New Tesla Roadster Destroys Every Other Car? - Page 30 - McLaren Life
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post #436 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PieGuy View Post
Well they are doing what they do, pushing car tech along, naturally they got to up the less round steering direction

Really, i think their goal here is just to give us something to hold and turn while making 'vrrrooomm VROOOOM' sounds while their car drives it self, OBVIOUSLY get with the times.
Yep, makes a lot of sense to have a "Roadster" sports car that drives itself.
At least Tesla are consistent - they continue to produce vehicles designed by teenagers in Palo Alto bedrooms. Wonder what they'll do when they grow up? Let's hope it has nothing to do with automobiles.
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post #437 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 02:08 PM
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I fully agree with you, but it seems to me that this is not the final interior.
Perhaps not, but it wouldn't be fundamentally different from the final version either.
Until these fools grasp the simple fact that driving a vehicle requires actually looking at the road ahead, rather than mindlessly scrolling through a console-mounted touchscreen, it will be impossible to take them seriously.
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post #438 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 02:35 PM
 
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Yep, makes a lot of sense to have a "Roadster" sports car that drives itself.
At least Tesla are consistent - they continue to produce vehicles designed by teenagers in Palo Alto bedrooms. Wonder what they'll do when they grow up? Let's hope it has nothing to do with automobiles.
that doesnt worry me, they will have been bought up before they go bankrupt before they grow up
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post #439 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 02:52 PM
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that doesnt worry me, they will have been bought up before they go bankrupt before they grow up
Aren't you hoping for/expecting the company to go bust first, and then perhaps a real company will come along to pick up the few worthwhile scraps?
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post #440 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 03:12 PM
 
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Perhaps not, but it wouldn't be fundamentally different from the final version either.
Until these fools grasp the simple fact that driving a vehicle requires actually looking at the road ahead, rather than mindlessly scrolling through a console-mounted touchscreen, it will be impossible to take them seriously.
Well looking at RPM, Oil level, Oil temp, etc dashboard info might also be seen as a distraction. The Tesla screen is set up for your preferred information display most don't touch the screen after setting up at least no more than ICE cars.

It is a modern uncluttered look ...
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post #441 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 03:48 PM
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Well looking at RPM, Oil level, Oil temp, etc dashboard info might also be seen as a distraction. The Tesla screen is set up for your preferred information display most don't touch the screen after setting up at least no more than ICE cars.

It is a modern uncluttered look ...
Exactly - it's a look, designed by people who value how something looks above how it functions. That's okay for torn jeans and $500 sneakers, but not for two-ton machines traveling at 80 mph.

Going by the example in the video, are there any gauges, switches or controls (apart from the big bow-tie) that are accessible without using the touchscreen?
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post #442 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 04:23 PM
 
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………...
Going by the example in the video, are there any gauges, switches or controls (apart from the big bow-tie) that are accessible without using the touchscreen?
No gauges except onscreen. Door opener on door interior ledge, also window switches I believe — conventional. Could not see any in the video for exterior mirror adjustment — in the model 3 you bring up onscreen but use thumb wheels on steering wheel for adjustment — not sure what the function of the oblong areas on the Roadster steering do — could be thumb wheel replacements.
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post #443 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 09:27 PM
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Silly people still defending horses.
Sure, they are quaint and a bit of a novelty but who really wants to deal with all that.

I get in my daily driver (most certainly not the interior fit, finish or feel of my 12C) and the thing knows I'm there. I step on the brake and tell it which direction I want to go. It goes without making any noise (or stink for that matter). If I'm feeling like a hoodlum, I can flat foot launch it out of garage. It will out 60 foot most anything on the road and the torque that allows it to do so is always there. When I get to where I am going, I tell it I'm done going forward by pressing the button on the end of the direction stalk, I get out and I walk away. If the ground is flat and I'm lazy, I just get out and the thing figures out I'm done.

Now let's contrast that with my old pig clunker M5 with its wonderful interior (by Tesla standards), lovely leather smell and that something quintessentially BMW that really seems to piss off Porsche drivers. I think my last one actually unlocked the door by the time I got to it without having to fish around in my pocket for a key. I think I still had to put the key in some kind of hole and rotate it to get the thing to come to life or at least fish around for some button that had to be pressed. Dang it stunk while the start enrichment circuit fed the fuel to it to wake it up. All the while the air pump was a whirling and the cat was struggling to post combust the extra fuel. Hang around a bit. It is not as bad as the Mac for calling no joy when you try to drive it too soon but it will complain. On a good day, it is reasonably smooth in the car while the wakes up. Most days it just sits there vibrating and spitting from time to time. Oh, the OT has moved off the peg yippee; I can now poke along slowly for a mile or so least I take a chance of spinning a bearing. If I'm lucky, it will be warmed up and I can take a stab or two at the throttle before I actually get to my destination.

