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Around Silverstone International? 5-6 seconds? You must be joking as I can't believe anyone actually seriously thinks that.
Well as I said, I can't speak from personal experience. What I do know however is that full fat 997 gt3 cup race cars will do a 1min 9 sec lap with a good peddler. Given the extra weight, lack of race set up, road tyres etc, etc the road version will be significantly slower (I accept that the 991 will be quicker than the 997). However, a 1min 12 sec lap is a fairly quick time even for a race car with decent P/w ratio. Hence my thoughts was simply that road gt3 would likely be a good couple of secs slower so say 1.14 & there's your 5 sec difference with the LT. Not scientific at all I know! :D I would be interested if you have any actual figures to share.
 

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Well as I said, I can't speak from personal experience. What I do know however is that full fat 997 gt3 cup race cars will do a 1min 9 sec lap with a good peddler. Given the extra weight, lack of race set up, road tyres etc, etc the road version will be significantly slower (I accept that the 991 will be quicker than the 997). However, a 1min 12 sec lap is a fairly quick time even for a race car with decent P/w ratio. Hence my thoughts was simply that road gt3 would likely be a good couple of secs slower so say 1.14 & there's your 5 sec difference with the LT. Not scientific at all I know! :D I would be interested if you have any actual figures to share.
Well in that case there is imo absolutely no way a 675 is capable of doing a 1:09 if that is the time of a decently driven 997 cup.

It is possible perhaps a 675 is 6 seconds quicker than a 991gt3 around Spa where there are a lot of places it can use it's extra power (and even then i'd have considerable doubt) but not around a track like silverstone international.
 

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Well in that case there is imo absolutely no way a 675 is capable of doing a 1:09 if that is the time of a decently driven 997 cup.

It is possible perhaps a 675 is 6 seconds quicker than a 991gt3 around Spa where there are a lot of places it can use it's extra power (and even then i'd have considerable doubt) but not around a track like silverstone international.
I was blown away when Bruno said that to me. However, it does seem entirely possible given that both he & Euan did a10.5 with a passenger & not on the best of tyres. I imagine some stats of both the gt3 & RS will emerge in due course.
 

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I was blown away when Bruno said that to me. However, it does seem entirely possible given that both he & Euan did a10.5 with a passenger & not on the best of tyres. I imagine some stats of both the gt3 & RS will emerge in due course.
Indeed. The Porsche (s) aren't close. They can't be. They don't have the fundamental chassis balance or power. So are heavily compromised. The hope that they could keep pace with the LT are just that. Hope.

They're great on road but on track approaching the limit they come up a little short. Maybe they have a small advantage on the brakes but I doubt even that these days.
 

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There's 'keep pace' and there's '6 seconds slower' over a 70 second lap on a track like Silverstone international. No one well outside of CL ;) is saying the gt3 or rs is faster than a 675 as it manifestly will not be. What the 675 will not be I am willing to bet is faster than a 997 cup with slicks.

I'd argue the mid engine car actually is trickier car at the limit when it starts to go as well despite being the more balanced car. Lower polar of moment of inertia and all is great until it actually starts to go then things start happening rather a lot quickly....
 

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Indeed. The Porsche (s) aren't close. They can't be. They don't have the fundamental chassis balance or power. So are heavily compromised. The hope that they could keep pace with the LT are just that. Hope.

They're great on road but on track approaching the limit they come up a little short. Maybe they have a small advantage on the brakes but I doubt even that these days.
Respectfully, I disagree.....They said that about the 918, to heavy, to little aero.....Lol.:)

Whist, yes its down on power, but through the bends in my experience genuinely think it will carry more speed into, through and out of the twisty bits...Proper LSD, RWS, etc, big advantage over an open diff....

Look forward to the 1st comparison times....

As for the brakes, the record in de acceleration from 300kph, for a road car was held by the 997GT3RS4.0, 270mtrs the 918 bettered this. 247.2mtrs The 991 GT3RS, is between the 2...at 258mtrs, when equipped with CCBDs
 

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There's 'keep pace' and there's '6 seconds slower' over a 70 second lap on a track like Silverstone international. No one well outside of CL ;) is saying the gt3 or rs is faster than a 675 as it manifestly will not be. What the 675 will not be I am willing to bet is faster than a 997 cup with slicks.

