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I’d say you’re spot in it’s like driving a Porsche Carrera S, and than drive a GT3. The cars become more raw, and less weight with added power. Porsche is the king of having a ton of models, and Porsche took years to figure it out if you recall they had one model 911 back in the 90’s. They learned they had to make cars for many segments, and Mclaren has only been making road cars since 2012 being a small company.

I will always have a Porsche GT car in my garage, but my 675LT is that good will not sell it. Sometimes cars become great many years post productions. Remember Porsche made the GT3 RS 4.0 600 copies some sat on floors in 2011 187k MSRP, and you can’t tough one for less than 425k. Buy cars for fun, and not what it could be worth good chance you will be disappointed. I tell my Porsche buddies don’t compare Mclaren a 11 year car company to a 70 Porsche machine that took decades to get it right. My two fav cars of all time:
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Great minds think alike...

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Discussion Starter #24
I think all the McLaren products from the Sport and Super Series are in terms of driving feel and performance very close to each other. Even if the individual designations suggest big differences, they are not that big. Because let's be honest, each McLaren product is very extreme compared to competing products from other brands. The market has a hard time assessing the individual models and their differences inside all the McLaren products. And the fact that the LT unfortunately does not have the special position as desired (because there are e.g. also R or HS above it) does not make it any easier for the prospective customer to assess the situation.

McLaren product management has not done everything right in defining their individual products. I think the 675LT suffers from this, as do other models. Too many models with too little differentiation in too short a time.
I think all the McLaren products from the Sport and Super Series are in terms of driving feel and performance very close to each other. Even if the individual designations suggest big differences, they are not that big. Because let's be honest, each McLaren product is very extreme compared to competing products from other brands. The market has a hard time assessing the individual models and their differences inside all the McLaren products. And the fact that the LT unfortunately does not have the special position as desired (because there are e.g. also R or HS above it) does not make it any easier for the prospective customer to assess the situation.

McLaren product management has not done everything right in defining their individual products. I think the 675LT suffers from this, as do other models. Too many models with too little differentiation in too short a time.
thats very thoughtful. Thanks. I hadn’t thought of the car in those terms.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Love it ........love the 675lt lines on the coup. Speedster is 1468 of 1948, and LT is 99 of 500
Thanks guys.. I also have a 993 RS Komfort alongside the 675LT. Both great drivers cars.. both will stay - but the Porsche is worth almost 4 times the MSRP and rising, the 675 is below MSRP and falling. It’s not that i obsess aboyt values, but for modern cars I have less stickiness to cars and brands. I am looking at the falling price of 488 Pista and wondering whether to dabble, for example.
 

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I would have to disagree with this. There is a lot of difference in feel between regular models and the LT versions. Steering ratios, suspension, power delivery, mechanical grip, weight. In fact, so much so that to me after driving a 570S and a 600LT back to back felt like more of a change than a 488 and a Pista did. Then there is the difference between a super series and sport series in feel due to the active vs traditional suspension difference. The only thing that really feels the same is the almost exact seating position.


Edit add: I choose the 600LT over the 720S after driving them both exactly because of the feel difference, even though the 720S is much faster. If I would have just gone by youtube videos, I would have left the dealership with a slightly used/already depreciated, better specced 720S instead of the new 600LT (Paint, Ultralight Wheels, Senna seats and lift where the major options) that I knew would have a lot more depreciation and was slower in a straight line. I'm very happy with my choice.
I think once you decide on a McLaren and then move within the different products, you recognize the individual differences, they are certainly there, in that sense I agree with you.

But I dare say that the prices of used McLaren's (this also applies to the LT) are primarily defined by brand newcomers. So it seems important to me regarding the question of what is happening with the 675LT price right now, how does a "non McLaren customer" view the product situation? And with such a prospective customer it is much more difficult to convey real differences between all the models.

