Who no McLaren road racing? - McLaren Life
 9Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 03-07-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Scalpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Wild West LA, California
Posts: 635
Who no McLaren road racing?

On to another disappointment, and perhaps one that the insightful forum members here can illuminate: McLaren, as most of you know, competed simultaneously in CanAm and F1 under Bruce's leadership. There has been no ongoing effort other than F1. GT racing validates the car's performance relative to its peers. The online reporting from track days, while entertaining, isn't helpful due to the obvious differences in car setup, driver skill, etc etc.
So, while Ferrari, Lamborghini Corvette, NSX, MB, and Bentley, among others, compete in GT racing, there are no factory supported McLaren teams. Yes, there is one team, but it's really not a factory-involved effort like the others, and IMO, it's a shame that there isn't. If you read the McLaren promo materials and watch the videos that accompany the cars and talk the talk, you should wonder why they won't walk the walk like other enthusiast sporting marques and promote racing. I'd love to see them on the tour. Any idea why they won't? It most certainly isn't about not having money to support a team.
Scalpel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 03-07-2019, 08:13 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Los Altos (San Francisco Bay Area)
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
It most certainly isn't about not having money to support a team.
I like watching racing as much as the next person, but they're a business, so look to maximise profit. If they thought that it would bring in more than it cost, and didn't impact them in other ways, I expect that they'd do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
Their annual revenue is enough to provide the resource for engine development.
And now another team. What else do you want them to do? (It's profit that would pay for things, not revenue)

They keep producing good cars, which is already quite an achievement, IMO. Anything more is icing, of which I expect there will be some more eventually. F1 is already quite an investment, and has fed technology back.

Last edited by rnixon; 03-07-2019 at 08:17 PM.
rnixon is online now  
post #3 of 26 Old 03-07-2019, 09:18 PM
isv
Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
GT racing validates the car's performance relative to its peers. .
No it really doesn't. BoP exists for a very good reason. The GT race cars in many cases are so different from their homologation road models they might as well be entirely different cars.

And Merc GT3/GT4 are customer only cars I believe. Black Falcon obviously has very close links with Mercedes running the AMG GT3 in VLN but they are not the works Mercedes team.
isv is online now  
 
post #4 of 26 Old 03-07-2019, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Scalpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Wild West LA, California
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnixon View Post
I like watching racing as much as the next person, but they're a business, so look to maximise profit. If they thought that it would bring in more than it cost, and didn't impact them in other ways, I expect that they'd do it.


And now another team. What else do you want them to do? (It's profit that would pay for things, not revenue)

They keep producing good cars, which is already quite an achievement, IMO. Anything more is icing, of which I expect there will be some more eventually. F1 is already quite an investment, and has fed technology back.
McLaren's profit, not gross revenue, in 2017 was over $86 million dollars. Enough, I think, to support a GT team. I'd like to see them in GT racing. All I'm hearing are excuses as to why they're not doing it, not any data that would show why it's not feasible. I've gone to F1, group 6, and CanAm racing since I was a kid, and love it. Personally, therefore, I'm disappointed that my vehicle of choice right now is built by a company without a sporting, competitive nature beyond F1, that showcases their sports cars. I guess, from the responses I'm seeing, that no one else feels that way.
Scalpel is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 03-07-2019, 11:43 PM
isv
Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
McLaren's profit, not gross revenue, in 2017 was over $86 million dollars. Enough, I think, to support a GT team.
From the Mclaren Group Limited Annual reports and consolidated financial reports as of 31 Dec 2017

""" The net result for 2017 is a loss after tax of 66m """
isv is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 12:12 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Los Altos (San Francisco Bay Area)
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
McLaren's profit, not gross revenue, in 2017 was over $86 million dollars. Enough, I think, to support a GT team. I'd like to see them in GT racing. All I'm hearing are excuses as to why they're not doing it, not any data that would show why it's not feasible.
What's their ROI? Would it increase it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
Personally, therefore, I'm disappointed that my vehicle of choice right now is built by a company without a sporting, competitive nature beyond F1, that showcases their sports cars. I guess, from the responses I'm seeing, that no one else feels that way.
I understand, but it didn't stop you from buying one. Would you give them more money if they did?
rnixon is online now  
post #7 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 03:57 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 9
I'm a race fan also.... and I like rooting for the Car/Brand I own, or as a kid I liked.... but honestly McLaren has absolutely nothing to prove in my eyes at all.

The fact is they make something like the 720 that is so monstrous right out of the door, with so much performance that they have nothing to prove on the track. That car is made for those who want the best a street supercar can offer, and aside from McLarens seemingly continual niggling issues with stuff breaking, that is the car I would get and I wouldn't care if it won any Race Series. It dominates in its domain for the Super Cars, it kills it in drag racing, Track Days, and Street show-off stuff.... Whats to prove on the track? If it failed on the track then that's the teams fault.... all of the go-fast trick-shit has trickled down to that car so don't worry about Racing, your getting the best in that domain and Racing would not improve anything for that car...except more bragging rights.

