[zippycar]

Interesting thread that started over on Pistonheads regarding 458 spider, but which has developed into a used 12C spider topic:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=63&t=1269305&mid=83891&i=40&nmt=Ferrari+458+Italia+oversupply%3F&mid=83891

Scroll down to Aplolo1 and beyond.

Doesn't bode well for any of us owners !!

 

[360]

Interesting thread that started over on Pistonheads regarding 458 spider, but which has developed into a used 12C spider topic:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=63&t=1269305&mid=83891&i=40&nmt=Ferrari+458+Italia+oversupply%3F&mid=83891

Scroll down to Aplolo1 and beyond.

Doesn't bode well for any of us owners !!

I think it is amazing that even Mclaren dealers would not even give him a bid on the car, just shows what little faith they have in their cars.
Mclaren have made a complete pigs ear of the sales and marketing, how does it look to potential owners when even the dealers have no faith in the brand. Mclaren need to build the brand and if that means buying up cars to support the market in the short term until more people realise what a great car they have produced then they should get on with it, yes it may cost them money now, but they must play the long game here, If no people buy new cars, which they won't with values as is, then the manufacturer is no more, sad fact but investors want to see long term growth and will not continue to bank roll indefinitely.
They should have held back the spider, concentrated on getting the coupe right along the P1 and sorted their marketing out, raise brand awareness so that it was desired . They seem arrogant to the plight of existing owners and have ploughed on regardless, their business plan was drawn up when the world was a different place to today and they should have reacted to this change. The early adopters were great supporters of Mclaren as a brand you could trust to get it right, I wonder how many, including myself would have bought onto the brand with hindsight

 

[widowmaker911]

I think it is amazing that even Mclaren dealers would not even give him a bid on the car, just shows what little faith they have in their cars.
Mclaren have made a complete pigs ear of the sales and marketing, how does it look to potential owners when even the dealers have no faith in the brand. Mclaren need to build the brand and if that means buying up cars to support the market in the short term until more people realise what a great car they have produced then they should get on with it, yes it may cost them money now, but they must play the long game here, If no people buy new cars, which they won't with values as is, then the manufacturer is no more, sad fact but investors want to see long term growth and will not continue to bank roll indefinitely.
They should have held back the spider, concentrated on getting the coupe right along the P1 and sorted their marketing out, raise brand awareness so that it was desired . They seem arrogant to the plight of existing owners and have ploughed on regardless, their business plan was drawn up when the world was a different place to today and they should have reacted to this change. The early adopters were great supporters of Mclaren as a brand you could trust to get it right, I wonder how many, including myself would have bought onto the brand with hindsight

Could be troubling times for big Mac...........F1 not doing so well either

 

[Champagne612]

It is an extremely high spec - second owners in general don't spend more than the lowest priced one on the market.

 

[citylad]

Albeit for the MSO front, the rest are must have options, in my view. I did not go for the perforated leather, just went full black with yellow stitch, The manual seats are a must in the SP. In the SP with electric seats the back rest movement is restricted due to the change in bulk head over the coupe. The list was over 259k, it is for sale at Mclaren Birmingham at 209,950. 500 Miles

 

[Boxer]

I think it is amazing that even Mclaren dealers would not even give him a bid on the car,

Not sure it was a McLaren dealer who would not bid on the car, believe it was a network that had a McLaren dealer included in it that did not want to place a bid. Some networks work as really networks, many though act as independent businesses with a common owner.

 

[citylad]

Nope the Guy, was the buyer for ML London, they wholly owned ML London, in there group, The Guy just cut me of in mid sentence with" not interested just not interested"......Not what I had expected. We did not even get as far discussing the price.

 

[Boxer]

Nope the Guy, was the buyer for ML London, they wholly owned ML London, in there group, The Guy just cut me of in mid sentence with" not interested just not interested"......Not what I had expected. We did not even get as far discussing the price.

Really shocked. Can you PM me the guys name?

 

[LimeyBloke]

Mclaren need to build the brand and if that means buying up cars to support the market in the short term until more people realise what a great car they have produced then they should get on with it, yes it may cost them money now, but they must play the long game here, If no people buy new cars, which they won't with values as is, then the manufacturer is no more, sad fact but investors want to see long term growth and will not continue to bank roll indefinitely........

Sadly, my friend, that is the utter fog these people are in currently.
Who will be next in the garden?

 

[citylad]

I am not shocked, but don’t understand why they advertise looking for 12CS.

IMHO, leavening the current climate aside, supporting the residuals of used cars should have been an integral part of the business model. It would have enabled them to have built the brand much more quickly. Even more so as this is a new car and brand to market. Along with at presenet no other model within the range to offer price support, i.e. price wise, 355 range, 360, range, 430, range, 458 range,

All it would take IMHO to go a long way to address this point is for the Factory to support a buy back scheme, i.e. we will buy back your car for £xx within a given time at xx miles. Can you imagine the confidence that this would give to new prospective owner. This would enable new owners to change there cars more frequently, and I speak from experience on this. I had 4 x 430s in a two year period including a Scud, Ok we were in different economic times and the product was supported via market demand and not the Factory, but the principle is the same.

I know several 12c owners that would happily change to a new car, for a reasonable amount, this would drive new cars sales and give a healthy supply of used cars.

There would be no need to discount in my view, and would improve sales.

Its such a shame, as this car offers levels of performance and reliability that can be used every day along with dealer service , that in my view have never been seen before, At any price.

 

[roundincircles]

I would have traded for a Spyder but the cost, after one year and 9000 miles, is close to £100k. So I can keep the coupe and buy a Boxter S (drop head) or F Type for the wife and have the best part of £50k in my pocket for the wife's shoes.