A newcomer to the brand will first notice that all McLaren models are two-seater mid-rear engine cars with a (more or less the same) V8 bi-turbo engine and carbon monocoque. Even a GT works exactly in this pattern at McLaren.
With Porsche there are already big differences in the choice of engines, turbo or naturally aspirated, then mid-engine or (mid)/rear engine, manual transmission or dual clutch, etc.. With Ferrari, the product differences are even bigger: V8 or V12, 2+2 seater or two seater, front-mid engine or mid-rear engine, etc.
From this point of view, if you summarize all its products under "two-seater mid-rear engine concept with V8 turbo drive", McLaren is almost a mass producer. ;)

For a McLaren owner the question arises immediately, why should I pay so much for an "old" P11 LT when I can buy a new LT for a little more money (e.g. 675LT vs. 600LT) which offers me exactly the same racetrack-oriented setup and is able to deliver at least the same performances? With such a prospect profile the only question that makes sense is the speculation on value increase. But this you can forget in the case of the 675LT with its 1000 "limited" vehicles, because this amount of produced cars is almost a third of all 650s produced.

Of course this is a thread for 675LT owners and they defend their choice. But in terms of value appreciation, it looks bad. Which does not mean that the car is bad! However, even if it's a superior car compared to the brand-different competition, in the end, the 675LT is simply a racetrack-oriented McLaren, as there are various others within all these McLaren products. By the way, this car is still my preferred McLaren. But my personal preference will unfortunately not drive up the price of the 675LT.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I think once you decide on a McLaren and then move within the different products, you recognize the individual differences, they are certainly there, in that sense I agree with you.

But I dare say that the prices of used McLaren's (this also applies to the LT) are primarily defined by brand newcomers. So it seems important to me regarding the question of what is happening with the 675LT price right now, how does a "non McLaren customer" view the product situation? And with such a prospective customer it is much more difficult to convey real differences between all the models.

A newcomer to the brand will first notice that all McLaren models are two-seater mid-rear engine cars with a (more or less the same) V8 bi-turbo engine and carbon monocoque. Even a GT works exactly in this pattern at McLaren.
With Porsche there are already big differences in the choice of engines, turbo or naturally aspirated, then mid-engine or (mid)/rear engine, manual transmission or dual clutch, etc.. With Ferrari, the product differences are even bigger: V8 or V12, 2+2 seater or two seater, front-mid engine or mid-rear engine, etc.
From this point of view, if you summarize all its products under "two-seater mid-rear engine concept with V8 turbo drive", McLaren is almost a mass producer. ;)

For a McLaren owner the question arises immediately, why should I pay so much for an "old" P11 LT when I can buy a new LT for a little more money (e.g. 675LT vs. 600LT) which offers me exactly the same racetrack-oriented setup and is able to deliver at least the same performances? With such a prospect profile the only question that makes sense is the speculation on value increase. But this you can forget in the case of the 675LT with its 1000 "limited" vehicles, because this amount of produced cars is almost a third of all 650s produced.

Of course this is a thread for 675LT owners and they defend their choice. But in terms of value appreciation, it looks bad. Which does not mean that the car is bad! However, even if it's a superior car compared to the brand-different competition, in the end, the 675LT is simply a racetrack-oriented McLaren, as there are various others within all these McLaren products. By the way, this car is still my preferred McLaren. But my personal preference will unfortunately not drive up the price of the 675LT.
Again, makes good sense. One big difference between brands has to be the dealers and factory. I am constantly blown away by the lack of dealer support and general indifference of the factory to customers. Despite having owned 6 different cars, all bought new or from dealers (4x570s,675,720), I have never been to a Mclaren event or connected to the factory in any way. The weakness of brand support is particularly surprising when you look at the rich history of the brand in race cars. It took buying one new 911 for me to be invited to track and race events with Porsche.. no such enthusiasm from Mclaren. I think whoever runs customer relations at Mclaren should go and find a new job... The support is better at Tesla..
 