And about that stab, I sure hope I do it at the right time. If you do it just after it selects the next gear up, well, that requires even more time than is normally required for the torque demand pedal to convince the ECU that you really do want to accelerate so that it will have a conversation with the throttle butterfly which will then invite air molecules to consider making their way into the combustion chamber. If you do not know any better, and most of you likely do not, this happens instantaneously. Those that have lived with a performance BeV know better. Even if your timing is good, there is all that noise, stink vibration and jerking around as that motor figures out how to get in just the right position that it can make some power. If you ask tooooo much of it for available traction, well then that just starts a whole new conversation about how much to retard this or restrict that followed by an eternity for the restriction to happen and then unhappen.

I could go on here but you likely get the point.

Sure, Tesla is not like other cars. We've already shredded the interior. As for the rest, good riddens. You do not need to jump through all the hoops to get the darn thing to just drive. Computer guys looked at the problem and said "yea, I know most drivers need all this crap to feel at home but screw them, it does not need to be there and we are not going to put it there" or something similar. It is attitude. I get it if you do not like it. That's cool. But there was a method to their madness and it kinda makes sense to me.

I own both (BeV and ICE). I like both. Horses for courses and there is simply nothing like large amounts of always on demand torque to make a daily drive fun especially if you can use all of it without making much noise and getting busted. Even with all that, it will never be a Mac
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post #444 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 09:41 PM
 
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Yep, makes a lot of sense to have a "Roadster" sports car that drives itself.
At least Tesla are consistent - they continue to produce vehicles designed by teenagers in Palo Alto bedrooms. Wonder what they'll do when they grow up? Let's hope it has nothing to do with automobiles.
Did you look @cioman posting on another thread? 14 minutes in ..

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post #445 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 10:09 PM
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Did you look @cioman posting on another thread? 14 minutes in ..

Yes, and I thought the moderator made a particularly idiotic point. Why would the popularity of smart, microprocessor-based watches "mean the death of" elegant or complicated classic watches? People don't wear expensive watches to find out what time it is, or to find out anything else. They're jewellery.

Re autonomous vehicles, the issue for car lovers is not whether AVs will destroy the market for real cars. The issue is whether the advent of AVs will induce politically-correct politicians to mandate AVs and ban real cars.
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post #446 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 10:26 PM
 
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Yes, and I thought the moderator made a particularly idiotic point. Why would the popularity of smart, microprocessor-based watches "mean the death of" elegant or complicated classic watches? People don't wear expensive watches to find out what time it is, or to find out anything else. They're jewellery.

Re autonomous vehicles, the issue for car lovers is not whether AVs will destroy the market for real cars. The issue is whether the advent of AVs will induce politically-correct politicians to mandate AVs and ban real cars.
When we did the first digital watch designs I was convinced it was the end of analog watches — the accuracy and digital display (first LED followed by LCD … ) giving precise crystal controlled time seemed irresistible. The problem was that people didn't just use watches to tell the time - they also used them to get a quick approximate read of how much time they had left to an appointment — the analog display makes it much easier to read/see that you have eg 35 minutes to go — geeks could do in head subtraction but most people prefer the analog view. That of course is separate from the jewelry issue ….

On the AV's it is not the politicians mandates so much as it is the young will start using cars earlier and not see the point in getting a license for track driving …. sort of like when auto transmission became available ….
Children delivered to school by robo car will not get the visual driving tuition that we experienced as youngsters.

Also you leave safety out of your discussion — when it is proven that AV's are safer and involved in fewer accidents then that will also be a factor in insurance costs etc
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Last edited by eMcL; 04-28-2019 at 11:04 PM.
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post #447 of 743 Old 04-28-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Computer guys looked at the problem and said "yea, I know most drivers need all this crap to feel at home but screw them, it does not need to be there and we are not going to put it there" or something similar. It is attitude. I get it if you do not like it. That's cool. But there was a method to their madness and it kinda makes sense to me.
The computer guys looked at the problem of getting from A to B and thought they had a better way of achieving it. In that sense EVs and AVs are progress.
The flaw in their "solution" is a complete failure to recognise that, for many people, driving can be a source of stimulation and satisfaction. Some of us drive not merely because we need to get from A to B, but we care about how we get from A to B, and other times we don't even care where we're going, so long as we are driving.
The same thing happened a hundred years ago. Henry Ford said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'". He may have been right, but the fact was that some people actually loved to ride horses for its own sake, and their great-grandchildren feel the same way today.
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post #448 of 743 Old 04-29-2019, 03:23 AM
 
