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Discussion Starter #1
For quite some time I have been wondering where the weight is hiding in cars these days.

Came across the following:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/radical-launches-le-mans-inspired-road-car


Now I know that is not an "and" car. I also know that it won't be as comfortable, spacious etc.

I get that it is aimed at different buyers.

It is however about 430kg less than a 12C and it does not even use a carbon tub.

It is also almost half price compared to a 12C.

At 430kg less, it is about the weight of TWO 12C engines less than a 12C.

Before anyone says safety regulations cause a 12C to be heavy, article says this Radical will have an EU approval.

Does any one here know where the weight is hiding in a 12C and is there a known rough brake down as to what the weights of parts of the car are? (Engine, suspension, chassis, bodywork, wheels, fuel system, electronics etc)
 

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Before anyone says safety regulations cause a 12C to be heavy, article says this Radical will have an EU approval.
An EU approval does not say much about the level of safety. I would very much prefer to sit in a 12C when crashing rather that in that Radical.

As timborama said, it all adds up. Airbags, comfy seats, power windows, Iris, A/C, sound dampening, active suspension and last but not least a powertrain good enough to keep up with 600+ hp.



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For quite some time I have been wondering where the weight is hiding in cars these days.

Came across the following:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/radical-launches-le-mans-inspired-road-car


Now I know that is not an "and" car. I also know that it won't be as comfortable, spacious etc.

I get that it is aimed at different buyers.

It is however about 430kg less than a 12C and it does not even use a carbon tub.

It is also almost half price compared to a 12C.

At 430kg less, it is about the weight of TWO 12C engines less than a 12C.

Before anyone says safety regulations cause a 12C to be heavy, article says this Radical will have an EU approval.

Does any one here know where the weight is hiding in a 12C and is there a known rough brake down as to what the weights of parts of the car are? (Engine, suspension, chassis, bodywork, wheels, fuel system, electronics etc)
I have to say though that should be an awesome piece of kit..
 

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I have to say though that should be an awesome piece of kit..
To be honest, that car does sound more like a track car despite what they are saying about it being road biased? Radicals are great track cars but what makes them good track cars kind of by default makes them less good road cars I would say.

On the weight issue, I have to say one of the things that I found a bit of a shock at first was just how much wiring the 12c carries. I know cars are very electronics heavy these days but I didn't quite realize just how until I was watching one of the documentaries ('How to build a supercar' I think) a while back....
 

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You really need an apples to apples comparison to draw any conclusions; that Radical has 17 inch wheels. For example, the 997 GT3 RS and GT2 RS were weighed by Motor Trend at 3157 lbs and 3177 lbs, respectively. So the 12C is within 50-100 lbs of those, despite being more luxurious, having a heavy DCT box and most significantly, being a full sized sports car in terms of exterior dimensions. I consider the 997 Porsches to be slightly undersized, in terms of overall size (not a bad thing).

The car that continues to impress me is the Corvette. Full sized sports car, relatively low-tech, ridiculously heavy seats, yet the curb weight is not too far off the Mac. The new C7 has a target of being 10% lighter still (so 3000 lbs CURB weight). I doubt they can actually achieve that, but I sure hope so.

I think you only have to look at P1 and Noble to get a ballpark of the lightest possible modern full-sized supercar, either with lots of electronics or without.
 

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For quite some time I have been wondering where the weight is hiding in cars these days.

Came across the following:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/radical-launches-le-mans-inspired-road-car


Now I know that is not an "and" car. I also know that it won't be as comfortable, spacious etc.

I get that it is aimed at different buyers.

It is however about 430kg less than a 12C and it does not even use a carbo

It is also almost half price compared to a 12C.

At 430kg less, it is about the weight of TWO 12C engines less than a 12C.

