New Tesla Roadster Destroys Every Other Car? - Page 43 - McLaren Life
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post #631 of 743 Old 05-23-2019, 10:25 PM
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It always strikes me as curious how personally some people seem to take criticism of Elon Musk.
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post #632 of 743 Old 05-23-2019, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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It always strikes me as curious how personally some people seem to take criticism of Elon Musk.
I find the contrary true too. How personally some need to criticize him.
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post #633 of 743 Old 05-23-2019, 11:15 PM
 
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NB,
On the plus side, love your input and insight on Mac's F1 efforts.
Bill
lola you have been a forward thinker on EV from the beginning on McLarenLife and I suspect swayed many of us to take a serious look at EV’s — taking on the mission of getting NB into a EV …. now that’s real courage!
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post #634 of 743 Old 05-23-2019, 11:54 PM
 
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Depreciation not so bad in Tesla country! Model S
6% after 10,000 miles
12% after 20,000 miles
18% after 30,000 miles
23% after 40,000 miles
28% after 50,000 miles
32% after 60,000 miles
37% after 70,000 miles
41% after 80,000 miles
44% after 90,000 miles
48% after 100,000 miles
https://insideevs.com/news/331367/re...t-50000-miles/
not in HK it is isnt, 5k miles car for almost 50% off
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post #635 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 12:21 AM
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NB, I do not know what your problem is with Tesla. You may very well be right about the company's demise but I have no idea how you can run your fingers like you do about the quality of effort and lack of meaningful accomplishment. It just does not line up with the facts.
These discussions are largely for fun. Although it is wrong to misrepresent facts, I think it is perfectly okay to exaggerate one's sentiments for the sake of the argument.

To answer your question:

I appreciate (and admitted above) that Elon Musk is good, maybe even really good, at some things. The reasons that I nonetheless dislike him include:
- He makes a huge effort to publicise himself. I find that an offensive practice. Muhammad Ali, Serena Williams and Willie Mays earned the right to brag about themselves. Elon Musk - I don't think so!
- He lacks integrity. He was totally out of order in making the false statements that got him in big trouble with the SEC, and only a few months after they censured him he broke the rules again. Unacceptable.
- Musk has said that one of his goals is for all cars to be electric, and all ICEs to be put out of commission. I don't mind if everybody else happily drives a BEV, but I don't want the state dictating that I must give up mine.
- He made the cardinal sin of crashing a McLaren F1 out of sheer incompetence. In doing so he endangered innocent bystanders, and yet he thought the whole thing was funny.
- In this week's Autocar there is a quote from Audi's head of design, Marc Lichte: "In 10 or 15 years, everyone will say, 'Remember when everyone put an iPad in their car?' I don't want to do this." I find the domination of Tesla interiors by big touchscreens to be unsafe, impractical, and deeply unattractive.
- My first point was the most germane one. I just cannot stand egomaniacs, self-promoters and bullshit artists, and Elon Musk falls into those dubious categories.

The more a man promotes himself, the more he invites criticism and the more entitled observers are to criticise him. I'd probably be much more sympathetic towards Tesla if Musk would give up his role as its front-man and just go off and play with rockets.
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post #636 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 12:23 AM
 
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not in HK it is isnt, 5k miles car for almost 50% off
Yes. Insurance is readily available here for Tesla's. I think there may be some slight premium increase based upon repair costs — perhaps aluminum parts? But the Model 3 insurance seemed close to what I pay for similar priced cars.
Not good that you can not get insurance coverage in HK.
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post #637 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 03:47 AM
 
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Yes. Insurance is readily available here for Tesla's. I think there may be some slight premium increase based upon repair costs — perhaps aluminum parts? But the Model 3 insurance seemed close to what I pay for similar priced cars.
Not good that you can not get insurance coverage in HK.
EVs in HK used to be great. No first registration tax vs say 115% for a Mclaren. so a Model S was cheaper than an equal powered BMW 5 series. and of course you cant travel very far in HK, and you either go uphill, down hill or sit still. all areas an EV excel at.
then the government scrapped that subsidy so now a Model S P100D is US220k
Then clearly Tesla fcucked up with spare parts and repair costs, making insurers lose money and forcing rate hikes and all but ONE insurance company now refuses to quote for a Tesla.
which of course affects peoples willingness to buy the car, hence the 2nd hand values.
The latest upgrade on the firmware has destroyed the selfdriving at least in HK. it is now even more dangerous and daft.

Shame as HK used to be one of Teslas biggest markets, and I'm a massive fan of what he has done for the overall car industry. EV adaption but also some interior design and features.
I have been short TSLA stock over the last year, i am not anymore as he did manage to raise some more equity. Still not convinced tesla will survive as an independent manufacturer. Does Tesla have value? undoubtedly, but that doesnt mean it will survive or thrive
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post #638 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 04:39 AM
 
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EVs in HK used to be great. No first registration tax vs say 115% for a Mclaren. so a Model S was cheaper than an equal powered BMW 5 series. and of course you cant travel very far in HK, and you either go uphill, down hill or sit still. all areas an EV excel at.
then the government scrapped that subsidy so now a Model S P100D is US220k
Then clearly Tesla fcucked up with spare parts and repair costs, making insurers lose money and forcing rate hikes and all but ONE insurance company now refuses to quote for a Tesla.
which of course affects peoples willingness to buy the car, hence the 2nd hand values.
The latest upgrade on the firmware has destroyed the selfdriving at least in HK. it is now even more dangerous and daft.