I'd argue the mid engine car actually is trickier car at the limit when it starts to go as well despite being the more balanced car. Lower polar of moment of inertia and all is great until it actually starts to go then things start happening rather a lot quickly....
RS carry's much much more speed round the corners than the 991GT3, also due to the way in which the brake booster on the RS (with CCCBDs) works along with the aero, in my hands I can brake about 2 secs later over the 991GT3, that's a big advantage going into corners.....

If its dry on the 6th, please come down....
 

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There's 'keep pace' and there's '6 seconds slower' over a 70 second lap on a track like Silverstone international. No one well outside of CL ;) is saying the gt3 or rs is faster than a 675 as it manifestly will not be. What the 675 will not be I am willing to bet is faster than a 997 cup with slicks.

I'd argue the mid engine car actually is trickier car at the limit when it starts to go as well despite being the more balanced car. Lower polar of moment of inertia and all is great until it actually starts to go then things start happening rather a lot quickly....
As I'm sure you'll appreciate (given the comments/points you've put forward) there's lots of variables which effect the lap times and therefore our conjecture. Track conditions & temps on the day obviously make a difference so really a back to back test is needed. Also although I chose a 1min 9sec lap for the 997 cup as a good representative time I do also know that on a qually lap it can & has achieved a low 8 so maybe with a driver as experienced as Bruno a mid to high 7 is possible. I'd also suggest that the cup car will be able to lap in the 9's for many consecquetive laps whereas the LT probably not so many. So I hear what saying in that comparison.
The road version though will be a long way behind. As Mikey has some experience of the the quicker RS version & is guessing a 1.12 he's probably close to the mark. The other variable therefore is whether Bruno was being a little too optimistic with his suggestion of a 1.9. All good fun though & time will answer our questions. Look forward to that then.

CL, have you not experienced the understeer that Mikey refers to or have you altered your set up so much now that it's dialled this out?
 

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The LT will humiliate the RS on pretty much every track other than the shortest and tightest Mickey Mouse tracks.
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I would say its the other way round, the RS needs long bends to hook up its aero. The RS one second behind the P1 time at Anglesey, was not down to aero, more down to rubber and the advantage of a LSD....RWS etc...

I take it you are aware that the 7.20 ring time was done on a damp track.......a more accurate dry time is 7.07....
 

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As I'm sure you'll appreciate (given the comments/points you've put forward) there's lots of variables which effect the lap times and therefore our conjecture. Track conditions & temps on the day obviously make a difference so really a back to back test is needed. Also although I chose a 1min 9sec lap for the 997 cup as a good representative time I do also know that on a qually lap it can & has achieved a low 8 so maybe with a driver as experienced as Bruno a mid to high 7 is possible. I'd also suggest that the cup car will be able to lap in the 9's for many consecquetive laps whereas the LT probably not so many. So I hear what saying in that comparison.
The road version though will be a long way behind. As Mikey has some experience of the the quicker RS version & is guessing a 1.12 he's probably close to the mark. The other variable therefore is whether Bruno was being a little too optimistic with his suggestion of a 1.9. All good fun though & time will answer our questions. Look forward to that then.

CL, have you not experienced the understeer that Mikey refers to or have you altered your set up so much now that it's dialled this out?
I have still kept within the factory settings, but at the limit without the use of shims.

I think I understand Mikes point, that when close to the limit of the exit the car will just "wash out." and understeer off the track. Yes I have dialled this out to a large extent, on the limit now I get a tiny bit of oversteer, that I am comfortable in correcting with slight steering angle input.....
 

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I would say its the other way round, the RS needs long bends to hook up its aero. The RS one second behind the P1 time at Anglesey, was not down to aero, more down to rubber and the advantage of a LSD....RWS etc...

I take it you are aware that the 7.20 ring time was done on a damp track.......a more accurate dry time is 7.07....
Yes sure..... LOL

I must admit I've never met somebody more religous to Porsche PR than you. Really.

For instance, when you claim that you can brake 2 seconds later in the RS than in a GT3, that would account for a difference in braking distance of more than 110 meters when travelling at a modest 125 mph. Seriously ? You can brake 110 meters later into a corner with the RS ? LOL

It's a good thing that you are so passionate about Porsche. No problem with that. But you will need to get used to the fact that the RS is not the top of the sportscar league anymore. The LT is way ahead, be it on road or track.



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Yes sure..... LOL

I must admit I've never met somebody more religous to Porsche <acronym title="Google Page Ranking">PR</acronym> than you. Really.

For instance, when you claim that you can brake 2 seconds later in the RS than in a GT3, that would account for a difference in braking distance of more than 110 meters when travelling at a modest 125 mph. Seriously ? You can brake 110 meters later into a corner with the RS ? LOL

It's a good thing that you are so passionate about Porsche. No problem with that. But you will need to get used to the fact that the RS is not the top of the sportscar league anymore. The LT is way ahead, be it on road or track.
I am well aware of just how big an advantage 2 secs is, down say the hanger St.....the RS has 300% more DF than the GT3, this along with a much bigger tyre footprint and the way the brake system, ie, brake booster works, give the RS a big advantage with regard to brake distances.....
Its not just the brake distance either but in the RS in my experience you spend less time on the brakes, as such carry more speed into the corner, round stow for example the RS will carry about another 20mph round the corner...over the GT3.

I do agree, that the LT on road is not just a faster car point to point than the RS, but also more fun to drive....
 

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I am well aware of just how big an advantage 2 secs is, down say the hanger St.....the RS has 300% more DF than the GT3, this along with a much bigger tyre footprint and the way the brake system, ie, brake booster works, give the RS a big advantage with regard to brake distances.....
Its not just the brake distance either but in the RS in my experience you spend less time on the brakes, as such carry more speed into the corner, round stow for example the RS will carry about another 20mph round the corner...over the GT3.
Your claims (20mph more trough corners, 2 full seconds later on the brakes) are so way off from reality, I honestly have no clue how to reply :confused:



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Your claims (20mph more trough corners, 2 full seconds later on the brakes) are so way off from reality, I honestly have no clue how to reply :confused:
I can only speak from my own experience, about 40 track days in 991GT3s. If tired to carry the same speed through some corners in the 991GT3 as I do in the RS, then the GT3 would just run off, through lack of grip, from what I recall through stow this is about 20mph....

With regard to the 2 secs point, you have the experience to know what I am on about, the time on the brake peddle through some corners in the RS is about 2 secs less in than in the GT3....
 

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I am well aware of just how big an advantage 2 secs is, down say the hanger St.....the RS has 300% more DF than the GT3, this along with a much bigger tyre footprint and the way the brake system, ie, brake booster works, give the RS a big advantage with regard to brake distances.....
Its not just the brake distance either but in the RS in my experience you spend less time on the brakes, as such carry more speed into the corner, round stow for example the RS will carry about another 20mph round the corner...over the GT3.

I do agree, that the LT on road is not just a faster car point to point than the RS, but also more fun to drive....
Mate, your perceptions of speed and time need a bit of recalibration >:). I'll hook up my vbox to your car if dry in silverstone next time and i guarantee you will agree braking 2 seconds later at hangar before stowe and 20mph is quite impossible. Well that is if you want to get through the corner and not end up in the gravel! ;)
 

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you will need to get used to the fact that the RS is not the top of the sportscar league anymore. The LT is way ahead, be it on road or track.
To be fair to Porsche, I don't think the RS, any RS was ever meant to be top of the sportscar league, and certainly not in terms of outright pace. They were (note past tense heh) very reliable track rats that could take an awful amount of beating and very quick for what they were but fundamentally never meant to be the fastest things out there I think.

Right now in terms of speed the RS doesn't even sit on top of the 911 league table given the 991 gen2 turbo is supposd to have done a 7:18 at the 'ring without cup tyres if i read that press release right.... :D
 
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