Before anyone says safety regulations cause a 12C to be heavy, article says this Radicalwill have an EU approva

Does any one here know where the weight is hiding in a 12C and is there a known rough brake down as to what the weights of parts of the car are? (Engine, suspension, chassis, bodywork, wheels, fuel system, electronics etc)
Saw that article too.......that Radical should go like stink......if McLaren could only bring the GT3 racer as is and road legal ala GT3 RS.......no trick suspension cut out all the creature comforts but not exactly bare bones, door pull straps maybe;)......could probably shave 150-200kg;)......now that car would be something, and pretty sure they can find takers ;)
 

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Something interesting about the corvette--leaf springs are generally lighter than coils. Add, or rather, subtract, with a manual gearbox, supercharger (lighter than turbo), efficient use of aluminum, and it's impressive indeed.
 

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Something interesting about the corvette--leaf springs are generally lighter than coils. Add, or rather, subtract, with a manual gearbox, supercharger (lighter than turbo), efficient use of aluminum, and it's impressive indeed.
Yes and I believe the leaf springs are made out of a composite material, not metal. Also, only the ZR1 is supercharged, not the base model or Z06. The new one is apparently taking advantage of the cost reductions in carbon fiber and its 6.2L V8 engine is 40 lbs LIGHTER than BMW's 4.4L twin-turbo.
 

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Yes and I believe the leaf springs are made out of a composite material, not metal. Also, only the ZR1 is supercharged, not the base model or Z06. The new one is apparently taking advantage of the cost reductions in carbon fiber and its 6.2L V8 engine is 40 lbs LIGHTER than BMW's 4.4L twin-turbo.
Now if they improve the seats and add CF backs too and wrap every interior pieces like the NEW VIPER, that would be one SIK ride;):D
 

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An EU approval does not say much about the level of safety. I would very much prefer to sit in a 12C when crashing rather that in that Radical.

As timborama said, it all adds up. Airbags, comfy seats, power windows, Iris, A/C, sound dampening, active suspension and last but not least a powertrain good enough to keep up with 600+ hp.
Those DCG's aren't light at all. About 120kgs I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
You really need an apples to apples comparison to draw any conclusions;

The car that continues to impress me is the Corvette. Full sized sports car, relatively low-tech, ridiculously heavy seats, yet the curb weight is not too far off the Mac.

I think you only have to look at P1 and Noble to get a ballpark of the lightest possible modern full-sized supercar, either with lots of electronics or without.
I am actually not comparing much here at all. I am just curious WHERE the weight is sitting/hiding in terms of major groups of parts.

The tub is about 75kg. The engine about 200kg. DCT 120kg

That leaves us with about 935kg for the rest.

Body parts
Windows
Interior
Electrical system (wiring + battery)
4 wheels
Suspension

Anybody got an idea how that brakes down?


Agreed on the Vette. That thing is way lighter and faster than you would expect it to be given it is pretty low tech compared to a 12C and others.

I think I read somewhere Radical is also working on a Carbon based one with more power for about twice the price of the thing linked to above. Now that I would expect to give the P1 a run for its money at 1/5th of the price!
 

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To be honest, that car does sound more like a track car despite what they are saying about it being road biased? Radicals are great track cars but what makes them good track cars kind of by default makes them less good road cars I would say.

On the weight issue, I have to say one of the things that I found a bit of a shock at first was just how much wiring the 12c carries. I know cars are very electronics heavy these days but I didn't quite realize just how until I was watching one of the documentaries ('How to build a supercar' I think) a while back....
Yes agree .. I think it's a track car you can keep in your garage and rive to the track as opposed to trailering it there. Certainly not an and car in my opinion. but no doubt will be fabulous on track.
 

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Yes agree .. I think it's a track car you can keep in your garage and rive to the track as opposed to trailering it there. Certainly not an and car in my opinion. but no doubt will be fabulous on track.
Have to admit to being a bit of a wimp here.. Unless I lived practically next to a race track, I would trailer a Radical of any type no matter what they claim about being road biased. If I had spent the whole day pounding round a track in one of those things, bloody great fun though they are on track I would rather not endure an hour plus of driving in that same car back home through the motorways, traffic etc.... getting old I think!
 
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