[Moncho]

Just got my June issue of MT, which has a good review of the 12C. Nothing new... The same tech stuff, but with a very positive spin. The obligatory comparison to the 458 is made in the fact and figure table, with the 12C on top. The final verdict...

"But is the Mclaren capable of outshining its obvious Ferrari 458 rival? That question hasn't escaped us, so stay tuned for a future showdown."

I think the tide is turning.

This is probably illegible, but here it goes:

 

[6th element]

"But is the Mclaren capable of outshining its obvious Ferrari 458 rival? That question hasn't escaped us, so stay tuned for a future showdown."

Oh yay, Ferrari 458 press car version 3.0 being prepped as we speak. "Mr. Motor Trend, this is Ferrari North America, please let us know at which track you will be conducting the comparo...." Here we go, again.

Thanks for the images, though. Was it a complete road test with performance data, or are those manufacturer's claims in the tables? Does it say which tires (assuming standard P0 because U.S. car)?

 

[AugustWest]

Yes, let the wild Ferrari cheating begin (again)...

 

[6th element]

Think this is probably the same article: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1203_2012_mclaren_mp4_12c_first_test/

So yes, tested on standard P0 tires and still did 11.1s quarter mile on that dusty track and tied GT2 RS (which would have been on Cup tires) for fastest figure 8 course time ever. Good show.

 

[Moncho]

]

Thanks for the images, though. Was it a complete road test with performance data, or are those manufacturer's claims in the tables? Does it say which tires (assuming standard P0 because U.S. car)?

These are MT's numbers. 458 was tested a year ago. Both cars were tested on the same track. 458 had the Michelin PSS. Stock P0 for the 12C.

Here's a better look at the numbers:

 

[6th element]

Yes, let the wild Ferrari cheating begin (again)...

What's interesting is that the article says the 12C beat both 458 Italias they have tested around the figure 8 course. So I wonder if they are going to test 458 press car v3.0 around the figure 8 and what will it do... My guess is that the new car will be magically faster, but as usual a blind eye will be turned to that fact. Would love to see the U.S. rags take a stand and call it what it is, like Harris did, but I can pretty much guarantee it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Moncho]

Think this is probably the same article: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1203_2012_mclaren_mp4_12c_first_test/

Correct!

 

[AugustWest]

What's interesting is that the article says the 12C beat both 458 Italias they have tested around the figure 8 course. So I wonder if they are going to test 458 press car v3.0 around the figure 8 and what will it do... My guess is that the new car will be magically faster, but as usual a blind eye will be turned to that fact. Would love to see the U.S. rags take a stand and call it what it is, like Harris did, but I can pretty much guarantee it ain't gonna happen.

...even if all they do is point out the times from the previous tests.

I'm not so much bothered that Ferrari might evolve things over the production run, but much more that they're sending ringers that are no way reprepresentative of the cars folks can buy. If I was a 458 owner, I'd be pretty royally pissed off about it!

 

[TougeSpirit]

McLaren is insanely fast around the figure 8. Especially considering those tires, the MP4-12C is stunning in terms of performance. Can't wait for the clubsport to really start getting people's hair to stand on end. It'll demolish everything

 

[6th element]

...even if all they do is point out the times from the previous tests.

I'm not so much bothered that Ferrari might evolve things over the production run, but much more that they're sending ringers that are no way reprepresentative of the cars folks can buy. If I was a 458 owner, I'd be pretty royally pissed off about it!

I especially like how the 458 press cars keep shedding fat with each version. So the 2011 press car Motor Trend tested weighed 3440 lbs. The famous 458 FNE ringer from the UK comparos? 3325 lbs. Nice little 115 lb diet, hope nobody noticed. You would think if customer cars shed over a hundred pounds each model year, they would press release that instead of the new "emotional gearbox update". Oh wait, say the tifosi, lighter seats, less fuel, carbon dash!! Let's see what 458 press car v3.0 weighs in at. At that rate, probably lighter than the 12C!

And for crying out loud, McLaren, send a car with Corsa tires. It's a factory option. It's the least you can do when Ferrari is going to send their press cars on tires stickier than fly paper.

 

[MP4ME]

Ferrari Cheating Say it isnt so !!!!

 

[widowmaker911]

]

These are MT's numbers. 458 was tested a year ago. Both cars were tested on the same track. 458 had the Michelin PSS. Stock P0 for the 12C.

Here's a better look at the numbers:

View attachment 870

 

[6th element]

2013 GT-R and 997.2 Turbo S both bested these times.......just go down the list

As did Aventador and Veyron. A RWD car will never again rule 0-60 and quarter mile.

 

[texas mongrel]

As did Aventador and Veyron. A RWD car will never again rule 0-60 and quarter mile.

I've never seen a sucessful four wheel drive dragster........

Not a dig 6E, just an observation.

 

[6th element]

I've never seen a sucessful four wheel drive dragster........

Not a dig 6E, just an observation.

The way I see it, the Enzo successor and the F1 successor have a chance (as long as KERS isn't deployed through the front wheels, effectively making them AWD), but it will be awfully tough seeing as how the Veyron SS is already sub-10s at over 140MPH. Even if they do beat it, I'm sure the next Veyron will easily get it back. Talking factory production vehicles, of course.

 

[widowmaker911]

As did Aventador and Veyron. A RWD car will never again rule 0-60 and quarter mile.

Also beat or tied figure 8

 

[AugustWest]

Frankly, regardless whatever numbers an AWD car can generate - I'm not driving numbers. I want my hands to control the front wheels, and my right foot to control the rear (and ME to control the balance between them).

There's a reason Balboni specified RWD for the Gallardo bearing his name.

Great cars are RWD, as god intended.

 

[6th element]

I believe if Nissan keeps evolving the GT-R, it will undoubtedly own all the "numbers" including accel, figure 8, skidpad, etc., except for maybe accel from 100mph onwards. Their AWD and ESC/TC technology is mind-boggling for the things they can do with that car, given its high curb weight.

Probably not a car that I'll own, but I respect its massive capabilities, especially at the price.

 

[texas mongrel]

So, someone pull some moulds off the MP4, then we can buy a trashed GTR and voila, with a bit of welding and a lick of paint and we'll have the ultimate kit car!

 

[TougeSpirit]

I believe if Nissan keeps evolving the GT-R, it will undoubtedly own all the "numbers" including accel, figure 8, skidpad, etc., except for maybe accel from 100mph onwards. Their AWD and ESC/TC technology is mind-boggling for the things they can do with that car, given its high curb weight.

Probably not a car that I'll own, but I respect its massive capabilities, especially at the price.

The way to look at it is from the Time Attack Scene. Yes, AWD cars tend to generally have an advantage, but with great aero and enough grip, RWD cars are as fast (and in one case, faster). Factor X Motorsport's NSX is faster than Sierra Sierra's Evo, and on a lower budget, as well. In Japan, Revolution's RX-7 and Top Fuel's S2000 are doing very well, too.

A GTR with a significant weight loss and further advances in power output and electronics/programming would trash the current supercars, but I'm not sure it'd beat the track day special versions that are due to come out in a few years time. And I definitely don't think it would take on the hypercars. I would bet that significant active aero will be used, and that will change the nature of the game