[Wtdoom]

I know that sometimes I come across as a moaner about lap times etc .
However I have come across something some of you may like . I know most here think the 458s tested by magazines are ringers , if this is true you will be happier still .
A Finnish mag has tested the 12c in Sweden and it broke the all time lap record and got a perfect 60 in the test .
I read this on ph , there was no link but they did provide link to the laps page showing the times . FYI the fastest a 458 has ever been round that track is 2 seconds slower , a significant time in that circuit ( ringer or not !). Interesting stuff indeed For some of you I hope .
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/ring_knutstrop_conf_2.html

 

[ergoproxy]

Cool. And I bet most of the top 20 were on R compounds or cups. Do you know whether the 12C was using standard pzeros?

 

[Markjayw]

Look closer, the 458 tested is an early model, listed as 2009 even though 2010 was first model year. That means no Michelin Pilot SS tires, and also no tweaked traction control that the 2012's have. Regardless, 100 lbs. lighter and more hp, it should be faster. Love the Scud time, only .2 off the 458.

 

[unotaz]

I wonder how much of an improvement would be if the 12C is fitted with the Micheline PSS tires?

 

[Markjayw]

I wonder how much of an improvement would be if the 12C is fitted with the Micheline PSS tires?

I asked McLaren San Francisco about ordering one with PSS's, they said no, that the MP4 was designed around the Pirelli's, so who knows?

 

[unotaz]

I asked McLaren San Francisco about ordering one with PSS's, they said no, that the MP4 was designed around the Pirelli's, so who knows?

Yeah, but that's typically dealer sales talk. Ferrari runs "specially designed" PZeros on the 458 and 599 and I know from experience that the Michelin PSS are superior in every single way.

My gut feeling is that with the PSS, the 12C should shave a few tenths off from its lap time (with PZero). With both cars on the same tires, it would make the comparison test between the 458 and the 12C a fair one.

 

[Markjayw]

Yeah, but that's typically dealer sales talk. Ferrari runs "specially designed" PZeros on the 458 and 599 and I know from experience that the Michelin PSS are superior in every single way.

My gut feeling is that with the PSS, the 12C should shave a few tenths off from its lap time (with PZero). With both cars on the same tires, it would make the comparison test between the 458 and the 12C a fair one.

Agree 100%

 

[andy c]

Agree 100%

Agree also,but the gap would be even bigger if you used the 2013 12c Which of coarse they all will be regarding the tech and power

 

[Markjayw]

Agree also,but the gap would be even bigger if you used the 2013 12c Which of coarse they all will be regarding the tech and power

To be fair, yes the extra power would / should increase the gap Andy.

 

[6th element]

Agree also,but the gap would be even bigger if you used the 2013 12c Which of coarse they all will be regarding the tech and power

I think it would be, Andy. Having driven my car and a 625PS version on track (admittedly not back to back), the extra grunt felt usable on the circuit.

 

[emve]

Respectable result from 12C. However, not as amazing as in Autocar B-road comparo. It seems McLaren crew sent with the car did a good job. The submitter of the laptime states :

"McLaren adjusted the car for the track before testing. Pzero Corsa tires." According to following link, it also seems it is the new 625hp version. Not sure about that.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/5018f8ba23a1f.html

The 458 tested earlier was a customer car, no weight saving options (wheels, seats, carbon), no sport tires.

Here is the vid featuring 12C : http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/autot/ve...utot-scandinavian-sports-car-of-the-year-2012

And the 458 : http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/autot/vertailut/tm-vertailu-scandinavian-sports-car-of-the-year-2011

 

[6th element]

Respectable result from 12C. However, not as amazing as in Autocar B-road comparo. It seems McLaren crew sent with the car did a good job. The submitter of the laptime states :

"McLaren adjusted the car for the track before testing. Pzero Corsa tires." According to following link, it also seems it is the new 625hp version. Not sure about that.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/5018f8ba23a1f.html

The 458 tested earlier was a customer car, no weight saving options (wheels, seats, carbon), no sport tires.

Here is the vid featuring 12C : http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/autot/ve...utot-scandinavian-sports-car-of-the-year-2012

And the 458 : http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/autot/vertailut/tm-vertailu-scandinavian-sports-car-of-the-year-2011

Great vids, thanks. The difference in body roll does come across.

 

[McDc]

I see steel brakes

 

[Markjayw]

I see steel brakes

Talked with Sir Mix A Lot last weekend, his car has cc brakes, he wishes he had the normal steel.

 

[Markjayw]

Respectable result from 12C. However, not as amazing as in Autocar B-road comparo. It seems McLaren crew sent with the car did a good job. The submitter of the laptime states :

"McLaren adjusted the car for the track before testing. Pzero Corsa tires." According to following link, it also seems it is the new 625hp version. Not sure about that.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/laptimes/5018f8ba23a1f.html

The 458 tested earlier was a customer car, no weight saving options (wheels, seats, carbon), no sport tires.car-of-the-year-2011[/url]

Not a real fair comparison then. CF race seats and the sport/forged wheels make a significant weight difference on the 458, plus no Ferrari crew to "set up" the car, let alone the tires.

 

[andy c]

Not a real fair comparison then. CF race seats and the sport/forged wheels make a significant weight difference on the 458, plus no Ferrari crew to "set up" the car, let alone the tires.

Again Mark,you forget every 12c sent out to the magazine tests were fully loaded with electric seats.They never once sent out a car with all the weight saving options,so like you say it was never a fair comparison

 

[Markjayw]

Again Mark,you forget every 12c sent out to the magazine tests were fully loaded with electric seats.They never once sent out a car with all the weight saving options,so like you say it was never a fair comparison

I can never argue with Andy, funny, I find the 458 tested model flaws, he finds the MP4's tested model flaws, not flaws, but maybe could have had different options to increase performance in the test.

 

[andy c]

I can never argue with Andy, funny, I find the 458 tested model flaws, he finds the MP4's tested model flaws, not flaws, but maybe could have had different options to increase performance in the test.

We all know now they were new to the game were tests were concerned.On one in particular i queried a problem with the Factory as certain corners were calling foul.Then i was given a feasable explanation and a letter stating that any car given for a test would always be equal of one you could BUY.For that i have great respect for them and know i would never get anything written down by any other manufacturer.
This is one of the reasons they are so different,they are so open with their customers and do take on board everyones suggestions,but its early in the game and they are starting at the top.

 

[AugustWest]

If nothing else, the chart shows why I'd rather have a Scud than a 458. But I'd far rather have a 12C than either of them. ...or anything else, for that matter.

 

[Markjayw]

If nothing else, the chart shows why I'd rather have a Scud than a 458. But I'd far rather have a 12C than either of them. ...or anything else, for that matter.

2009 Scud's are the best value period in the used Exotic Car Market right now. High 180's to 209k. Car's have dumped over 1/3 value in 3 years. 16M's are a bit tougher, since only 499 made, some are priced realistically, some are way over priced looking for buyers from the Middle East that live in Castles.

I really liked the new Car and Driver long distance test of the MP4. He kinda picked on Ron Dennis and his cleanliness is close to godliness philosophy, but it was cute.