On the other hand I do love seeing the McLarens at IMSA... so I would like to see them racing too. I just don't care if they don't.
Truth is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 04:59 AM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Scalpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Wild West LA, California
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnixon View Post
What's their ROI? Would it increase it?


I understand, but it didn't stop you from buying one. Would you give them more money if they did?
Missing my point, but it shows that I'm in the minority here. Make no mistake, I love the car for what it is; much better IMO on the twisties around here than the Lambo and Ferrari I drove. But I wish they'd support GT racing for those of us who do watch it and would love to have McLaren as part of it. It's not about ROI at all, it's about passion for racing, the best example of which is Ferrari. They don't NEED to race in GT competition, and if they didn't, people with your perspective would still buy them. It's about their heritage and competitive culture. That's all. McLaren seems to have turned its back on its heritage and Bruce's enthusiasm for road racing. But that's my opinion. Doesn't make me love my car any less.
Scalpel is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 05:23 AM
InnerCircle
 
720sforme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 644
Garage
McLaren is lucky to continue to be able to participate in F1 as a private company. At some point, they will need to go public to raise more capital to really take it to the next level. Don't get me wrong, they can continue to prod along but it is going to take considerably longer without a big up front infusion of cash.

Remember, they just sold their 5000th car in May 2018. Also remember, they made a huge investment when they brought their carbon fiber chassis manufacturing in-house back in Feb 2017.

So I think they have their priorities in line and I like their focus on Bruce's F1 passion as their primary racing endeavor. So I don't think you are in the minority, just a different interpretation.

Phil

_____________________________________________
2019 Porsche Cayenne S
2018 Porsche GT2RS
2018 McLaren 720S
720sforme is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 05:25 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Los Altos (San Francisco Bay Area)
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
Missing my point, but it shows that I'm in the minority here. Make no mistake, I love the car for what it is; much better IMO on the twisties around here than the Lambo and Ferrari I drove. But I wish they'd support GT racing for those of us who do watch it and would love to have McLaren as part of it. It's not about ROI at all, it's about passion for racing, the best example of which is Ferrari. They don't NEED to race in GT competition, and if they didn't, people with your perspective would still buy them. It's about their heritage and competitive culture. That's all. McLaren seems to have turned its back on its heritage and Bruce's enthusiasm for road racing. But that's my opinion. Doesn't make me love my car any less.
I agree that McLaren appear to be engineering focused, and lacking a passion for motor sport. If you want to see them race more, then I'm sure that numbers could persuade them. If you want to see the passion for it, I'm not sure that you'll get anywhere.

Yes, it would be nice if they had real passion for motor sport, and justified doing as much as they could afford, although the money would have to be diverted from other uses. That's not going to happen when a company has several large shareholders that don't race. I'm happy with an engineering-obsessed company designing cars, and the drivers adding the passion.

Last edited by rnixon; 03-08-2019 at 05:27 AM.
rnixon is online now  
post #11 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 08:20 AM
isv
Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnixon View Post
I agree that McLaren appear to be engineering focused, and lacking a passion for motor sport.

Yes, it would be nice if they had real passion for motor sport, and justified doing as much as they could afford, although the money would have to be diverted from other uses. That's not going to happen when a company has several large shareholders that don't race.
I genuinely don't get why you would think Mclaren had no 'real passion for motorsport'. They have made GT3 racing cars available for customers since the 12c GT3 all the way through to the 720 GT3 now. I repeat my earlier post - results in GT class racing has very little to do with the actual merits of the road cars they are supposed to be based on and actually where they are considerably closer to the road cars (GT4) Mclaren do have a car available for that too in the 570 GT4 (slapped on with 100+kg of ballast on top of engine restrictors).

Ok one could argue Mclaren are lacking a GTE class racer to compete at Le Mans but as things stand, fuel efficiency isn't favouring the Mclaren engine and the ACO isn't going to do them any BoP favours not being a large powerful manufacturer. At current LMP1 hybrid budgets of well in excess of €100m I don't think anyone can reasonably fault Mclaren for not trying to break into that and Zak Brown has repeatedly expressed an interest in the prospective new LMP1 class with supposedly lower costs being proposed.
Mikeyb and A West like this.
isv is online now  
post #12 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 08:58 AM
Owner
Owner
 
Mikeyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scalpel View Post
On to another disappointment, and perhaps one that the insightful forum members here can illuminate: McLaren, as most of you know, competed simultaneously in CanAm and F1 under Bruce's leadership. There has been no ongoing effort other than F1. GT racing validates the car's performance relative to its peers. The online reporting from track days, while entertaining, isn't helpful due to the obvious differences in car setup, driver skill, etc etc.
So, while Ferrari, Lamborghini Corvette, NSX, MB, and Bentley, among others, compete in GT racing, there are no factory supported McLaren teams. Yes, there is one team, but it's really not a factory-involved effort like the others, and IMO, it's a shame that there isn't. If you read the McLaren promo materials and watch the videos that accompany the cars and talk the talk, you should wonder why they won't walk the walk like other enthusiast sporting marques and promote racing. I'd love to see them on the tour. Any idea why they won't? It most certainly isn't about not having money to support a team.
some odd comments here.

think you need to distinguish between GT3/4 and GTE...