Shame as HK used to be one of Teslas biggest markets, and I'm a massive fan of what he has done for the overall car industry. EV adaption but also some interior design and features.
I have been short TSLA stock over the last year, i am not anymore as he did manage to raise some more equity. Still not convinced tesla will survive as an independent manufacturer. Does Tesla have value? undoubtedly, but that doesnt mean it will survive or thrive
Yes, As you would be aware Tesla has started a new factory in the Shanghai Free Trade Zone that I believe will have both a battery manufacturing plant and a car assembly factory. A significant part of Tesla’s projected future is based upon doing business in China. Tesla should do well as a high end brand in a society that is committed to EV.
This expansion may alleviate the spare parts issue that you are facing, but of course will take some (China development) time to get up and running — much quicker construction time in China than USA!
The software updates are as you say are a work in progress — here the freeway driving is pretty solid from on ramp to off ramp. But the off freeway side street driving, where lane markings are more spread out and irregular, the system is still unreliable — with frequent use of AV and making driver over-ride corrections eventually Tesla seems to notice the corrections being made and updates the system. On one of my near daily off freeway routes I no longer have to make any interventions — the AV seems to have been updated to handle all of the previous required intervention cases. Of course Tesla would not yet be monitoring AV correction inputs from HK.

Even a bankrupt Tesla would leave a legacy that would be picked up at a good price, so I don’t lose any sleep over Tesla’s future.
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post #639 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 10:46 AM
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lola you have been a forward thinker on EV from the beginning on McLarenLife and I suspect swayed many of us to take a serious look at EV’s — taking on the mission of getting NB into a EV …. now that’s real courage!
My intent is not to convert. The interiors of the MS I've owned have gotten better but can not hold a candle to any Audi, BMW or MB I've owned. I get it when people dismiss the product for interior quality. I'm in it for the driving dynamics and just happen, as others have pointed out, have the use profile and access to charging that allow a BeV to provide superior (to ICE) utility. That is most certainly not the case with everyone else.

I guess I'm just a little weary of this new world of alternative facts and I was lashing out a bit. NB, sorry if you got tarred with that reactionary brush. Yea, the guy is a blow hard but I do have to appreciate the genius of generating that much revenue with little if any advertising budget. Lord knows I could not pull it off on my best day. As for the SEC, if you've dealt with them you know they, like a lot of the rest of our government, are suffering from the competence draining away. Tesla's growth and valuation were not in line. That generates opportunity for those that would manipulate the situation for personal gain. Elon is no dummy, learns from previous mistakes and takes issues head on (and makes new, even bigger mistakes in the process it would seem). You do not just lay down and let the type of people manipulating the life blood of your ability to move your project forward go unimpeded. I can understand why he did what he did. I'm not close enough to properly judge the overall success of that effort; I only see the publicly facing clown show of it blowing up in his face. Normally something like that would have brought about even more aggressive board action so I suspect there is more going on than I can see.

Nothing in life is perfect. I just try to be as realistic as I can and see with the clearest possible eyes knowing, like us all, I have my biases.

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post #640 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 05:07 PM
 
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This may turn into the best business so far for Elon Musk
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/05/2...oyed-in-orbit/

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post #641 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 06:03 PM
 
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i have a bridge to sell you..., that 20-25% margin is called accounting. If TSLA really made that then they would be profitable. Similar to Mclaren, they claim a good margin, but keeps on losing money...
"Once the Model 3 teardown was complete, Munro later admitted to eating “a lot of crow” in response to the technology installed and implemented throughout the car. He praised the Model 3 battery pack and the way it handles on the road, in particular, and also estimated Tesla was turning a 30% profit on the vehicle. Munro ultimately concluded that everything from the car’s suspension and down was perfect, but everything about its bodywork was questionable."
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post #642 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 06:22 PM
 
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"Once the Model 3 teardown was complete, Munro later admitted to eating “a lot of crow” in response to the technology installed and implemented throughout the car. He praised the Model 3 battery pack and the way it handles on the road, in particular, and also estimated Tesla was turning a 30% profit on the vehicle. Munro ultimately concluded that everything from the car’s suspension and down was perfect, but everything about its bodywork was questionable."
A well optioned $50K+ Model 3 is profitable, however a base $35K with profit is still problematic for Tesla.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...rn-2019-2019-3
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post #643 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 06:27 PM
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A well optioned $50K+ Model 3 is profitable, however a base $35K with profit is still problematic for Tesla.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...rn-2019-2019-3
Where as VW are taking deposits on the ID at 50k and promising under 30k next year for a more basic model...

When you cant sell at the market price, you can’t compete...
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post #644 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 07:43 PM
 
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A well optioned $50K+ Model 3 is profitable, however a base $35K with profit is still problematic for Tesla.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...rn-2019-2019-3
Where as VW are taking deposits on the ID at 50k and promising under 30k next year for a more basic model...

When you cant sell at the market price, you can’t compete...
Yes that sounds just like Tesla you mean??!!
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post #645 of 743 Old 05-24-2019, 07:57 PM
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Yes that sounds just like Tesla you mean??!!
Yes. Just VW will make money from it. Small difference
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