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Again, makes good sense. One big difference between brands has to be the dealers and factory. I am constantly blown away by the lack of dealer support and general indifference of the factory to customers. Despite having owned 6 different cars, all bought new or from dealers (4x570s,675,720), I have never been to a Mclaren event or connected to the factory in any way. The weakness of brand support is particularly surprising when you look at the rich history of the brand in race cars. It took buying one new 911 for me to be invited to track and race events with Porsche.. no such enthusiasm from Mclaren. I think whoever runs customer relations at Mclaren should go and find a new job... The support is better at Tesla..
the problem here is basically that McLaren sells to the dealer and only starts to get into direct contact where there is an approval process ... you are mostly not the customer of Woking, while Porsche handles GT sales in house and also supports dealers with events ... Porsche system is better for the customer if you want these event things - however that is also the reason why a 991 Speedster (basically a 991 GT3 convertible which should be around 200-220k is 340k ... or why some rims for the Cayenne are 10k while the most expensive at McLaren is maybe 5k)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
the problem here is basically that McLaren sells to the dealer and only starts to get into direct contact where there is an approval process ... you are mostly not the customer of Woking, while Porsche handles GT sales in house and also supports dealers with events ... Porsche system is better for the customer if you want these event things - however that is also the reason why a 991 Speedster (basically a 991 GT3 convertible which should be around 200-220k is 340k ... or why some rims for the Cayenne are 10k while the most expensive at McLaren is maybe 5k)
Yup.. its not so much what i want/ need, its that the impression for newcomers that the factory or dealers care little for customers is borne out by the reality. I think at this price point/ running cost etc that customers should expect more from the brand.
 

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Yup.. its not so much what i want/ need, its that the impression for newcomers that the factory or dealers care little for customers is borne out by the reality. I think at this price point/ running cost etc that customers should expect more from the brand.
Depends on how much you value this stuff ... support for the cars (McLaren) is mainly a dealer thing, the social aspects of ownership are at McLaren also mostly dealer dependent - however its not that these things are free at Porsche, the whole thing there is priced in on many different lvls - e.g. you will see that identical parts of the Audi SQ7/SQ5 are far less than for the Cayenne or Macan ... Porsche Leasing will mostly use a worse rate than Audi, hourly rates for maintenance are higher etc ...)

and than there is of course also the thing that you need to buy lots of cars to get GT cars ... and where possible they also demand premiums above msrp etc.
 

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Again, makes good sense. One big difference between brands has to be the dealers and factory. I am constantly blown away by the lack of dealer support and general indifference of the factory to customers. Despite having owned 6 different cars, all bought new or from dealers (4x570s,675,720), I have never been to a Mclaren event or connected to the factory in any way. The weakness of brand support is particularly surprising when you look at the rich history of the brand in race cars. It took buying one new 911 for me to be invited to track and race events with Porsche.. no such enthusiasm from Mclaren. I think whoever runs customer relations at Mclaren should go and find a new job... The support is better at Tesla..
Have you been on the Factory Tour or the Track Day event that is added as part of the experience when buying a new car?

I have not purchased as many cars as you but have found the overall ownership experience far better than many of the highend brands that I have owned in the past.

In contrast I have been blown away by McLaren Marketing and Dealer support 👍
 

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Again, makes good sense. One big difference between brands has to be the dealers and factory. I am constantly blown away by the lack of dealer support and general indifference of the factory to customers. Despite having owned 6 different cars, all bought new or from dealers (4x570s,675,720), I have never been to a Mclaren event or connected to the factory in any way. The weakness of brand support is particularly surprising when you look at the rich history of the brand in race cars. It took buying one new 911 for me to be invited to track and race events with Porsche.. no such enthusiasm from Mclaren. I think whoever runs customer relations at Mclaren should go and find a new job... The support is better at Tesla..
An important point! IMO a car is finally just as good as the dealer with its post-sale service is, no matter which brand. I’m in the lucky situation to have an excellent McLaren dealer here in Switzerland. Apart from an outstanding post-sale service they organize many events by themselves, new car launches combined with test drives, track events, dinners, bbq’s etc. etc., this dealer behavior itself is already a reason to buy an additional McLaren.
 

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Thanks guys.. I also have a 993 RS Komfort alongside the 675LT. Both great drivers cars.. both will stay - but the Porsche is worth almost 4 times the MSRP and rising, the 675 is below MSRP and falling. It’s not that i obsess aboyt values, but for modern cars I have less stickiness to cars and brands. I am looking at the falling price of 488 Pista and wondering whether to dabble, for example.
Agree spot on, yes on the Pista. Porsche cars took a long time to get there and air cooled cars are hot for some time.
 

