Formula 1, 2019 - Page 20 - McLaren Life
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post #286 of 861 Old 03-07-2019, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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grandpx.news
Renault to ‘talk to McLaren about B team alliance
Andrew Maitland
March 7, 2019
Cyril Abiteboul says Renault will not be joining the “crazy arms race” in F1.

Auto Motor und Sport reports that while 1600 employees work at Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull-Honda respectively, Renault has just 1200 at Enstone and Viry.

“We now have the operation we decided to have,” team boss Abiteboul said.

“What we did not realise back then was that some had begun this crazy arms race, particularly Ferrari and Mercedes. That’s a different sport — a different universe.

“Our plan was to operate at the level of the top teams. But they have continued to grow at almost our pace and with such crazy numbers that we cannot and do not want to go with them,” he added.

Not only that, each of the top three teams now has what could be described as ‘B teams’. Ferrari has Haas and Alfa Romeo, Red Bull has Toro Rosso and Mercedes is moving closer to Racing Point.

“Haas created a precedent that is difficult to go back on now,” said Abiteboul. “For me, there is the before Haas and after Haas eras. It changed formula one, possibly forever. Ten teams has become four or five.

“That’s something we did not think about in our strategy. Soon, you will not be able to win if you don’t have a B team.

“Before I can beat Ferrari, I first have to beat Haas. And the harder that is, the harder it is to get more prize money or sponsors.

“We see this situation as very serious and it’s not just a problem for Renault, but for anyone who cannot afford this model.

“I don’t know how to stop this arms race, and these satellite teams are a part of that. The FIA must recognise it,” he added.

In fact, Abiteboul sees the situation so seriously for Renault that he declares: “We do not want to be a part of a formula one like that.”

The Frenchman even thinks the planned budget cap for 2021 and beyond will not help.

“Actually it’s the opposite,” said Abiteboul. “If you have less money and resources available, one team can concentrate on the aerodynamics and the other on the chassis. It will make these alliances fantastic.

“If you are isolated like us, there is no chance.”

Asked why Renault can’t just join the party by making McLaren its ‘B team’, he answered: “Because we are equal teams. Who will be the king and who will be the slave?

“Perhaps we will have to talk to McLaren at some point, but this alliance could never be at the level of Ferrari and Haas, Mercedes and Racing Point, Red Bull and Toro Rosso.”
https://grandpx.news/renault-to-talk...team-alliance/
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post #287 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 08:48 AM
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Interesting article about the prospective new rules I thought if anyone is interested

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47422390

I still think they are missing a trick if they don't focus on the tyres as well. Pirelli should be given the mandate to make a tyre that the tems can drive reasonably hard on for a certain number of laps rather than have to go about nursing the cars at X pace to ensure the tyre lasts to the optimum pit window.
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post #288 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 01:53 PM
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Interesting article about the prospective new rules I thought if anyone is interested

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47422390

I still think they are missing a trick if they don't focus on the tyres as well. Pirelli should be given the mandate to make a tyre that the tems can drive reasonably hard on for a certain number of laps rather than have to go about nursing the cars at X pace to ensure the tyre lasts to the optimum pit window.
Yes, a good, but simplistic, overview. If you haven't read it, Newey's "How To Build A Car" is a must read.
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post #289 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Interesting article about the prospective new rules I thought if anyone is interested
Yes. The idea of having a cleaner aero wake that has less negative impact on a following car is of course good. We could also apply the same reasoning to the amount of mud that a four wheel drive off road vehicle should be allowed to throw up in the face of a following race vehicle. And while we are at it the amount of windshield washer spray …. oh I'm losing focus here! Any way rather than having FIA mandate the how it should be done ie wing sizes, heights etc my preference would be for limits placed on the amount of disturbed air and positions of the wake vortices. F1 vehicles could then be wind tunnel tested/checked for conformity to a standard envelop. ie Better to allow the teams to innovate the aero wake solutions than to have Symonds/Brawn dictated solutions.

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I still think they are missing a trick if they don't focus on the tyres as well. Pirelli should be given the mandate to make a tyre that the tems can drive reasonably hard on for a certain number of laps rather than have to go about nursing the cars at X pace to ensure the tyre lasts to the optimum pit window.
Maybe. On tires the current idea seems to be provide a range of tire choices to the teams and mandate that a tire grade change must be made — this to break things up by forcing the pit stop on all teams and introducing the randomness of a flag interrupted event. Tire nursing strategy seems inherent in any random event based system. Guess in the interests of an I got lucky win. Less appealing to purist racers I guess ….
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post #290 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 03:39 PM
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Maybe. On tires the current idea seems to be provide a range of tire choices to the teams and mandate that a tire grade change must be made — this to break things up by forcing the pit stop on all teams and introducing the randomness of a flag interrupted event. Tire nursing strategy seems inherent in any random event based system. Guess in the interests of an I got lucky win. Less appealing to purist racers I guess ….
It's too far towards tyre nursing though in my opinion plus I think the mandated tyre compound change mid race is daft but that's probably not so much the problem.

