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but new 720 hybrid in 3-4 years will compete and half the cost :)
 

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Sounds a like a 918 Spider but with a aggressively tuned, twin-turbo V8, instead of the atmospheric V8 in the Porsche. The weight will make or break the car's performance. As I think @ChrisK1982 mentioned somewhere else, performance scales linear with respect to power but non-linear with respect to weight. McLaren found an ideal power/weight combination with the 720S, which Ferrari is trying to approach with the Pista and F8 without the benefit of the extremely light carbon fiber tub.

McLaren options generally are cheaper than than Ferrari... I'd figure ~20% beyond MSRP for a nicely spec'd car, so not far off from Senna MSRP if you exclude crazy expensive MSO fluff. This 'regular production' Ferrari will be competing in a pretty sparse niche, including the SV-J along with some pre-owned hypercars and probably the current Ford GT once they start hitting the resale market. While there is not a vast number of buyers for cars in the $750-1M range, it's Ferrari so as they say they'll make one fewer car than they have buyers. Still it may end up being sort of limited production based on paucity of customers.
 

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Sounds a like a 918 Spider but with a aggressively tuned, twin-turbo V8, instead of the atmospheric V8 in the Porsche. The weight will make or break the car's performance. As I think @ChrisK1982 mentioned somewhere else, performance scales linear with respect to power but non-linear with respect to weight. McLaren found an ideal power/weight combination with the 720S, which Ferrari is trying to approach with the Pista and F8 without the benefit of the extremely light carbon fiber tub.

McLaren options generally are cheaper than than Ferrari... I'd figure ~20% beyond MSRP for a nicely spec'd car, so not far off from Senna MSRP if you exclude crazy expensive MSO fluff. This 'regular production' Ferrari will be competing in a pretty sparse niche, including the SV-J along with some pre-owned hypercars and probably the current Ford GT once they start hitting the resale market. While there is not a vast number of buyers for cars in the $750-1M range, it's Ferrari so as they say they'll make one fewer car than they have buyers. Still it may end up being sort of limited production based on paucity of customers.
most scary thing about this car is if it follows the depreciation path of all big Ferrari models it will likely cost you 130-150k a year to own (losing about 10-14% from MSRP+options, as all big (V12) non LE Ferraris did over last 2 decades plus consumables and insurance)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
most scary thing about this car is if it follows the depreciation path of all big Ferrari models it will likely cost you 130-150k a year to own (losing about 10-14% from MSRP+options, as all big (V12) non LE Ferraris did over last 2 decades plus consumables and insurance)
McLarens lose far more than 14% per year.
 

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McLarens lose far more than 14% per year.
yes some maybe but they are a bit more than 1/3rd of the price of that car mostly. And btw that is also only really true for the MP4 - 650s 675LT 720s are much better already (would say 10-12% p.a. and bottoming at 50-55% currently which v12 F cars do not - they bottom at 25-30% on the long run as you can see on 550/575 prices)
 

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It's never going to be a standard production car at that price, more like a low numbers special along the lines of the laferrari I'd have thought. It is going to give the AM 003 a big problem imo, 2 more cylinders, lower price, much earlier arrival.
 

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It's never going to be a standard production car at that price, more like a low numbers special along the lines of the laferrari I'd have thought. It is going to give the AM 003 a big problem imo, 2 more cylinders, lower price, much earlier arrival.
Well according to Ferrarichat simple Joe can walk into a dealer and order one if he has the means not even requiring buying history ... but Porsche also said the GT2rs is a car everyone can order ... what they did not say is that the dealers would only get minimum quotas which in theory they could give to anyone but of course only gave to their best customers ...
 

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It's never going to be a standard production car at that price, more like a low numbers special along the lines of the laferrari I'd have thought. It is going to give the AM 003 a big problem imo, 2 more cylinders, lower price, much earlier arrival.
It’s not limited, and it’s cheaper than supposed here..
 

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It’s not limited, and it’s cheaper than supposed here..
Well even its just 600-750k its still way above what normal 720s/7XXLT/812sf/Aventador customers would spend - that's another market segment where no empirical knowledge or references for how the market will react on non LE cars exists as everything in that market , maybe beside the SLR and CGT, was limited (and those two did both not hit planed production numbers)
 

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The new Ferrari will depreciate massively if it's "unlimited" production and $800K+. The market for such cars is very, very small and the majority of cars in that range have been highly limited. There's little evidence of strong residuals at those levels. Look no further than Bugattis -- rare, takes a while to get, but are never sold out. They depreciate massively because there is a price at which people demand custom specs or huge discounts. People end up waiting for their own car rather than buying used.

Likewise, the F8 segment is going to see worse residuals too. There are tons of V8 mid-engine buyers for whom money is no object. They only get the $350K V8 because it was the only game in town for a mid-engine non-LE Ferrari. The guy with the LF still buys the new V8. However, why would he buy the new V8 and this new flagship?

The answer is likely that he won't. He gets the flagship and forgets the "low-end" model.
 

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It is going to give the AM 003 a big problem imo, 2 more cylinders, lower price, much earlier arrival.

If it has 1000bhp, is 1350kg or so, and has massive aero that would make up for its unlimited numbers vs the 500 AM-RB 003 cars, given the Ferrari's lower price.