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Aren't you hoping for/expecting the company to go bust first, and then perhaps a real company will come along to pick up the few worthwhile scraps?
someting like that, expecting is probably a better word. I dont hope, Elon and tesla has still done amazing things.
scraps, - Technology, Brand, thinking outside the box when it comes to interior design, upgrading a car like a PC, i do think there a more than a few worthwhile scraps....
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post #449 of 743 Old 04-29-2019, 03:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lolachampcar View Post
Silly people still defending horses.
Sure, they are quaint and a bit of a novelty but who really wants to deal with all that.

I get in my daily driver (most certainly not the interior fit, finish or feel of my 12C) and the thing knows I'm there. I step on the brake and tell it which direction I want to go. It goes without making any noise (or stink for that matter). If I'm feeling like a hoodlum, I can flat foot launch it out of garage. It will out 60 foot most anything on the road and the torque that allows it to do so is always there. When I get to where I am going, I tell it I'm done going forward by pressing the button on the end of the direction stalk, I get out and I walk away. If the ground is flat and I'm lazy, I just get out and the thing figures out I'm done.

Now let's contrast that with my old pig clunker M5 with its wonderful interior (by Tesla standards), lovely leather smell and that something quintessentially BMW that really seems to piss off Porsche drivers. I think my last one actually unlocked the door by the time I got to it without having to fish around in my pocket for a key. I think I still had to put the key in some kind of hole and rotate it to get the thing to come to life or at least fish around for some button that had to be pressed. Dang it stunk while the start enrichment circuit fed the fuel to it to wake it up. All the while the air pump was a whirling and the cat was struggling to post combust the extra fuel. Hang around a bit. It is not as bad as the Mac for calling no joy when you try to drive it too soon but it will complain. On a good day, it is reasonably smooth in the car while the wakes up. Most days it just sits there vibrating and spitting from time to time. Oh, the OT has moved off the peg yippee; I can now poke along slowly for a mile or so least I take a chance of spinning a bearing. If I'm lucky, it will be warmed up and I can take a stab or two at the throttle before I actually get to my destination.

And about that stab, I sure hope I do it at the right time. If you do it just after it selects the next gear up, well, that requires even more time than is normally required for the torque demand pedal to convince the ECU that you really do want to accelerate so that it will have a conversation with the throttle butterfly which will then invite air molecules to consider making their way into the combustion chamber. If you do not know any better, and most of you likely do not, this happens instantaneously. Those that have lived with a performance BeV know better. Even if your timing is good, there is all that noise, stink vibration and jerking around as that motor figures out how to get in just the right position that it can make some power. If you ask tooooo much of it for available traction, well then that just starts a whole new conversation about how much to retard this or restrict that followed by an eternity for the restriction to happen and then unhappen.

I could go on here but you likely get the point.

Sure, Tesla is not like other cars. We've already shredded the interior. As for the rest, good riddens. You do not need to jump through all the hoops to get the darn thing to just drive. Computer guys looked at the problem and said "yea, I know most drivers need all this crap to feel at home but screw them, it does not need to be there and we are not going to put it there" or something similar. It is attitude. I get it if you do not like it. That's cool. But there was a method to their madness and it kinda makes sense to me.

I own both (BeV and ICE). I like both. Horses for courses and there is simply nothing like large amounts of always on demand torque to make a daily drive fun especially if you can use all of it without making much noise and getting busted. Even with all that, it will never be a Mac
I think you M5 was broken if it was that smelly from inside the car and so slow to react, could just be because it was a BMW however! (easy there thats a joke, put away the Tesla branded taser)

Im not 'defending horses' Ive put down my interest for a Taycan land yacht in the hope they make the car actually fun to drive. I did have fun in the RWD Model3 in the snow...just no interest in spending that much money on a car (Model S) that feels half finished.
I personally dont care much about the self driving thing, I think by the time there is a proper system out there that I would trust to take my hands and eyes away from the road, with my kids in the car, likely we will have little choice in what we drive ourselves, so my focus is trying to get as much fill for the joy of driving even in day to day commuting, while I can.

Last edited by PieGuy; 04-29-2019 at 04:10 AM.
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post #450 of 743 Old 04-29-2019, 05:38 PM
 
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