The issue for me is that the cars are visibly very far off their limits in the race compared to in qualifying and that's all due to not having to overheat the tyres to extend the pit stop window as far as possible on their qualifying (starting) tyre. Personally I want to see cars being driven at their limits as much as possible. Pirelli could do so by making tyres that lasted while being driven at optimum pace up to X laps and just bias it slightly by making the tyre used that would require more stops theoretically faster. ie the 2 stop tyre would be say 10 seconds faster over the course of the race than the 1 stop tyre, a 3 stop tyre would be another say 5-10 seconds faster than the 2 stop tyre. But the point being that the drivers aren't afraid to try to drive the car reasonably hard.

Look at fastest race laps vs qualifying, apart from the occasional front runner (kimi usually!) who just wants to take fastest lap for the heck of it, the front runners are in generally way off their qualifying laps. Narrowing that gap would provide for a much better spectacle imo.
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post #291 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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It's too far towards tyre nursing though in my opinion plus I think the mandated tyre compound change mid race is daft but that's probably not so much the problem.

The issue for me is that the cars are visibly very far off their limits in the race compared to in qualifying and that's all due to not having to overheat the tyres to extend the pit stop window as far as possible on their qualifying (starting) tyre. Personally I want to see cars being driven at their limits as much as possible. Pirelli could do so by making tyres that lasted while being driven at optimum pace up to X laps and just bias it slightly by making the tyre used that would require more stops theoretically faster. ie the 2 stop tyre would be say 10 seconds faster over the course of the race than the 1 stop tyre, a 3 stop tyre would be another say 5-10 seconds faster than the 2 stop tyre. But the point being that the drivers aren't afraid to try to drive the car reasonably hard.

Look at fastest race laps vs qualifying, apart from the occasional front runner (kimi usually!) who just wants to take fastest lap for the heck of it, the front runners are in generally way off their qualifying laps. Narrowing that gap would provide for a much better spectacle imo.
Yes on your tire points. However a big factor in the difference in driving qualifying to race is due to the race limits on fuel and limits on energy harvesting.

So the emphasis comes down to qualifying being the most important part of the race. The race itself is an economy run …. with a tire and flag lottery

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post #292 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 04:13 PM
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Yes on your tire points. However a big factor in the difference in driving qualifying to race is due to the race limits on fuel and limits on energy harvesting.

So the emphasis comes down to qualifying being the most important part of the race. The race itself is an economy run …. with a tire and flag lottery
Don't get me started on fuel flow and economy requirements in a racing car....
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post #293 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Don't get me started on fuel flow and economy requirements in a racing car....
Yes you have shown considerable restraint on these issues in earlier posts! Boiling it all down it becomes, as you are well aware, a balance of engineering compromises within a set of constraints.
Not surprising that we chafe at the constraints and suggest alternatives ….. all part of the fun.

Suspect @New Britain has left F1 for F2 …..
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post #294 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 08:40 PM
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A good evening.
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He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

PS - nothing I say should be taken seriously but I am lucky enough to live in Woking and do get to see a lot of McLarens
Random McLaren of the day.#McLaren #RMTD
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post #295 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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A good evening.
Envy your access to F1 commentary ….
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post #296 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 09:04 PM
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For those who weren't aware of this, Netflix is airing the really excellent 10-part F1 documentary, "Drive to Survive" as of today. It follows the 2018 season.
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post #297 of 861 Old 03-08-2019, 09:30 PM
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Envy your access to F1 commentary ….
Haha! I’ve been to talks by John Barnard and Steve Nichols at Brooklands in the past few months, but they are hardly up t date.

Tonight was organised by MotorSport magazine. I was lucky t get a ticket, there were only about 100 of us there and they sold out very quickly.
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He who asks a question looks foolish for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask a question remains foolish forever.

PS - nothing I say should be taken seriously but I am lucky enough to live in Woking and do get to see a lot of McLarens
Random McLaren of the day.#McLaren #RMTD
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post #298 of 861 Old 03-09-2019, 09:23 AM
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Looks like Paddy Lowe gone ….

Williams chief Paddy Lowe takes 'leave' from Formula 1 team
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...formula-1-team

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47476566
More on Williams

https://www.omologatowatches.com/blo...-edge-williams

Not a big fan of Peter Windsor especially from his time as the mouthpiece of bernie on F1racing magazine but an interesting article nevertheless.
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post #299 of 861 Old 03-09-2019, 11:00 AM
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Yes you have shown considerable restraint on these issues in earlier posts! Boiling it all down it becomes, as you are well aware, a balance of engineering compromises within a set of constraints.
Not surprising that we chafe at the constraints and suggest alternatives ….. all part of the fun.

Suspect @New Britain has left F1 for F2 …..
I am more interested in racing competitions than in spending competitions.
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post #300 of 861 Old 03-09-2019, 01:08 PM
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The new Netflix show Drive to Survive is incredible, my perfect show. The production value is through the roof. Too bad Merc and Ferrari didn’t participate. I highly recommend checking it out.


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