In his Aston, GT3 RS, 650S video didn't Chris Harris a) Say none of these cars would see which way a 675LT had gone and b) lap faster than both cars in the 650S on worn out road tyres?
There's 'keep pace' and there's '6 seconds slower' over a 70 second lap on a track like Silverstone international. No one well outside of CL is saying the gt3 or rs is faster than a 675 as it manifestly will not be. What the 675 will not be I am willing to bet is faster than a 997 cup with slicks.
I'd argue the mid engine car actually is trickier car at the limit when it starts to go as well despite being the more balanced car. Lower polar of moment of inertia and all is great until it actually starts to go then things start happening rather a lot quickly....
We'll have to agree to disagree then >Completely disagree about the at the limit thing.its still got the lower polar thing and engine out back goes quickly when it goes when you're actually trying, and not just trying to oversteer and having fun that way. Those ole Carrara at Palmer sport were utterly uncatchable.
notnsure what a cup car will do around the international circuit but yes I suspect it might be ahead of the 675. For sure around spa they are
Whilst the above view holds good on the likes on the 996, and 997, its not the same on the 991 with rws, both the GT3 and the RS drive very mid engine like, not to the same extent as say the GT4, but going that way.We'll have to agree to disagree then >
A front engine car has the bulk of the mass further away from the driver (think caterham) and therefore the driver has more time to attempt to feel what is happening to the car and can try to react to it earlier. the same in theory should apply to the rear engine car, just that obviously the rear engine car is the more difficult one to control given where the weight is vs a front engine car.
A mid engine car has the bulk of the weight concentrated in the middle so has lower polar moment and is more agile etc etc but when it goes things happen rather more quickly and the window of opportunity to correct things is smaller.
I suppose it might come down to whether ease of correction (911's are tricky obviously!) overrides the window of opportunity where that correction arises and that can depend fairly significantly on the setup/handling of each car.
you and I have different cars clearly...Whilst the above view holds good on the likes on the 996, and 997, its not the same on the 991 with rws, both the GT3 and the RS drive very mid engine like, not to the same extent as say the GT4, but going that way.
When the RS is set up its very easy to correct through steering angle input, I have never driven a road car that gives as much feed back., as such confidence to press on.
With regard to the 2 sec braking point, the "salient" point being that in the RS due to the grip and DF, you spend much less time on the brakes in a corner, in fact so much grip in some corners you don't even need to brake.....
Hope its dry next month.....
I take it you have had the front ride height checked? Also are you running the wing in max DF mode or even the middle setting? if so this will give the feeling that you are getting, unless you dial in a fair amount of front end Camber....you and I have different cars clearly...
it has a lot of mechanical grip at low speeds.. makes it a very nice car on road .. the majority of the feedback I find is the rear suspension telling you 'hang on a minute, we just need to get this mass under control... carry on... '.. probably the short suspension travel due to the size of the wheels isn't helping perhaps.. its not a horrible negative at all, but you can feel it happening..
things moving about out back to me is never a great indicator to push on.. .however it is also true tht with the stock setup it is actually quite hard, without being utterly ham fisted, to make it oversteer. Traction is as always pretty astonishing.
the aero claims are the thing tht gets me.. its supposed to produce quite a lot and I think there's close to zero at the front.. back end yes but front.. no not sure about their claims at all
and I dont' really ever want to get the back out apart from on track.. cos when it goes it will really go.. sorry isv..
Interesting the difference in perception. I think I am (or at least was) quite confident in the physics involved with respect to polar moment of cars and I don't think I found it too hard to play a fool the last time I was on track with a gen2 997 gt3. Certainly easier than a 458 with all ESC systems switched off.and I dont' really ever want to get the back out apart from on track.. cos when it goes it will really go....
we should try them back to back fro sure..I take it you have had the front ride height checked? Also are you running the wing in max DF mode or even the middle setting? if so this will give the feeling that you are getting, unless you dial in a fair amount of front end Camber....
The DF should be bias to 2/3rds to the rear, the front end DF is very dependent on right height. The front slats almost double the front end DF at speed. You should feel massive front end grip, into through and at the exit of the corner, look at the Video with the GT4, see how Steve comment's on front end grip. think CH also mentioned this
If you don't have the correct ride height at the front you will have feeling that the front end is not griping..
My friend had this problem with his car out of the box it looked like a speed boat at the front, just zero front end grip, he's a Cup Driver, won pro am 2, I know he's taken his GEO to the extreme of the standard settings, ie uses shims etc....I will enquire to how he's getting on.
If you are in UK, happy for you to try mine....
If you need to be on the brakes to get front end grip, that's not good, take it when you come of the front end just does not feel connected.....I have a print out of my settings will send over later, along with ride heights and Anti Roll bar settings....we should try them back to back fro sure..
am certain ride height makes a difference, but am relatively certain mine won't go any lower..
sadly not in the Uk..
it does have front axle grip, as long as its on the brakes, which is what it appears to me that they're talking about.. the only guy who's spoken about the lack of grip on power is randy pobst
Yes we need to dump the Porsche people into their own sub-forum.
Thats my car thats for sale there, if you're interested contact myself or Chad at McLaren philly and we can work something out.McLaren Phil. has a nice looking LeMans for sale, though at $363k, it is near LT money on one hand, and almost $150k more than a 'standard' used 650S coupe on the other hand. I love the look of them, but still seems really hard to justify for me.
I seem to have possibly narrowly missed the LT window, as I had 2 opportunities at MSRP about a month ago, now dealers all seem to be asking quite a bit over. I don't know if what they are asking is realistic, as no way to know what things are actually moving for. I suspect next few months will tell, once spring comes.
You will like this i think. Interesting article where Pobst pretty much echoes your comments on the RS understeering under power.Actually not fast corners per se. Ones which are opening and where you would ordinarily be hard on the power. Very understeery in this situations. I suspect abbey would be horrible as it's difficult enough in my race car to keep your foot in. Farm also, but the RS would be mighty into the hairpin as the brakes and the fat tyres in unison are immense.
Good find, thanks !You will like this i think. Interesting article where Pobst pretty much echoes your comments on the RS understeering under power.
He did mention it in the video they made too. I wonder if the car was a press car or customer car. Certainly seems more similar to my own. I do hope I will find a setup more suited to how I would like the car to drive so haven't given up yet !You will like this i think. Interesting article where Pobst pretty much echoes your comments on the RS understeering under power.