfill. Last but not least, how do people think electricity is made? All from wind farms and solar? Nope. 3/4 of all electricity is made from good old fashion coal and gas. And the more electric cars on the road, the more coal and gas are needed to power those golf carts haha. Plus our current electric grid could not possibly withstand a flood of electric cars, look at California, they literally have rolling blackouts like a 3rd world country on a yearly basis. Now throw a bunch of "environmentally friendly" electric vehicle in the mix, it will be a total disaster. Therefore all of my gas powered vehicle will be worth even more! haha

4% of US car sales were EV in 2021. Out of that 4% of EV sales in 2021, Tesla accounted for 79% of them.
I think the key here though, as always, is "as it sits right now". All energy-related technologies go through growing pains. Thus far in human history, where there has been a will, there has been a way.

I see no reason why battery packs from EVs would end up in the ground if they function. I mean, why would you throw out a Tesla pack just because it's only good for 50%. Might as well just plug into some sort of storage application.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter · #300 ·
I think the key here though, as always, is "as it sits right now". All energy-related technologies go through growing pains. Thus far in human history, where there has been a will, there has been a way.

I see no reason why battery packs from EVs would end up in the ground if they function. I mean, why would you throw out a Tesla pack just because it's only good for 50%. Might as well just plug into some sort of storage application.
Yes this is true, but as it sits right now, a lithium battery pack from any EV car is considered hazardous waste plain and simple. It cant be recycled in any way, and is horrible for the environment. It is very nasty business, way worse than anything from an ICE vehicle. I have customers asking me all the time to recycle their old lithium batteries and I have to turn them away. They get a rude awakening when they find out the only thing they can do with them is take them to a hazardous waste landfill and have to pay a small fortune to get rid of it. And then the batteries just sit in the landfill, not able to be reused or recycled in anyway.
 
281 - 300 of 351 Posts
Top