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Depends on how much you value this stuff ... support for the cars (McLaren) is mainly a dealer thing, the social aspects of ownership are at McLaren also mostly dealer dependent - however its not that these things are free at Porsche, the whole thing there is priced in on many different lvls - e.g. you will see that identical parts of the Audi SQ7/SQ5 are far less than for the Cayenne or Macan ... Porsche Leasing will mostly use a worse rate than Audi, hourly rates for maintenance are higher etc ...)

and than there is of course also the thing that you need to buy lots of cars to get GT cars ... and where possible they also demand premiums above msrp etc.
‘Yes, dealer support is very key and lucky we have a dealer here in Atlanta and they’re great. They sell several brands, and I tried Mclaren just because I know they’re good and I love the cars. Also do not believe all the Porsche stuff all my GT cars I get at MSRP, and I only purchased 2 non-GT cars. I’m a believer in have a relationship, and not only when you want a car/I get them tons of business from friends.
 

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‘Yes, dealer support is very key and lucky we have a dealer here in Atlanta and they’re great. They sell several brands, and I tried Mclaren just because I know they’re good and I love the cars. Also do not believe all the Porsche stuff all my GT cars I get at MSRP, and I only purchased 2 non-GT cars. I’m a believer in have a relationship, and not only when you want a car/I get them tons of business from friends.
Well maybe Atlanta is quiet liberal in giving away the GT cars my dealer did not allocate a 2rs to a guy that bought over 20 cars there before among them 997 GT2rs and GT3rs 4l ... he had to get is at a premium on the secondary market
 

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Well maybe Atlanta is quiet liberal in giving away the GT cars my dealer did not allocate a 2rs to a guy that bought over 20 cars there before among them 997 GT2rs and GT3rs 4l ... he had to get is at a premium on the secondary market
Well wouldn’t say liberal .........you still have to know the right people. Not all dealer do a list or take deposits. Well 20 cars is a lot and they must be small, and if not he’s getting screwed by the dealer. Now I will say I don’t get a car in the first 6 months of launch because I don’t care about being first, let the hype die down and I get a car with no non-sense. By the way 2RS were hard to get less than 1200 cars came to the US. Sorry enough Porsche talk:)
 

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Well wouldn’t say liberal .........you still have to know the right people. Not all dealer do a list or take deposits. Well 20 cars is a lot and they must be small, and if not he’s getting screwed by the dealer. Now I will say I don’t get a car in the first 6 months of launch because I don’t care about being first, let the hype die down and I get a car with no non-sense. By the way 2RS were hard to get less than 1200 cars came to the US. Sorry enough Porsche talk:)
no it’s actually a big dealer, they sell about 700 cars a year ... but it’s hard if you have 6 918 customers and 3-4 Race Team owners also on that List ... they only got 5-8 2rs as far as I remember
 

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no it’s actually a big dealer, they sell about 700 cars a year ... but it’s hard if you have 6 918 customers and 3-4 Race Team owners also on that List ... they only got 5-8 2rs as far as I remember
Yeah that makes sense they have to take all 918 owners first, and them VIP’s, and next is large volume buyers and then the guys that want to be on a list for the spill allocations. Historically GT cars were only top customers, and not the cars are so popular everyone wants one, and gets pissed when they can’t get one. Remember the 997 GT3RS 4.0 with only 600 made many sat on the lot with a MSRP of 187k, and now they’re 425k. Now GT cars many owners think they’re a 401k program and they can make a ton of cash, and paying crazy ADM’s and the dealers are licking they’re chops.

This is a case of public greed driving demand and I can drive a car for a year and sell it and make money/flip. I always trade my cars back to the dealer, and take what we agree on being fair when I can flip I don’t. Hate it for your friend as he sounds like a true enthusiast. Look at how many GT cars get sold with a full wrap of PPF, and ceramic coating on a street to track car. It will come to a end with the 992 GT car as Porsche will make as many as production allows and raise the prices. Speedster was the perfect example made the price 300k, and it killed the flippers ......a few went for 200k over but that ended rather quickly. This is what drives many Porsche owners over to Mclaren, but some come with the attitude I need to make money when I sell. Anyway happy Sunday.
 

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@Maverick787 is most likely correct. I think number wise, prices for 675LT will be going up.

I try not to sweat the prices too much and focus on putting miles on and enjoying the cars while I can. If you find a good 675LT and enjoy driving it, I’d say go for it. Often, if one find an amazing car like 675LT to be “missing something”, it’s a good signal to do some reflections. Of course, it’s fair and I respect those who don’t like the 675LT. Different perspectives enrich the world for the most part.
 
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