Shame, as in one way Mclaren's policy or strategy is killing their sales and growing the competition.

It is simple for the dealers in the absence of Mclaren support. Find the price point pre-owned cars sell at, deduct their £15k or so margin and trade.

It is a financial focus for Mclaren ,ship invoiced cars, for the dealers transact at the market price..........who can blame them. It's Mclaren who are short sighted........and I have to stay in my year old, non Harry Metcalf delete edition MP12........no sympathy from my mates......it's tough out on the streets!

 

[citylad]

exactly my point, 100k to change is just MAD, Just picture this, you are collecting your new SP or coupe, at 235kish, and you are told at the point on collection. Right Sir, we will buy your old car back at say 20k form what you have paid today. Up to say a certain millage if you order a new car. At list within the next 3 months.

I for one would have my deposit in now for the 15MY face lift. As I have said there is nothing out there to match this car performance wise.

Cataclysmic mistake McLaren........

On a separate point. Interesting article in TG mag, comparing the 12C-SP to the equivalent 458, The conclusion in my view is not a fair reflection of the difference between these two cars.

I was out with a friend last month in a 458SP, that he was considering purchasing. We were making good progress when a V8 M3 came up behind us and flashed his lights, I pressed on , could not gain any distance from him, pulled down a good twisty road that I know well, and gave it the beans, Felt a lot of scuttle shake, had to back off, looked in the rear mirror...Yep M3 on the bumper

 

[Jerry]

Ok, so McLaren has bought back your 235k Spider from you at 215k (for example). What do they now do with it ... Put it on the showroom floor at 220k? Is there a market for nearly new, but used, sportscars at these levels? I suspect McLaren would just end up with a warehouse full of cars that they'd struggle to shift.

Personally, I'd take the wait, pay slightly more and spec a new one and I'm sure there are many more like me. For me to consider a used example then I'd be looking for a discount way bigger than 10% and probably similar to the discounts we read about for some of the US cars. If you can afford 90% of the value of a new 12C then it's usually fair to say you can afford the full price and will do so. Used 12Cs start to attract a whole new set of buyers when the decision is new 911 Turbo or used 12C. How much is a 911 Turbo in the US? Has that equilibrium been reached yet?

 

[citylad]

If they cut production or allocation down to a level more realistic of demand,( I am well aware that this has already been done,) but not enough in my view, Then the used 12cs would be taken up with the demand for new buyers that did not want to go on the wait list, as was the case with the 430s.

With regard to the amount, there are not that many used 12Cs around

I accept that getting the supply in line with demand, along with the retail price is a fine art, But something is seriously out of Kilter with McLaren, and in my view new car sales are suffering due to this.

I know about 15, 12C owners around the world. Most if not all would gladly trade up to a new SP, for a reasonable amount, as in 20-25k over a 12 months period, but as set out above 100k, is just MAD

IMHO

 

[mhh]

The idea that a manufacturer or its dealers would buy back a car they sold for more than its wholesale value is laughable.

 

[citylad]

Respectfully, I think you are missing the point, No one is expecting any one to take a car/ vehicle back above wholesale price, The point being, as to reasoning as to why we have such a mismatch in the first place…….along with what may or may not be options to correct this

Good Luck…..

 

[ergoproxy]

Value must be a difficult problem to manage. Subjectivity is at play, not true quality/cost. Take for example a used 458 I was shopping in North Carolina a couple years ago. 330k! Absolutely no chance. Ugly spec and they didn't even wash it. Yet they are happy to sit at that price while the market adjusts, a dozen new cars coning off the line every day. Then you have the recent "every dealership has a 430 scud" issue. They were out of warranty and would not move at 200k. Consider also the precipitous drop of the GT2 and GT2 RS. Only 135 in the USA and still massive depreciation.

Hard to justify a new 12C now. And with the used one, someone else has to get it sorted, while they pay the next owner $50-75k for their trouble. Or am I just feeling whiney today, steeped in first world problems?

 

[Jerry]

If they cut production or allocation down to a level more realistic of demand,( I am well aware that this has already been done,) but not enough in my view, Then the used 12cs would be taken up with the demand for new buyers that did not want to go on the wait list, as was the case with the 430s.

I can see what you are saying but I don't think you can compare with the 430. Things have moved on since then, the 458/12C segment is significantly more expensive than the 430 and the global economy has gone through meltdown. There just aren't many buyers for 200k GBP, "used" cars out there.

 

[citylad]

Correct, the analogy used was for analytical purpose only, In order to show what can be achieved when supply and demand are in sync, irrespective of market conditions.

Current
--------------
12c- Coupe
12c –SP
4.0 RS
F40
991S
4.2 Cayenne.
LP700. Now sold

On Order 2013/14
------------------
991 GT3
LP700 SP
991 Turbo S.
918. Deposit paid

 

[6th element]

I'm with Jerry. I have yet to see a post or proposed plan about this buyback scheme that makes sense for all parties involved, owners, dealers and shareholders. As a shareholder I'm not certain I would approve it. The market dynamic and brand history/demand simply does not exist at the moment to make it viable. You're asking shareholders to wait even longer for ROI while they finance the buyback program. It's a no-go because they would probably rather bet on the economy improving and the market being flush with new buyers to replace the disgruntled ones. Further, the buyback funds would have to be diverted from the current plan to develop and release the P13, which is the model that provides torque to the financial projections, anyway. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see RIC's wife get the shoes AND the Spider , but I rate the chance that shareholders are as sympathetic as zilch. If that is shortsighted on their part, so be it. In fact I'd be surprised if they haven't reviewed the idea and brushed it into the trash bin.