Remember 003 also has full carbon structure and body, FlexFoil body morphing aero and fully active suspension too.

...but let's see. Personally I don't see Ferrari beating Adrian Newey.
 

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If it has 1000bhp, is 1350kg or so, and has massive aero that would make up for its unlimited numbers vs the 500 AM-RB 003 cars, given the Ferrari's lower price.

Remember 003 also has full carbon structure and body, FlexFoil body morphing aero and fully active suspension too.

...but let's see. Personally I don't see Ferrari beating Adrian Newey.
think you are too optimistic ... Fchat they talk about 1550-1650kg or so ... for the AMs they are not yet build ... don't get me wrong and I know you are going to get one, but at the moment all this stuff about the RB003 is still quiet theoretical. You maybe see the massive problems AMG is having with the ONE (going so far that some ppl who have a deposit on it think they will soon get a letter the whole thing is canceled) Statement by one prospective owner was: there seem to be technical problems which no amount of money can solve bc the engineering seem to just not work out. Also for AM I don't see mules for the Valkyrie on the road yet, and that is much closer to release and less suffering from money vs expensive technical solutions constraints ... however I am optimistic all these cars will get build, only that the performance won't be that extreme as hyped in the various articles and chatrooms over the last 2-3 years, not to say they won't be top of the line products but maybe not doing 0-200 times below 6,0 sec and maybe not driving NS 30 seconds to over one minute faster than a Senna ...
 

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most scary thing about this car is if it follows the depreciation path of all big Ferrari models it will likely cost you 130-150k a year to own (losing about 10-14% from MSRP+options, as all big (V12) non LE Ferraris did over last 2 decades plus consumables and insurance)
the old V12 lost of lot of value because they were expensive to maintain. that is not the case for the F12 or the 812, a 599GTO is still way above list, as is the tdf, as will the 812 Aperta and GTO be as well.
i'll make a bet that the residuals and total cost of ownership for this one will be better than for a Macca...
i just hope it doesnt look like a 10 year old 458 internally...
 

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think you are too optimistic ... Fchat they talk about 1550-1650kg or so ... for the AMs they are not yet build ... don't get me wrong and I know you are going to get one, but at the moment all this stuff about the RB003 is still quiet theoretical. You maybe see the massive problems AMG is having with the ONE (going so far that some ppl who have a deposit on it think they will soon get a letter the whole thing is canceled) Statement by one prospective owner was: there seem to be technical problems which no amount of money can solve bc the engineering seem to just not work out. Also for AM I don't see mules for the Valkyrie on the road yet, and that is much closer to release and less suffering from money vs expensive technical solutions constraints ... however I am optimistic all these cars will get build, only that the performance won't be that extreme as hyped in the various articles and chatrooms over the last 2-3 years, not to say they won't be top of the line products but maybe not doing 0-200 times below 6,0 sec and maybe not driving NS 30 seconds to over one minute faster than a Senna ...
Even mighty AMG is having hard time getting an engine that idles at 5k RPM to behave at 1000 RPM in order to meet environmental regulations. The Valkyrie engine DOES NOT have that problem, the engine is done. while somewhat delayed, i think most of you underestimate how much of the development you can do for a car like this in a simulator vs traditional pounding around Nardo and other tracks.
i think the performance for the Valkyrie will easily beat anything else out there
 

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the old V12 lost of lot of value because they were expensive to maintain. that is not the case for the F12 or the 812, a 599GTO is still way above list, as is the tdf, as will the 812 Aperta and GTO be as well.
i'll make a bet that the residuals and total cost of ownership for this one will be better than for a Macca...
i just hope it doesnt look like a 10 year old 458 internally...
well the ones you mention mostly are LE ones, which always followed a different path and are generally far more desirable as used cars esp if low milage and for collectors (well driven F12 and soon 812sf are another story) ... BB will get an LE too one day ... that's it than for the value keeping of the regular production car ... also a 650-750k car is not cheap from insurance and parts if sth breaks or you want sth replaced e.g. scratched cf bits or rims (simply not possible) so I am not so sure how the cost of ownership could really be so low over the years + additionally no one yet knows the intervals for battery changes and how much that will cost ... if it is 1/3 of the LaF, thats still gone be 70-90k every 5-7 years right ?
 

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Even mighty AMG is having hard time getting an engine that idles at 5k RPM to behave at 1000 RPM in order to meet environmental regulations. The Valkyrie engine DOES NOT have that problem, the engine is done. while somewhat delayed, i think most of you underestimate how much of the development you can do for a car like this in a simulator vs traditional pounding around Nardo and other tracks.
i think the performance for the Valkyrie will easily beat anything else out there
think the idle rpm one was solved (heard that some time ago) new problems are much worse related to emissions and cooling ...

I have no doubt the Valkyrie will be the most radical and fastest thing to hit the road in the foreseeable future, but I have my doubts it will really get to performance levels comparable with a LMP1 in the road version (the AMR PRO version is another thing) ... but even if it is only 20-30sec faster than a Senna we are talking about the Bellof Porsche 956 qualifying time which stood as a Ring record for 3 decades ... not a too bad thing for a road going car which you can afterwards legally go and get a coffee at some nice coffee on the Rhine 80km away
 
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