GTE is often the factories themselves ... porsche, ford, aston, ferrari... etc.. these are factory efforts with factory drivers... Bentley, Lamborghini, Honda, do not have factory GTE cars... mclaren have looked at it a lot, the senna GTR could easily have been a GTE in my view..

the reason i think that mclaren hasn't committed to GTE is because they would like to win Le Mans outright... which a GTE car will never do.. so they're heavily involved with the ACO about what the top class of the WEC will look like going forward.. equally am sure that they don't want to do both LMP1 (or whatever it becomes) and GTE on grounds of cost...

GT3/4 is much more customer racing, where the factories produce the car but then the cars are run by teams that are independent of the factories... this is supposedly to make it more interesting for the independent teams as running against a full factory team is unlikely to produce a positive result.. in practice of course the line is very hazy, with the factories often being heavily involved, supplying technical assistance etc... AF corse is a good example of an almost factory team, and M sport likewise with Bentley... garage 59 was to all intents and purposes was the mclaren factory team, but for now mclaren prefer to be a hands off manufacturer in GT3...

as regards the comment about mclaren being a tech company first and a race company second, i couldn't disagree more... they are still a race company foremost.. even if they are much more diverse than they once were.. the Sheikh and Mansour are passionate about racing and have been involved for a good deal of time.. just becuase Ron is no longer there doesn't mean to say the ethos of the company has changed, even if you can understand that Ron was always about F1.. they're doing Indy for the first time in a very long time this year, just in case that little point was missed..

if the climate is right, i think you'll see mclaren do a full factory attempt on the WEC and le mans, but i don't think that that climate has yet presented itself..
A West likes this.
Mikeyb is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 10:10 AM
InnerCircle
Owner
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnixon View Post
I agree that McLaren appear to be engineering focused, and lacking a passion for motor sport. If you want to see them race more, then I'm sure that numbers could persuade them. If you want to see the passion for it, I'm not sure that you'll get anywhere.

Yes, it would be nice if they had real passion for motor sport, and justified doing as much as they could afford, although the money would have to be diverted from other uses. That's not going to happen when a company has several large shareholders that don't race. I'm happy with an engineering-obsessed company designing cars, and the drivers adding the passion.
I must disagree that McLaren lack a passion for motor sport.
At this point the shareholders are paying out of their own pockets a good chunk of the F1 budget. They are building an Indycar team under new hire Bob Fernley. Of the two major shareholders, one has been funding the racing team (starting with the TAG-Porsche engines) continuously since 1982, and the other has been funding the Bahrain Grand Prix since 2004. One visit to MTC makes clear how much the company's racing heritage means to it.

In the last decade the company has broadened its activities to make it more sustainable than a Formula One racing team alone can be (we have seen how well being "a Formula One racing team alone" has worked for Williams, Sauber, and Force India), but, just as with Ferrari and Porsche and unlike with Lambo and Aston, racing remains at the heart of the organisation.
Mikeyb likes this.
New Britain is online now  
post #14 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
Owner
 
Scalpel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Wild West LA, California
Posts: 635
@ Mikeyb, since you obviously have the best perspective on this, please correct me if I'm wrong: I thought that, since there are amateur classes in both GT3 and GT4, that factory involvement with mechanics, parts and race prep was present in all but the amateur divisions. Perhaps the distinction is only whether or not the drivers are full-time professionals? And if so, why is there only one team that I've noticed in any series that fields a McLaren? Is it because there's too much difficulty getting parts or making repairs? Thanks for your insights.

Last edited by Scalpel; 03-08-2019 at 01:25 PM.
Scalpel is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 03-08-2019, 02:51 PM
 
Twinscroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 273
McLaren Scottsdale had their car out at Inde Motorsports last weekend. It was a three day event for McLaren and other brand owners. They also brought out cars to rent.
Was a great time.
CJ and his team are great people.
Here is two photos from their IG account mclarenparts
Attached Images
  
Twinscroll is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the McLaren Life forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No spare tire what do you do for road trips? New2McLaren McLaren Owners Car club 6 01-28-2019 05:03 AM
No Lift? No Problem - Mercedes G63 on ANRKY Wheels & Nitto Tires by Wheels Boutique WheelsBoutique Other Road Cars (SLR, M6GT, M81) 0 11-29-2018 03:44 PM
No HomeLink? No Problem jshgldstn McLaren 570S 4 01-26-2017 07:49 PM
McLaren P1 -- No 'Ring Time (and please no B.S.) nh4 McLaren P1, F1 95 11-19-2013 07:19 AM
No P1 and No La Ferrari at Frankfurt Wtdoom McLaren Lounge 24 09-11-2013 07:01 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome