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In the same breath,they will have the 458 spyder to test first,and that will be 3 seconds faster than the coupe !!!!!,its Ferraris chance to prove the tyres have made that much difference,im sure nobody will notice;)
i wonder how they will explain a flexible spyder is quicker??
 

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Discussion Starter #3
In the same breath,they will have the 458 spyder to test first,and that will be 3 seconds faster than the coupe !!!!!,its Ferraris chance to prove the tyres have made that much difference,im sure nobody will notice;)
i wonder how they will explain a flexible spyder is quicker??
Oh they'll spin up something good, won't they andy? I can hardly wait! Don't you know they can recalibrate the F1trac system to shave off as many seconds as they need for any test. I heard the have a mapping for a sub 6 minute lap of the Ring, they are just waiting to charge owners for the upgrade! ;) What's even more amazing is that they can make the 458 spider weigh another 100 kg less than customer coupes, just by tuning the F1trac! Amazing, McLaren should develop this technology, it's pure Formula One derived, don't you know!! :)
 

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I know I've said it before but you guys mention Ferrari in your threads almost more than McLaren. Now I'm a Ferrari owner and a big fan, I know their flaws, but I come onto this forum to read about McLaren. I know there will always be mentions of the competition but it is EXCESSIVE!

Now back to the Spider, my order is in so will be good to see it do a great time in the hands of the Stig!
 

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I know I've said it before but you guys mention Ferrari in your threads almost more than McLaren. Now I'm a Ferrari owner and a big fan, I know their flaws, but I come onto this forum to read about McLaren. I know there will always be mentions of the competition but it is EXCESSIVE!

Now back to the Spider, my order is in so will be good to see it do a great time in the hands of the Stig!
Russell,we are just having fun! we dont feel threatened by Ferrari ,just letting everyone know its the other way round,and i actually think we talk about Knickers more:D
Only two more days to go,and you will know what she really looks like!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know I've said it before but you guys mention Ferrari in your threads almost more than McLaren. Now I'm a Ferrari owner and a big fan, I know their flaws, but I come onto this forum to read about McLaren. I know there will always be mentions of the competition but it is EXCESSIVE!

Now back to the Spider, my order is in so will be good to see it do a great time in the hands of the Stig!
I make no apologies, Russell. I've been on this board from the very start and Andy and I combined have put up more McLaren-only content probably than the rest of the members combined. Ferrari's tactics are based in fact, despite what some would have the general public believe. As such, it is an important topic for car owners of every type. I bet Enron shareholders and Madoff victims would have appreciated some open discussion about what was really going on behind the scenes. Thankfully Chris Harris shed light on the issue so that encourages people to question what manufacturers are doing.

You can always use the ignore feature, I won't be offended. But as information continues to reveal itself, such as this Car & Driver article regarding the Michelin tires, I will mention it and crack a joke or two. If you think the topic is irrelevant or not important to McLaren, I urge you to call Anthony Joseph, NA GM and former employee of Ferrari by the way. I spoke with him at length at my dealer grand opening and his commentary on this exact issue was very insightful, indeed.

Congrats on the Spider. What a phenomenal car this is going to be. 2 more days!!! :)
 

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I make no apologies, Russell. I've been on this board from the very start and Andy and I combined have put up more McLaren-only content probably than the rest of the members combined. Ferrari's tactics are based in fact, despite what some would have the general public believe. As such, it is an important topic for car owners of every type. I bet Enron shareholders and Madoff victims would have appreciated some open discussion about what was really going on behind the scenes. Thankfully Chris Harris shed light on the issue so that encourages people to question what manufacturers are doing.

You can always use the ignore feature, I won't be offended. But as information continues to reveal itself, such as this Car & Driver article regarding the Michelin tires, I will mention it and crack a joke or two. If you think the topic is irrelevant or not important to McLaren, I urge you to call Anthony Joseph, NA GM and former employee of Ferrari by the way. I spoke with him at length at my dealer grand opening and his commentary on this exact issue was very insightful, indeed.

Congrats on the Spider. What a phenomenal car this is going to be. 2 more days!!! :)
Wouldn't dream of using ignore and certainly not expecting you to apologise, but I stand by my point that all too often any thread turns to a Ferrari bash. I don't know if I'm unusual, but I don't really care if Ferrari did something in a test to be a couple of seconds per lap quicker. It doesn't matter to me with regards to a car choice. The weak link in the time for any car lap time will be ME! What is important to me is the feeling I get when I'm driving, only a test drive (extended) will tell me what I need to know. I will read all the tests but I will make the decision, after all it's my car.

Please don't compare it to Enron and Madoff, that is plain silly, people have lost their life savings, if we have learn't anything so far it's that on a purely financial footing the F car is the better bet when it comes to resale.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wouldn't dream of using ignore and certainly not expecting you to apologise, but I stand by my point that all too often any thread turns to a Ferrari bash. I don't know if I'm unusual, but I don't really care if Ferrari did something in a test to be a couple of seconds per lap quicker. It doesn't matter to me with regards to a car choice. The weak link in the time for any car lap time will be ME! What is important to me is the feeling I get when I'm driving, only a test drive (extended) will tell me what I need to know. I will read all the tests but I will make the decision, after all it's my car.

Please don't compare it to Enron and Madoff, that is plain silly, people have lost their life savings, if we have learn't anything so far it's that on a purely financial footing the F car is the better bet when it comes to resale.
Not comparing YOU to Enron or Madoff! Anyway point taken and we can agree to disagree - it's a popular arrangement around here nowadays. Everybody has their own value system and I am fine with yours if you are fine with mine. Enjoy the wait for the Spider, the anticipation is half the fun. Cheers.
 

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I spend time on other forums and I have to say that the Ferrari and Lambo crowd visit the MClaren Forums to criticize much more that we do here. There is a huge threat felt by other brand owners. As a new car maker, there must be targets and comps for comparison. It is a compliment for Ferrari to be the target. I know that doesn't resonate well with Ferrari people because they have been on top for so long but every pinnacle will always have to recognize a challengers ascension.
 

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I spend time on other forums and I have to say that the Ferrari and Lambo crowd visit the MClaren Forums to criticize much more that we do here. There is a huge threat felt by other brand owners. As a new car maker, there must be targets and comps for comparison. It is a compliment for Ferrari to be the target. I know that doesn't resonate well with Ferrari people because they have been on top for so long but every pinnacle will always have to recognize a challengers ascension.
Really, wow. :eek: My point was the complete opposite. I feel as a Ferrari owner and also as someone with a 12C spider on order that visiting this site is usually a case of reading as many Ferrari bashing posts as it is reading informative 12C posts. Oh well, I need to worry less, ignore the Ferrari bashes and concentrate on the 12C based threads. :D
 

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Really, wow. :eek: My point was the complete opposite. I feel as a Ferrari owner and also as someone with a 12C spider on order that visiting this site is usually a case of reading as many Ferrari bashing posts as it is reading informative 12C posts. Oh well, I need to worry less, ignore the Ferrari bashes and concentrate on the 12C based threads. :D
I didn't mean to single you out. I was responding to the notion that there is a lot of Ferrari talk here. It's only natural to compare especially considering the F1 connection. If you spend time on any other forum, you'll get an idea of what I mean when the Ferrari and Lambo people visit to dump on the 12C. "There's no soul, it looks ordinary, technical glitches etc." It's just like the AM critics in reverse, all looks, bad performance and so on. There has to be a bench mark. In this case it's the 458. If I were a Porsche guy or a Lambo person, I would be pissed that my car wasn't in the conversation. By the way I have a spider under deposit as well. What colors are you thinking?
 

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By the way I have a spider under deposit as well. What colors are you thinking?
I think for me that will depend on what it looks like roof up and roof down!
 

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knowing the coupe, I would love the spider simply because I can alter the car even more vs the coupe... I can have the car open top or closed and with the adjustability of how the car performs and sounds.... Thats what I love about this car...
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Really, wow. :eek: My point was the complete opposite. I feel as a Ferrari owner and also as someone with a 12C spider on order that visiting this site is usually a case of reading as many Ferrari bashing posts as it is reading informative 12C posts. Oh well, I need to worry less, ignore the Ferrari bashes and concentrate on the 12C based threads. :D
Russell, I value your perspective but I think there are subtleties that are being missed by the casual observer, which is perhaps inevitable due to the nature of a web forum.

Certainly, I feel that there are generalizations about McLaren owners that all we care about is lap times, each fraction of second, etc., etc., perhaps in the same vein as Porsche owners are sometimes viewed. For me, however, this issue is not about that. As I told Tony Joseph directly, I don't care if the 12C is the fastest or not because there will ALWAYS be something faster. If not today, then just wait a couple of months. What I DO care about is McLaren fostering a corporate culture of integrity and honesty with its customers. Of course I am aware that all manufacturers will meddle to some extent, but I pleaded with Joseph to make sure that McLaren press cars are representative of customer cars - not because I hope to turn 1:16.2 at Dunsfold myself, but because I feel the ideology is important. For example, when Luca says unequivocally that he will NOT build a 458 Scuderia version - if he ends up doing so, I find that very disingenuous. Of course, serial Ferrari buyers will say that is just salesmanship, but what about the fella that has only saved up enough to do this once? I have a list of other such examples that have soured me to Ferrari's current corporate culture, but believe me, as a long-time Ferrari fan (since age 10 to be exact) nobody wants, more than me, to see them, and manufacturers in general, put their best foot forward and take the high road more often. I won't accept being labelled as naive, either, as I am a lifelong entrepreneur and I have tried to uphold a standard of ethics in my own affairs that hasn't prevented me from achieving some success. (and truth be told, I still cling to a goal of owning as many 12 cylinder, gated shifter Ferraris as I can afford in my lifetime)

So, much of what you see here can be trivialized as senseless Ferrari-bashing by self-serving McLaren owners, but I maintain that the undertones and reasons behind it are not so childish. Yes, I will often poke fun, but you must realize that much of that is directed at some very opportunistic members of other forums that came over here to gloat when McLaren had their initial teething troubles. Now that McLaren is out the other side and the car fairly seems to be kicking ass all over the place, it's hard to resist the odd jab since I know they are still reading, if no longer gloating. Yes, that bit is slightly juvenile, but hey we have to entertain ourselves somehow. :) I know they are doing the same anyway and in the grand scheme of things, as andy says, it is all harmless fun.

Cheers.
 

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Hope the 12C spider is nice, thinking of switching from the coupe to a spider. Heard it uses the same roof as the 458 spider which is bad news as i cancelled my 458 spider because i did not like the look of the car. Dealer told me today it will arrive in a year's time.
 

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HI Russell996
I am a coupe woner but thinking of trading it in for a spyder. Whats the lead time on these nowadays? I am in the UK btw.
 

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HI Russell996
I am a coupe woner but thinking of trading it in for a spyder. Whats the lead time on these nowadays? I am in the UK btw.
No idea as yet I'm afraid.
 
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